New road bike. Rim or disc?

Hi all. I’m getting a new bike. Currently have a giant defy that’s a couple of years old.

I am in Dublin City so the majority of “hilly” rides would be as far as the sally gap, through enniskerry.

I don’t go particularly fast going down hill and if there’s any rain due I would head off on a flat route around balbriggan / skerries way.

I’m looking at a carbon bike with ultegra group set for rim

Or with ultegra crankset, cassette levers etc, but that comes with 105 disc brakes.

The disc bike comes in a little bit more expensive.

Is there anyone on here that does similar cycles and what would be suited best for what I’ve described?

Many thanks

ted1

I’m a fan of discs. Much better performance especially if wet.

You won’t get Rim Wear so your wheels will last longer , effectively meaning that the extra you pay is recouped by not having to replace wheels.

Deano12345

barrier86 wrote: »

Hi all. I’m getting a new bike. Currently have a giant defy that’s a couple of years old.

I am in Dublin City so the majority of “hilly” rides would be as far as the sally gap, through enniskerry.


Is there anyone on here that does similar cycles and what would be suited best for what I’ve described?

Many thanks

I do a good bit of my cycling out in Enniskerry, on both rim and disc brake bikes.

Personally I’d have more confidence in discs when decending, I’d tend to decend quite quickly even on rim brake bikes but I would normally slow down with one solid braking effort at the bottom of the decents as opposed to dragging the brake. Alloy brake tracks on a rim feel pretty good compared to my discs in my opinion, the modulation with the discs is better, as is wet weather performance.

Generally disc brake bikes have better clearance for larger tires and you won’t be wearing the brake surfaces as mentioned above.

With regards to specs, even the 105 hydraulic’s are very very good!

chuck eastwood

I upgraded from my 4 year old defy in march. Bought a Carbon felt vr4 with a hefty price reduction. First felt I've ever had but it has Shimano 105 ST-R7020, hydraulic brakes. Worlds away from rim brakes, I'm in West Wicklow so most of my rides are heading up toward the Wicklow or Sally gap. Huge difference in stopping power. They do need a little bit more care and the odd oil top up but it's very easy to do and a kit plus oil is only about €30.

Type 17

I'd agree with comments about discs having more power and modulation, but if the price is a big difference, and you won't be out in nasty weather all of the time (grit in wet weather causing rim-wear), then rims are still a decent proposition, especially if the callipers are decent quality like 105 or Ultegra.

PS: I'm approaching the end of my second set of disc pads at 9,600km's, so you do get decent km's from a set of pads (I'm 90kg and do a fair bit of fast descending). I found that I haven't needed any extra oil since setting up on day one, but that the levers do gain a little more travel towards the end of the pads' life, but it goes away when you press back the pistons and fit new pads.

eeeee

I'm a big disc fan.
They look awful, but they're great.
One finger braking in the drops downhill, there's no comparison.
Rim brakes look way better though.
Disc brakes are uglier no matter what way you spin it!

ednwireland

eeeee wrote: »

I'm a big disc fan.
They look awful, but they're great.
One finger braking in the drops downhill, there's no comparison.
Rim brakes look way better though.
Disc brakes are uglier no matter what way you spin it!

flat mounts look a lot neater now than earlier incarnations

eeeee

ednwireland wrote: »

flat mounts look a lot neater now than earlier incarnations

They are still very fugly.
Enormously effective, but ugly as sin!

chuck eastwood

eeeee wrote: »

I'm a big disc fan.
They look awful, but they're great.
One finger braking in the drops downhill, there's no comparison.
Rim brakes look way better though.
Disc brakes are uglier no matter what way you spin it!

Have to disagree with you there but I'm an engineer and love seeing the nuts and bolts of what's stopping me hitting hedges lol. Also I might have been unlucky but it's my first road bike with disc but I've had two other bikes and all have had issues that needed oil top ups after small leaks. It's the nature of the pressurised set up and if it's not built right from the get go (which my new bike wasn't) you will always have some issues but again it's very easy to top them up every few months

eeeee

Aw there's nothing like the sleek simplicity of a rim braked bike...
But I can see how an engineer would enjoy seeing lumpy mechanical appendages on things :P

iwillhtfu

In normal use ether will suffice but if you were going down the carbon or expensive wheel route I'd 100% go disc. The fact there's no wear on the rim makes the wheels basically last forever with average servicing.

Luxman

Agree about ugly disc brakes. Yeah I hear the positives about performance and not adverse to a bit of maintenance but they take the look off a bike IMO. I’m just about the purchase a new steed and am going with Sram rim brakes. I never thought to myself that I needed more stopping power using rim brakes. The disc option on my new bike would be pushing me over budget though so that’s another reason not to get them.

Thanks for the input all.

I think I am going to go disc. I do prefer the look of rim brakes but for functionality I’ll go disc!

chuck eastwood

barrier86 wrote: »

Thanks for the input all.

I think I am going to go disc. I do prefer the look of rim brakes but for functionality I’ll go disc!

Don't be put off by the look. This is the 105 set up and maybe because my frame is almost black I think it looks grand. Most importantly it's a matter of functional over fancy, even more so on a wet day coming back over the gap. Go for it and enjoy

joey100

I have the same bike with discs and rim brake. Rim brake definitely lighter but feel much more comfortable descending on the disc version. Just more control and confidence in them, but I'm not the best at descending anyway so that's probably part of it. Disc brake def heavier but have set a fair few of my best hill times on strava on it, so it's not enough to slow me down. Your probably not going to go wrong with either choice and they both have pluses.

Edited to add. Keep an eye on the reach of the bike with mechanical gearing/hydro disc brakes. I know in Shimano at least, the hoods are about 1cm longer to fit it all in, might mean changing stem out to make the bike fit. But just something to keep in mind.

Chips Lovell

I think discs on road bikes are a triumph of marketing. For road racing, the make no sense at all, and even for non-racing uses, they have little going for them.

What you have to remember is that braking force is limited by how long your tyres will maintain traction on the road. Since this happens with rim brakes, the extra force from discs is largely wasted. What you're paying for essentially is lighter touch braking.

Considering that rims brakes are cheap as a chips and easy to maintain, you're adding a lot of extra complexity to the set-up for limited benefit.

Springy Turf

The other significant difference tire width. I personally prefer rim breaks for weight and simplicity, but will probably go disc for my next bike so that I have the option to run wider, and possible knobbly tires for some spins.

onlineweb

Disc breaks 100% especially with the Irish weather.

Springy Turf

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I think discs on road bikes are a triumph of marketing. For road racing, the make no sense at all, and even for non-racing uses, they have little going for them.

If you have wider tires, breaking will also be better.

Supposedly the direct mount rim brakes are also supposed to be quite good, and allow for up to 30mm tires.

Chips Lovell

Springy Turf wrote: »

If you have wider tires, breaking will also be better.

Supposedly the direct mount calliper brakes are also supposed to be quite good, and allow for up to 30mm tires.

Correct. I've 28mm on my winter bike and 25mm on my race bike. I raced once last year on the 28s as an experiment (and got slagged for racing with mudguards). Anyway, for me difference was noticeable and I'd felt like I'd started to trade speed for comfort and grip. I'm minded to think that around 25 is the sweet spot for width.

Type 17

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I think discs on road bikes are a triumph of marketing. For road racing, the make no sense at all, and even for non-racing uses, they have little going for them.

What you have to remember is that braking force is limited by how long your tyres will maintain traction on the road. Since this happens with rim brakes, the extra force from discs is largely wasted. What you're paying for essentially is lighter touch braking.

Considering that rims brakes are cheap as a chips and easy to maintain, you're adding a lot of extra complexity to the set-up for limited benefit.

They're marketing themselves, as people try them, and are converted. In the last few years, demand for rim brake bikes has dropped sharply, and many manufacturers dropped prices on rim brake road bikes that weren't moving, and then dropped the rim option for the next model-year designs.

I'm not saying that rim brakes are rubbish or anything, just that a lot of people are migrating to discs because they are enjoying the better control and modulation, wet weather stopping power, lack of rim-wear, tyre-clearance possibilities, and the fact that they can run carbon rims without worrying about wear or pad-compatibility.

PS: Older (mostly MTB) disc brakes were complex, with DOT fluid (absorbs moisture and expands over time, causing rubbing and therefore requires regular fluid change/bleeding) and huge variations in post-mount styles and different disc-sizes, but direct mount setups with mineral oil have made hydraulic discs on road and hybrid bikes a lot easier to set up and maintain, and the spare parts are a lot less diverse/more likely to be in stock/cheaper.

reg114

barrier86 wrote: »

Hi all. I’m getting a new bike. Currently have a giant defy that’s a couple of years old.

I am in Dublin City so the majority of “hilly” rides would be as far as the sally gap, through enniskerry.

I don’t go particularly fast going down hill and if there’s any rain due I would head off on a flat route around balbriggan / skerries way.

I’m looking at a carbon bike with ultegra group set for rim

Or with ultegra crankset, cassette levers etc, but that comes with 105 disc brakes.

The disc bike comes in a little bit more expensive.

Is there anyone on here that does similar cycles and what would be suited best for what I’ve described?

Many thanks

Disc brakes all the way, they are better in the wet and safer downhill. GCN did a very good video on youtube a couple of years ago and demonstrated the difference between rim brakes and disc brakes, basically its the difference between a car hitting you and not as the distance amounted to over a car length.

Chips Lovell

Type 17 wrote: »

In the last few years, demand for rim brake bikes has dropped sharply, and many manufacturers dropped prices on rim brake road bikes that weren't moving, and then dropped the rim option for the next model-year designs.

Don't I know it. I got a new frame for a steal early in the new year. Having said that, I'm kind of resigned to rim brake frames disappearing completely over the next few years, in the same way it's now very hard to find a non-disc cyclocross frame. Then again, I got ten years out of the last race bike, so maybe by the time I go again, rim brakes will be back in fashion.

ednwireland

I have discs on my new cannondale synapse (and di2:rolleyes:). they are amazing and you dont get that aluminium slurry everywhere.

old road bike rim brakes probably only caught out a couple of times in the wet over the years.

tourer rim cantelevers ok but a pain to setup.

mtb hydraulic rim brakes amazing but finicky to setup and wear rims out. but never bled over 20 years.

iwillhtfu

Chips Lovell wrote: »

in the same way it's now very hard to find a non-disc cyclocross frame.

There's no comparison between canti brakes and disc brakes at all.

Type 17

Chips Lovell wrote: »

...I got ten years out of the last race bike, so maybe by the time I go again, rim brakes will be back in fashion.

I doubt that they'll come back on new bikes, in the same way that you don't see non-indexed gears on anything new these days.
However, you'll always be able to run rim brakes if you like - you can still buy bike stuff from the 50's to today, online - I have a 1979 Gazelle road bike with a full Dura Ace groupset, and I was still able to buy a 6-speed Shimano Uniglide (before Hyperglide) cassette for it.

Paul_Mc1988

Chips Lovell wrote: »

I think discs on road bikes are a triumph of marketing. For road racing, the make no sense at all, and even for non-racing uses, they have little going for them.

What you have to remember is that braking force is limited by how long your tyres will maintain traction on the road. Since this happens with rim brakes, the extra force from discs is largely wasted. What you're paying for essentially is lighter touch braking.

Considering that rims brakes are cheap as a chips and easy to maintain, you're adding a lot of extra complexity to the set-up for limited benefit.

In 90% of circumstances your right. But I've carbon wheels with swiss stop yellow pads and they are not great for decending in the wet. When you at 70+kph on a decent and you reach for the brake and it's not responding how it typically does it's a scary feeling . Discs are much more consistent. My next steed will definitely have discs on it.

Chips Lovell

Type 17 wrote: »

I doubt that they'll come back on new bikes, in the same way that you don't see non-indexed gears on anything new these days.

True, but we seem to have come full circle on other stuff, like bottom brackets. They all went press fit and now they're coming back around to threaded. No doubt someone will start with the rim brakes again by arguing that they're more aero or suchlike.

fat bloke

Hmmm. Ugly, heavy, expensive disc bike or pretty, lighter, cheaper rim bike...

Tis a conundrum to be sure. :pac:

Chips Lovell

Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »

But I've carbon wheels with swiss stop yellow pads and they are not great for decending in the wet. When you at 70+kph on a decent and you reach for the brake and it's not responding how it typically does it's a scary feeling

I used to use the yellow pads too and liked them but I found them very inconsistent. You'd sometimes get a pair that seemed brittle, didn't seem to brake well in wet, and left a yellow residue on the rim. I started using the Black Prince pads instead and found them to have a better bite. Still, most of the time when it's raining I'd throw an alloy clincher on the front.

Tony04

Also op if you buy a rim brake bike its probably going to lose more value if you eventually resell it second hand.

Personally I'd only be buying rim brakes for a tt or a hill climb build, two disciplines I dont really involve myself in anyway

ted1

Tony04 wrote: »

Personally I'd only be buying rim brakes for a tt or a hill climb build, two disciplines I dont really involve myself in anyway

Serious question, how do you get down from the hill?

magicbastarder

There are still brakes on a hill climb bike...

Tony04

ted1 wrote: »

Serious question, how do you get down from the hill?

5 finger braking;)

Springy Turf

Tony04 wrote: »

5 finger braking;)

I mean in fairness. Guys in the Tour de France descend extremely quickly down huge cols on rim breaks. It can be done! And really for 99% of people you don’t need to race down the hill. I personally rarely go over 50-55 kph going downhill

For me the joy of hills is trying to get up them as fast as I can.

eeeee

Springy Turf wrote: »

I mean in fairness. Guys in the Tour de France descend extremely quickly down huge cols on rim breaks. It can be done! And really for 99% of people you don’t need to race down the hill. I personally rarely go over 50-55 kph going downhill

For me the joy of hills is trying to get up them as fast as I can.

You're missing out. The real joy is flying down after struggling up the things
I'd do in excess of that on a decent descent quite regularly, and I am far, far, far from a fearless descender. This years max is 79kph I think, I must look at it again.
I do find it a perishable skill, I have had to learn to go fast again on my road bike after lockdown.
Whee!

eeeee

eeeee wrote: »

You're missing out. The real joy is flying down after struggling up the things
I'd do in excess of that on a decent descent quite regularly, and I am far, far, far from a fearless descender. This years max is 79kph I think, I must look at it again.
I do find it a perishable skill, I have had to learn to go fast again on my road bike after lockdown.
Whee!

100% on that one, found myself doing 30 rolling down a fairly long and relatively straight stretch of R road recently, that I would normally spin out on for tonnes of wheeeeeee. That kind of stuff makes me want more than 50 upfront but I'm not a happy chappie on anything steep, narrow and twisty. Flashbacks of having to cross the line to stay up with a car on coming made think twice in those situations.

as_mo_bhosca

Dísc brakes get my vote. Great modulation, way better in the wet and really handy on a sportive when someone in front of you does something stupid (usually ROK). You only have to hope the bike behind you has them then! 😂

The Buster

Another vote for discs. Changed last year and difference is amazing. I’m a bit on heavy side and they rhelped with confidence descending, especially in wet.

ted1

Springy Turf wrote: »

I mean in fairness. Guys in the Tour de France descend extremely quickly down huge cols on rim breaks. It can be done! And really for 99% of people you don’t need to race down the hill. I personally rarely go over 50-55 kph going downhill

For me the joy of hills is trying to get up them as fast as I can.

Those guys aren’t 100kg they are on closed roads, and they are at the top level of the sport

And their bikes are fixed and adjusted before each race, so every 100-200 km

Gallant_JJ

Vote here for discs. Recently upgraded, noticed a modest difference at first. I since happened to have to revert to my old rim brake bike on a wet day for a spin and found a hugely distinguishable difference. My rim brake bike has ZIPP NSW 404s, and to be honest I never found the breaking great, but after returning from riding disc brakes, they felt horrendous.

Descending with discs is a joy.

CramCycle

I have a rim and disc brake bike, if Im on the road its rim rake all the way. Who cares, I am shallow it looks better. I need functionality off road not on road, rim brakes looked after are absolutely fine and this form someone who races in a bunch at >50kmph or descends at north of 80 kmph with ease.

Mapaputsi

Interested to hear if any of you have raced on disc wheels this year and had a puncture mid-race. Couple of things spring to mind:

1. Can you easily take the disc wheel off? My MTB needs an Allen key
2. When you replace the wheel, can the caliper be misaligned leading to brake rub?

iwillhtfu

Mapaputsi wrote: »

Interested to hear if any of you have raced on disc wheels this year and had a puncture mid-race. Couple of things spring to mind:

1. Can you easily take the disc wheel off? My MTB needs an Allen key
2. When you replace the wheel, can the caliper be misaligned leading to brake rub?

I'd say it depends on what type of racing your're doing but for most racing a puncture is usually game over. Calipers shouldn't move so rub won't be an issue unless of course you grab a handful of brake lever with the wheel out then you might have an issue. The need for an allen key I'm not sure but it will probably vary with manufacturer. I know canyon have started using the quixle or whatever they call it.

Type 17

1. Depends on the through-axle you are using - some need an Allen key, some have a built-in lever for each wheel, and some bikes come with a single, removable lever that is shared between the two axles (you can leave it in one of them).
2. It's only possible if you replace the wheel slightly crooked in the drop-outs - if you lean on the bars or saddle when tightening the axle, then it's right every time.

Mapaputsi

Thanks for the feedback. I have managed to get back into the peloton on a few occasions after puncturing and a swift wheel change from the car, just want to make sure it's not game over for me if I switch to discs!

Rezident

Good thread, I am still looking for a new road bike (€1,500 - 1,750) and I found one that ticks all the boxes (light and fast), bar one: it's got rim brakes:

Giant TCR Advanced 2:
http://belfieldbikeshop.com/bike-details/Giant-tcr-advanced-2

I have been using and loving disc brakes for the last 5 years and rim brakes feel like a downgrade from discs, especially in wet weather. I do not care about the look, I just want stopping power.

Mostly for commuting in to Dublin city centre and cycling around South Dublin, no major climbs, sometimes cycle up to the Blue Light (great views up there) but in the city centre I feel like the disc brakes have helped avoid a few collisions and I am worried about losing the stopping power.

Are rim brakes going to feel like losing that stopping power coming from disc brakes?

fat bloke

Rezident wrote: »

Good thread, I am still looking for a new road bike (€1,500 - 1,750) and I found one that ticks all the boxes (light and fast), bar one: it's got rim brakes:

Giant TCR Advanced 2:
http://belfieldbikeshop.com/bike-details/Giant-tcr-advanced-2

I have been using and loving disc brakes for the last 5 years and rim brakes feel like a downgrade from discs, especially in wet weather. I do not care about the look, I just want stopping power.

Mostly for commuting in to Dublin city centre and cycling around South Dublin, no major climbs, sometimes cycle up to the Blue Light (great views up there) but in the city centre I feel like the disc brakes have helped avoid a few collisions and I am worried about losing the stopping power.

Are rim brakes going to feel like losing that stopping power coming from disc brakes?

That's a great bike, colours are good too - bit like the Sunweb paint scheme. Discs v rims has been done to death and you have to buy and live with what you prefer yourself but for God's sake IMO if the Tour de France can be won on rim brakes then you'll surely manage to go up and down to the Blue Light.

S_D

Rim brake for me all day long.

CantGetNoSleep

Rezident wrote: »

Good thread, I am still looking for a new road bike (€1,500 - 1,750) and I found one that ticks all the boxes (light and fast), bar one: it's got rim brakes:

Giant TCR Advanced 2:
http://belfieldbikeshop.com/bike-details/Giant-tcr-advanced-2

I have been using and loving disc brakes for the last 5 years and rim brakes feel like a downgrade from discs, especially in wet weather. I do not care about the look, I just want stopping power.

Mostly for commuting in to Dublin city centre and cycling around South Dublin, no major climbs, sometimes cycle up to the Blue Light (great views up there) but in the city centre I feel like the disc brakes have helped avoid a few collisions and I am worried about losing the stopping power.

Are rim brakes going to feel like losing that stopping power coming from disc brakes?

I have a TCR disc and tbh I sometimes regret not going for the rim braked version. But it is my good bike so doesn't see rain too often.

Not sure that is the best commuter though - I'd be looking for something with bigger tires (TCR struggles with 28mm), mudguards and possibly discs