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Neighbour's children damaged paintwork

  • 22-07-2020 10:10am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    Hi all,

    A group of children in my apartment block got fascinated by the way their heads changed shape as they looked at their reflections in the doors of my car.

    I went outside and all the noise the children made stopped and I saw the children sitting by the car. One or two didn't notice or care about me and kept looking at their reflection.

    Sadly, there are hand prints all over the side of the door and a host of scratches (down to the white layer under the top coat).

    I have taken photos and there is CCTV but I am just wondering has anyone else had a similar experience and what advice would you give? We are newly moved in so I do not know the who is who yet.

    It is all a bit of a pain. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 181 ✭✭ Austmcc


    bbk wrote: »
    Hi all,

    A group of children in my apartment block got fascinated by the way their heads changed shape as they looked at their reflections in the doors of my car.

    I went outside and all the noise the children made stopped and I saw the children sitting by the car. One or two didn't notice or care about me and kept looking at their reflection.

    Sadly, there are hand prints all over the side of the door and a host of scratches (down to the white layer under the top coat).

    I have taken photos and there is CCTV but I am just wondering has anyone else had a similar experience and what advice would you give? We are newly moved in so I do not know the who is who yet.

    It is all a bit of a pain. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!

    Most of the apartment buildings I've been in have signs about cars being parked at the owners risk. So I would imagine your only fall back is to identify the kids and go to their parents and try ask them to cover costs. I don't see either the kid tracing, or the conversations going well though.

    I've no experience though, just my thoughts.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭ unhappys10


    Austmcc wrote: »
    Most of the apartment buildings I've been in have signs about cars being parked at the owners risk. So I would imagine your only fall back is to identify the kids and go to their parents and try ask them to cover costs. I don't see either the kid tracing, or the conversations going well though.

    I've no experience though, just my thoughts.

    I think those signs take responsibility from the car park owner.
    Not the kids who damaged the car on cctv.

    I'd follow them up and if the parents don't cough up maybe small claims court if they cover the likes of this.
    I wouldn't be a bit worried about upsetting neighbours if they are the type to avoid paying out when their child did the damage.
    If it was my daughter I'd be paying, that's what any decent person would do.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    I wouldn't be a bit worried about upsetting neighbours if they are the type to avoid paying out when their child did the damage.
    If it was my daughter I'd be paying, that's what any decent person would do.

    That is an interesting point. As it happens, the parent of one of the children is the head of the residents association, or some type of job like that. Quite a nice and dead on person. It wasn't just her child though.

    I think you point about not being worried about upsetting if they are going to kick up a fuss about paying, or at least contributing, is one worth thinking about.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 692 ✭✭✭ unhappys10


    bbk wrote: »
    That is an interesting point. As it happens, the parent of one of the children is the head of the residents association, or some type of job like that. Quite a nice and dead on person. It wasn't just her child though.

    I think you point about not being worried about upsetting if they are going to kick up a fuss about paying, or at least contributing, is one worth thinking about.

    Hopefully they will be nice about things, if you have clear cctv footage I don't see how they can argue it wasn't them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭ Phoebas


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    Hopefully they will be nice about things, if you have clear cctv footage I don't see how they can argue it wasn't them.

    The CCTV may show the kids putting their hands on the car, but scratching the paintwork?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    Phoebas wrote: »
    The CCTV may show the kids putting their hands on the car, but scratching the paintwork?

    The scratches look like they were caused by stones or keys, and follow the fingerprints in the paint work.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭ Phoebas


    bbk wrote: »
    The scratches look like they were caused by stones or keys, and follow the fingerprints in the paint work.

    That's the difficulty you might have.
    A parent might concede that their kid inadvertently caused some damage while innocently playing with the car (I'm assuming that these kids are young if they are enjoying looking at their reflections in the paintwork?)

    But a parent might not be so willing to concede that their kid damaged your car with stones or keys unless the CCTV clearly shows it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    They could start complaining about the illegal recording of the public places on your CCTV.

    As for not being worried about annoying the neighbours. If they don't teach their children not to sit on other people's cars do you think they will stop them tormenting you when you tell them that their little darling damaged your car and you want them to pay.

    People are nice till they have to put their hands in their pockets and then their true colours come out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭ cpoh1


    What type of car are we looking at here, and what is the overall condition? Do you own the accommodation and will you be there long term?

    Living with neighbours is all about give and take, i know if i was approached about something like this i would probably pay but it is sharp enough practice to push ahead with it and would leave a lingering bad taste in my mouth. On street parking is always a risk and you will end up with bangs and bumps over time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    cpoh1 wrote: »
    What type of car are we looking at here, and what is the overall condition? Do you own the accommodation and will you be there long term?

    Living with neighbours is all about give and take, i know if i was approached about something like this i would probably pay but it is sharp enough practice to push ahead with it and would leave a lingering bad taste in my mouth. On street parking is always a risk and you will end up with bangs and bumps over time.

    Well I managed to catch the neighbours child mess with the side of the car again and I went into the parents to talk about it, and to stay calm and not get heated. The father didn't have the same style. I am not convinced he is ready to admit that his child was messing with the car. This morning, I saw the child do it. The mother was more reasonable but from both of them, there is no willingness to pay or contribute towards getting it fixed.

    The paintwork is in very good condition otherwise.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 24,692 ✭✭✭✭ Wishbone Ash


    Del2005 wrote: »
    They could start complaining about the illegal recording of the public places on your CCTV....
    I can't see how it could be illegal. Most CCTV on the front of any house/business premises will record a public area.

    There are 3 CCTV cameras on the front of my house onto the street outside. The Gardai have approached me several times for footage to assist with their inquiries but have never indicated that it was illegal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,449 ✭✭✭ ba_barabus


    bbk wrote: »
    Well I managed to catch the neighbours child mess with the side of the car again and I went into the parents to talk about it, and to stay calm and not get heated. The father didn't have the same style. I am not convinced he is ready to admit that his child was messing with the car. This morning, I saw the child do it. The mother was more reasonable but from both of them, there is no willingness to pay or contribute towards getting it fixed.

    The paintwork is in very good condition otherwise.

    I hate to say it but you're either in for a long battle or you better be prepared to eat a sh!t sandwich by the sounds of the above.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭ Phoebas


    There would be no problem with the CCTV and GDPR - it would fall into the 'legitimate interests' grounds.

    Persuading the parents to pay up is the problem, and let's face it, that's what would be needed here, because it's unlikely that this is going near an insurance company or a court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    I can't see how it could be illegal. Most CCTV on the front of any house/business premises will record a public area.

    There are 3 CCTV cameras on the front of my house onto the street outside. The Gardai have approached me several times for footage to assist with their inquiries but have never indicated that it was illegal.

    Once its recording a public place you become a data controller and GDPR applies.

    https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/cctv-home

    The Gardai don't know our laws as well as people assume.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,692 ✭✭✭✭ Wishbone Ash


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Once its recording a public place you become a data controller and GDPR applies....
    That doesn't make it illegal as stated in your previous post.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭ cpoh1


    If the parents say no then ultimately that's it without wasting a huge amount of time and effort and causing tension over something that could be resolved with a machine polish or worst case scenario a few hundred euro for a respray.

    Maybe look at where else you can park the car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,970 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    That doesn't make it illegal as stated in your previous post.

    The law says that you can't record a public place with your CCTV unless you have data control in place , where is your data policy, data controller and what valid reason do you have for recording a public place? If you are not following the law you are doing something illegal.


  • Registered Users Posts: 72,648 ✭✭✭✭ colm_mcm


    cpoh1 wrote: »

    Maybe look at where else you can park the car?

    Other than outside his gaff? Really
    cpoh1 wrote: »
    What type of car are we looking at here,
    Shouldn’t really matter


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    Del2005 wrote: »
    The law says that you can't record a public place with your CCTV unless you have data control in place , where is your data policy, data controller and what valid reason do you have for recording a public place? If you are not following the law you are doing something illegal.

    Indeed though you can be GDPR compliant quite easily, I didn't realise until today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    Phoebas wrote: »
    There would be no problem with the CCTV and GDPR - it would fall into the 'legitimate interests' grounds.

    Persuading the parents to pay up is the problem, and let's face it, that's what would be needed here, because it's unlikely that this is going near an insurance company or a court.

    Yeah, look these things happen. I was just surprised how at ease the child was at putting their hands on the car and messing around with it. They seem old enough to have a bit of cop on. Though I was surprised even further at how much it took to convince the parents, or for them to see that I was not making it up. We are talking enough dirty to make small hand prints very obvious. For me, it's all down to the parents reaction. It changes things from "**** happens" to something more depressing.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 331 ✭✭ FluffPiece


    Leave aside all the GDPR crap, it'll get you nowhere.

    The only recourse is if you convince the parents to pay. Ultimately they won't be forced to pay. A minor can't be sued for example.

    You are simply relying on them to do the right thing. As said earlier, a parent will believe their child played with the car and put their hands on it, but good luck convincing them the child scratched it with keys or stones etc. The parent will claim it was stones thrown up from the road while driving and good luck proving them wrong.

    Approach it nicely nicely and you might get some luck. Approach it in a hostile kind of way and the parent will tell you to get lost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,916 ✭✭✭ emo72


    Parents should be teaching their kids not to touch other people's stuff. But that doesn't happen anymore. Look OP, you can't have a nice car unless you can lock it away in a garage. Because kids don't be paying attention to what they're doing. And their parents really don't care. Sorry save yourself the heartache.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    emo72 wrote: »
    Parents should be teaching their kids not to touch other people's stuff. But that doesn't happen anymore. Look OP, you can't have a nice car unless you can lock it away in a garage. Because kids don't be paying attention to what they're doing. And their parents really don't care. Sorry save yourself the heartache.

    I'll drag my MKIV Golf off the scrap heap so :rolleyes:
    Though it was heartache getting rid of it.... :P


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,001 ✭✭✭ piplip87


    Phone the Gardai. They can examine the CCTV, they can call to the parents house. It won't go anywhere but it might put the ****s up them and get them to leave it alone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 68,333 ✭✭✭✭ seamus


    FluffPiece wrote: »
    Leave aside all the GDPR crap, it'll get you nowhere.

    The only recourse is if you convince the parents to pay. Ultimately they won't be forced to pay. A minor can't be sued for example.

    You are simply relying on them to do the right thing. As said earlier, a parent will believe their child played with the car and put their hands on it, but good luck convincing them the child scratched it with keys or stones etc. The parent will claim it was stones thrown up from the road while driving and good luck proving them wrong.

    Approach it nicely nicely and you might get some luck. Approach it in a hostile kind of way and the parent will tell you to get lost.
    This.

    Given that you're new and don't know anyone, I'd be inclined to suck it up unless you're willing to risk creating a hostile neighbour. Some people would immediately offer to pay, others might think you're pulling some kind of scam, others will tell you to f*ck off.
    Unless you've gotten to know the parents, you won't know which type they are.

    The notion that nobody is allowed to touch another person's car is daft anyway. It's a huge metal object in a public place, of course people are going to touch it. If you have a car that you never want anyone to touch, then you need a cover or a garage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ Darc19


    unhappys10 wrote: »
    I think those signs take responsibility from the car park owner.
    Not the kids who damaged the car on cctv.

    I'd follow them up and if the parents don't cough up maybe small claims court if they cover the likes of this.
    I wouldn't be a bit worried about upsetting neighbours if they are the type to avoid paying out when their child did the damage.
    Seriously???

    Small claims court against a neighbour's child.

    What a stupid suggestion.

    And small claims court is not for little private disputes either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭ bbk


    seamus wrote: »

    The notion that nobody is allowed to touch another person's car is daft anyway. It's a huge metal object in a public place, of course people are going to touch it. If you have a car that you never want anyone to touch, then you need a cover or a garage.

    I understand where you're coming from in the former part of the post, but for this I think we are dealing with a comment you're making based without the context of what actually happened and most likely a difference between us on what we expect in situations like this. Perhaps we all are in this thread, but I would be wary of continuing without raising this. I am certainly not talking about what is allowed or anything relating to your proposed solution of a cover or garage. I'd put parking somewhere else, getting a cover or a garage to the side like the GDPR discussion.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,916 ✭✭✭ emo72


    bbk wrote: »
    I'll drag my MKIV Golf off the scrap heap so :rolleyes:
    Though it was heartache getting rid of it.... :P

    I had a vintage vw van. Sold it because people couldn't leave it alone. Now I drive an unassuming banger. Couldn't care less if anyone dents it. I feel your pain OP, I really do. Make a choice. Stand vigil over your car if you want to keep it perfect.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,407 ✭✭✭✭ Eric Cartman


    best of luck OP, in my experience of these scenarios you're met with 'my little billy is an angel and wouldn't do that' or 'they're only kids playing, stop being such a miser' etc...

    hopefully you can get money out of them to repair it and they teach their kids a little respect.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,162 ✭✭✭✭ KKV


    It's a horrible situation to be in, and although I'd agree that many parent's will be hard pressed to put their hands in their pockets, you can always try.

    I don't really see you getting anywhere, though. Head-wrecking as it is.


    In relation to CCTV - You're allowed to take photos/videos/recordings (whatever way you wish to word it) in a public place. There's no law against it. The GDPR thing, which almost every second person seems to interpret differently, really just means you can't publish the content with the person identifiable, without their permission. Naturally, this is overlooked almost every day of the week (pick up a newspaper, look at the photos - do you reckon they've got everyone's permission?)


    Being a 'data controller' in the real world just means you're not allowed to deny they're your cameras and you have to hand over footage if the person in the footage asks for it.


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