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Job - feeling trapped (covid)

  • 25-07-2020 1:16am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 18 Exaspo


    I am working in a developing country, which happens to have one of the world's strictest lockdowns due to covid.

    I left a number of months ago due to to mounting stress from living alone and being unable to leave my house. My employer discouraged this but accepted it.

    I worked remotely, it is possible for me under the condition I would return in July when I naively thought things would be better, they are not.


    My boss wants me back asap (to work from my apartment on this country). Lockdown and my ability to work face to face seem far away. Here, in Ireland, I can cycle,walk, roam enjoy my freedom,but will face difficulty finding work as a teacher.

    I'm torn between a need To complete my contract (I'll mess upso much for other teachers and students if I quit now)and between staying where I'm in nature, with family but broke. My school owe me around 6000 which I know I wont get if I leave.

    What would you so? See through one more year or cut your losses? I'm concerned about references also.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,247 ✭✭✭milli milli


    Exaspo wrote: »
    My boss wants me back asap (to work from my apartment on this country). Lockdown and my ability to work face to face seem far away. Here, in Ireland, I can cycle,walk, roam enjoy my freedom,but will face difficulty finding work as a teacher.

    What is the difference between working from your apartment in Ireland and working from your apartment in this country? Is there a legal reason (tax issues) or something else?

    Have you been working for your boss remotely in Ireland?

    Your mental health has suffered from the strict lockdown and living on your own. Did you talk to your boss about this?


  • Registered Users Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Midnight Sundance


    There's going to be plenty of subbing opportunities here in Ireland. I'd cut my losses if it were me and look after my mental health. I dont know why you can't remotely teach from here if that's what you'll have to do from over there.
    No point going around miserable and depressed. Look after your mental healty


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,033 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Agreed with the above, your mental wellbeing is most critical, you might be able to receive covid payment, if you explain your situation to welfare, then start cracking on with finding something here. I'm expecting an explosion of demand in our educational sector from this, which will be great for the country. Best of luck with things


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    I'm in your employers shoes, the pressure he is doubtlessly under to have you in the country is probably immense from higher powers. I assume you're teaching somewhere in the Far East (developing country)? He may be in a situation where he is required to have the staff in the country eg repatriation flight payments or simply to allow the school cut costs by getting rid of existing staff and hiring cheaper new staff.

    What is your contract duration and teaching role type? Would it be feasible to consider taking on your role in another country where lockdown rules have been relaxed eg Qatar, Dubai etc? You'd still be able to earn but wouldn't be in the same lockdown.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Exaspo


    As someone in my employer's position, perhaps you could advice me on the following. I checked my contract and the financial implications are very heavy if I do choose to break contract. Do you believe these penalties can be enforced even during Covid?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    Exaspo wrote: »
    As someone in my employer's position, perhaps you could advice me on the following. I checked my contract and the financial implications are very heavy if I do choose to break contract. Do you believe these penalties can be enforced even during Covid?

    Absolutely, they will be looking to save costs wherever and whenever they can. Remember your employer is 99% likely to be a for profit entity, correct me if I'm wrong. It's likely they are secretly trying to engineer the situation so that they win financially if you do not return. I find myself in a situation currently almost identical to yours and bottom line dictates what happens ultimately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Exaspo


    Thanks for the speedy response. Your perspective is uniquely helpful to me at this time. I'm assuming I can kiss goodbye to a reference from my current employer if I do leave now. Do you think this will impact my next job search? Do you imagine my explanation and justification of it due to Covid would hold power in future?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    Exaspo wrote: »
    Thanks for the speedy response. Your perspective is uniquely helpful to me at this time. I'm assuming I can kiss goodbye to a reference from my current employer if I do leave now. Do you think this will impact my next job search? Do you imagine my explanation and justification of it due to Covid would hold power in future?

    Without knowing your level, experience, location or qualifications it's hard to say...


  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Exaspo


    I have brilliant experience and would have access to great opportunities normally. My school is based in Brazil.

    Friends believe Covid is an appropriate reason to jump ship.

    I am generally very committed.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Augme


    Exaspo wrote: »
    Thanks for the speedy response. Your perspective is uniquely helpful to me at this time. I'm assuming I can kiss goodbye to a reference from my current employer if I do leave now. Do you think this will impact my next job search? Do you imagine my explanation and justification of it due to Covid would hold power in future?


    As someone with HR experience you can definitely kiss your reference goodbye and expect that excuse and justification to have a negative impact in looking for future roles.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,122 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    Exaspo wrote: »
    I have brilliant experience and would have access to great opportunities normally. My school is based in Brazil.

    Friends believe Covid is an appropriate reason to jump ship.

    I am generally very committed.

    If I was interviewing you and you said you'd jumped ship from Brazil due to Covid I'd be inclined to overlook and understand. Your 6k, is this a gratuity or outstanding salary?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,984 ✭✭✭Shelga


    Hi OP, it doesn't sound like an easy decision to make. Why does your employer need you to be sitting in your apartment in Brazil, rather than in Ireland, if you're working remotely and can work to the time difference?

    It would be easy to say just give it up, your mental health isn't worth sacrificing. Which is true, but you should also ask yourself- if you quit, are you likely to be more or less stressed in 6 months? And it's not my industry, so I'd listen to what other posters are saying and what you know yourself about how it may or may not affect your references and ability to get another job, especially in these times.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,005 ✭✭✭Tork


    How long are you working for this school?


  • Registered Users Posts: 580 ✭✭✭heretothere


    As others have asked, why can't they let you work remotely from Ireland? Also if their lockdown is so strict can you even get back into the country?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    Don't worry about the reference. You don't have to put your most recent employer down, there can be any number of reasons for that. My employer from the job before last is dead. I don't worry that their death might have an impact on my hireability!

    People who claim they "work in HR" on here and that they would never hire based on not having last employer as reference are only bullsh¡tters throwing their weight around to be big men, it shows their real world inferiority issues. The reality is that all things being equal it's an advantage for a candidate to have their previous employer, but it sounds like you have other contacts you could give them who will give you a glowing review, so if you're the stand-out candidate it won't matter at all.

    The reality is that you could not pay me any amount of money to be in Brazil right now. A very good friend from Brazil who lives here lost her mother over there at the weekend and she won't be travelling over for the funeral.

    Jobs will come and go but your health is permanent. Not to mention mental health. You'll find something, stand your ground and remember your worth. I wish you all the best and I'd love to hear how you get on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,035 ✭✭✭✭J Mysterio


    lots of teachers will be needed here when the schools reopen, I think there might be opportunites here for you. They are talking about hiring thousands from what I can see.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭Sono


    Augme wrote: »
    As someone with HR experience you can definitely kiss your reference goodbye and expect that excuse and justification to have a negative impact in looking for future roles.

    Very helpful, just what the OP wanted to read.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Augme


    Sono wrote: »
    Very helpful, just what the OP wanted to read.

    This forum is for advice. Not to lie to people just to make them feel better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,045 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    €6 k is a nice chunk of money to be passing up on. If it was me I’d probably stick it to ensure all loose end like that were sorted and another job nailed down.
    Have you tried just talking to them?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,862 ✭✭✭ Mikaela Prickly Wish


    Sono wrote: »
    Very helpful, just what the OP wanted to read.

    Also complete horse shïye


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  • Registered Users Posts: 18 Exaspo


    This is what is incredibly frustrating - there is no valid reason for needing me there. My standard of work would be higher from here with my access to a strong support network and freedom to get out into nature. It's this disregard for my wellbeing which is very upsetting, and eye opening regarding the people I should look to as 'leaders'.

    I have tried talking, and would describe the process as nothing short of emotional manipulation.

    I'm leaning towards returning, seeing it through, taking my money, reference and experience somewhere where I'm valued.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,257 ✭✭✭Sono


    Augme wrote: »
    This forum is for advice. Not to lie to people just to make them feel better.

    So tell us about your experience of people who taught abroad and left the job they were in for their own safety so and lost out on a reference as a result.

    it is not helpful to throw a comment in here without anything to back it up, if your examples are not pandemic specific they do not hold any value whatsoever.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    Augme wrote: »
    As someone with HR experience you can definitely kiss your reference goodbye and expect that excuse and justification to have a negative impact in looking for future roles.

    As someone who has dealt with lots of HR people, the OP could simply make up a reference and you HR crowd wouldn't know any different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    As someone who has dealt with lots of HR people, the OP could simply make up a reference and you HR crowd wouldn't know any different.

    Also in my experience as someone in management at a large company its not HR who does the actual hiring. HR post the ads and collect the CVs together and deal with setting up interviews and making offers but the actual process of reviewing an application is done by the manager or supervisor of what ever department they are needed for. We are hiring right now for several different departments and the only thing I get HR to check is if the person is legally able to work in Ireland. We base most of our hiring on interview and only if we are in doubt after an interview we might check references but as Heres Johnny says references are easy to fake so they aren't something I look at for every application. When I look usually I will know someone at a previous companies they worked at & check with them if needed so OP if you've got Brazil job listed and Irish job listed I'm more likely to ring the Irish job even if it was before Brazil job.


  • Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    Exaspo wrote: »
    I am working in a developing country, which happens to have one of the world's strictest lockdowns due to covid.

    I left a number of months ago due to to mounting stress from living alone and being unable to leave my house. My employer discouraged this but accepted it.

    I worked remotely, it is possible for me under the condition I would return in July when I naively thought things would be better, they are not.


    My boss wants me back asap (to work from my apartment on this country). Lockdown and my ability to work face to face seem far away. Here, in Ireland, I can cycle,walk, roam enjoy my freedom,but will face difficulty finding work as a teacher.

    I'm torn between a need To complete my contract (I'll mess upso much for other teachers and students if I quit now)and between staying where I'm in nature, with family but broke. My school owe me around 6000 which I know I wont get if I leave.

    What would you so? See through one more year or cut your losses? I'm concerned about references also.

    You seem to be getting solid advice from both a personal and career perspective.

    I just want to say don’t let your employer pressure you into going back if you are afraid to.

    As far as I know Ireland will need teachers in September and I think people will consider Covid/loss of a reference will be an understandable situation.

    If they don’t then they are problem not the type you want to work for.

    Would other teachers that you know be willing to give a reference?




  • One thing I'd also wonder OP is if there's been accruing salary payments that you haven't got, there's also a very good chance that you'll continue to face this if you stay on. It's definitely understandable that you don't want to go back. Tell the employer that you're willing to do the next 6 months from Ireland. If they refuse, take the loss. Mental and physical health takes priority.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,091 ✭✭✭Augme


    Exaspo wrote: »
    This is what is incredibly frustrating - there is no valid reason for needing me there. My standard of work would be higher from here with my access to a strong support network and freedom to get out into nature. It's this disregard for my wellbeing which is very upsetting, and eye opening regarding the people I should look to as 'leaders'.

    I have tried talking, and would describe the process as nothing short of emotional manipulation.

    I'm leaning towards returning, seeing it through, taking my money, reference and experience somewhere where I'm valued.


    At this stage it might be worth getting advice from an employment solicitor.

    Generally If you work in another country you have to follow the employnent tax laws, health and safety law and data protection in that country.

    People can't just up and leave a country and work from home in another country so there is a very valid reason why they won't allow your work from home in Ireland while your job/company is based in another country.

    Also given the various other comment dby other users it is worth noting that the background checks and screening that take place for teachers, especially secondary school teachers, will prbnaly be very thorough and nothing like what happens in most organisation/companies so it's not really that comparable. If you plan to work as a teacher back in Ireland expect to have a thorough check on your history to happen.

    Let's be honest here, how many people here would be happy with someone teaching their kid/niece/nephew if they knew that teachers last employer refused to give them a reference. It's a massive red flag and needs to be factored in when making your decision in my opinion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,471 ✭✭✭kaymin


    Augme wrote: »
    At this stage it might be worth getting advice from an employment solicitor.

    Generally If you work in another country you have to follow the employnent tax laws, health and safety law and data protection in that country.

    People can't just up and leave a country and work from home in another country so there is a very valid reason why they won't allow your work from home in Ireland while your job/company is based in another country.

    Also given the various other comment dby other users it is worth noting that the background checks and screening that take place for teachers, especially secondary school teachers, will prbnaly be very thorough and nothing like what happens in most organisation/companies so it's not really that comparable. If you plan to work as a teacher back in Ireland expect to have a thorough check on your history to happen.

    Let's be honest here, how many people here would be happy with someone teaching their kid/niece/nephew if they knew that teachers last employer refused to give them a reference. It's a massive red flag and needs to be factored in when making your decision in my opinion.

    Firstly parents would not know the background of the teachers teaching their kids.

    Secondly, principles or whoever is doing the hiring should have a bit of cop-on and empathy and appreciate the decision to cut his / her contract early was done for health reasons and not due to a lack of dedication or interest in the profession. Sometimes context is everything.

    It's also nonsense that an employee can't work from another country. You really don't know what you're talking about.

    Personally I would not go back to Brazil in the current environment. I expect pay and work conditions will be far better here. Schools will be hiring 1000s of extra teachers per news reports.


  • Registered Users Posts: 974 ✭✭✭Psychiatric Patrick


    As someone who has dealt with lots of HR people, the OP could simply make up a reference and you HR crowd wouldn't know any different.

    Always worked for me.


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