Renting land

Bikerman2019

Are there any pitfalls for a person who long term rents farmland to a farmer?

Say, a farmer rents some fields, paying every year by cheque, and it rolls on for 10 years. There would not be a written agreement.

Is there anything to consider about them making a claim for possession or anything else that should be considered?

Thanks

nuac

Mod
Sorry legal advice not given here. Subject to that and forum rules will leave open for general discussion

GerardKeating

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

There would not be a written agreement.

You could avoid this "issue" by having a written agreement perhaps?

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

Is there anything to consider about them making a claim for possession or anything else that should be considered?

Thanks

Mr Google will give you loads of articles about adverse possession in Ireland, like this one, but Google is no substitute for proper legal advice.

Losty Dublin

A neighbour of my late grandmother rented a field from her, and consequently our family for almost 100 years. There was no paper signed; it was all word of mouth with the rent duly paid in December by way of cash over a dram of whiskey and a bottle of stout. Even when both Gran and said farmer passed away the agreement held and the family the rent paid, even allowing for inflation although the whiskey and stout tradition slipped by.

At one stage they neglected to pay the rent for a few years after my Aunt died but this was purely because there was nobody handy left to drop the money to. When next they saw Mum at a locals funeral one day they ran home, grabbed the cash and paid her the rent and back monies with much mention of apologies; arrears came later by way of a Half Gill of Powers

Mind you, these were honest to the Salt country people in simple times when people were both goodly and Godly and their word was their word. These days Gran would have definitely have obtained a solicitor to do up a lease; different times....

Bikerman2019

So if theory, if it ever happened down the country, could a farmer, who has rented land yearly, for 10 or 20 years, but paid rent by cheque every year, lay claim to any such property?


Just imagining, they have cattle on in, but the land itself also contain a septic tank.


Reading this, and this, I am trying to understand what qualifies as adverse possession.

Del2005

Bikerman2019 wrote: »

So if theory, if it ever happened down the country, could a farmer, who has rented land yearly, for 10 or 20 years, but paid rent by cheque every year, lay claim to any such property?


Just imagining, they have cattle on in, but the land itself also contain a septic tank.


Reading this, and this, I am trying to understand what qualifies as adverse possession.

Adverse possession requires that the owner isn't aware of the other person using their property for 12 years.

If they are giving cheques to the owner they will have a difficult time trying to convince a court that the owner wasn't aware that they were occupying the property.

Bikerman2019

Del2005 wrote: »

Adverse possession requires that the owner isn't aware of the other person using their property for 12 years.

If they are giving cheques to the owner they will have a difficult time trying to convince a court that the owner wasn't aware that they were occupying the property.

That is the exact principle I was wondering about, thanks very much.

LawBoy2018

If they've been paying rent then there's no claim for adverse possession.

LawBoy2018

Del2005 wrote: »

Adverse possession requires that the owner isn't aware of the other person using their property for 12 years.

If they are giving cheques to the owner they will have a difficult time trying to convince a court that the owner wasn't aware that they were occupying the property.

A claim for adverse possession could potentially succeed, despite the landowner being aware that the possessor was using the land. What's more important is whether the adverse possessor had the intention to dispossess the original landowner.

Victor

Note that renting land for a number of years may entitle the tenant to a right to continue to rent that land. There is or had been a tendency for there to be 11-month leases. This should be checked with a solicitor.

Del2005

LawBoy2018 wrote: »

A claim for adverse possession could potentially succeed, despite the landowner being aware that the possessor was using the land. What's more important is whether the adverse possessor had the intention to dispossess the original landowner.

Wouldn't they have to stop paying rent for 12 years for the adverse possession though? If they are paying rent it's not adverse possession as there is a contract and the owner is aware that they are on the property.

IIRC an adverse possession claim rejected after the property owner said that they had checked the property from the road.

LawBoy2018

Del2005 wrote: »

Wouldn't they have to stop paying rent for 12 years for the adverse possession though? If they are paying rent it's not adverse possession as there is a contract and the owner is aware that they are on the property.

IIRC an adverse possession claim rejected after the property owner said that they had checked the property from the road.

Yes, absolutely. Rent = permission to use/be on the land in question.

Are you referring to Feehan v Leamy? You can contrast that case with the UK case of J.A Pye. A landowner simply being aware that somebody else is occupying their land will not sufficiently discontinue the possession. The doctrine is more complex than that.

ganmo

Long term leasing of land to a non relative is tax free so I have no idea why you wouldn't want it on paper.