Structural survey might have missed something

alexlyons

Just wondering what the possible next steps should be.

I got a structural survey on a detached house which has a separate garage.
The survey was non-invasive and a full report was provided. It was completed early in 2020

There are a substantial amount of trees on the property.
It now transpires that one of the trees is growing in to the corner of the garage.
The tree is large, easily 70ft tall and could be more. It is on our property but is very close to the boundary and from about 10ft it goes significantly outside of the boundary, so much so that I would say nothing other than the base of the tree is on our land. There is a field on the other side of the boundary fence.

You can easily see a small amount of damage to the top corner of the garage from an accessible point in the garden.
You can easily see a reasonable crack in the mortar of the blocks inside the garage, but at the opposite end, about 1 block lower than the concrete roof.
You can also see a significant crack on the outside of the rear wall, from the field, also about 1ft from the roof, running the whole length of the garage.
I wouldn’t have expected the surveyor to see the outside of the rear wall as he would have need approved access to the field which he didn’t have.

There is an adjoining workshop (at the opposite end to the tree) which was plasterboarded. I removed the board and battons from the block walls due to significant mould growth.

Now that I have removed the plasterboard, you can clearly see that on all walls, there is a reasonably significant crack about 1ft from the roof.
Again, I wouldn’t have expected the surveyor to see this.

It’s clear the tree is pushing the roof sideways which is causing significant cracking and damage to the garage.
There was plenty of items in plain sight at the time of the survey which in my view should have flagged even a potential issue.
These were;
- The tree
- The cracking to the corner
- A small crack in the outside of the side wall
- A significant crack visible inside the garage on the rear wall (1ft from roof as mentioned)
- Crumbling to some of the top layer of blocks visible inside the garage.

Given the above, I’m wondering what options are available.

I’m not out for a big fight, and am happy to speak to the surveyor, but also wondering should I speak to anyone (such as the chartered body for surveyors) ahead of contacting my surveyor, or get a second opinion first etc.

I’ve no interest in getting a second opinion and then immediately going through a solictor etc. I’d only do that if my surveyor wasn’t being helpful.

Any help would be welcomed.

blackbox

I'd say your best option is to get a tree surgeon to safely remove the tree.

What do you expect to gain by going after the surveyor, even if he/she was incompetent.

(I am assuming you are now the owner of this property. If not, ask for a discount.)

alexlyons

blackbox wrote: »

I'd say your best option is to get a tree surgeon to safely remove the tree.

What do you expect to gain by going after the surveyor, even if he/she was incompetent.

Ah sorry, knew I’d forgotten something.
While there are plenty of trees, this one in particular is blocking the view of a large pylon.

Removing the tree is really a last resort. I’d sooner let the garage deteriorate over 5-10 years and save the money to rebuild the garage with a few perks of designing it myself etc.

Your question of what I want to achieve is a good one, but difficult to answer.

I would firmly believe that the purchase price of the house would have been materially affected had the issue been apparent before signing the contracts.

I’m not trying to sue the surveyor and make a quick buck.
However I paid him for a formal and professional survey to spot issues exactly like this, there were signs in plain sight and he didn’t see them.

I don’t believe you should sit by if there is an issue of that magnitude.
I think there is a middle ground between throwing all the toys out of the pram and just ignoring the issue and removing the tree.

I suppose I’m wondering should I do anything ahead of talking to the surveyor and if he isn’t cooperative in assessing the exact issue and the severity of it, is there anyone who can help with that potential dispute.

It’s about having my ducks in a row and knowing the options before the first move of seeing what his position on it is.
Granted I may not need any other options, but it’s about being prepared

Metric Tensor

You still have to answer the question:

What do you want from the surveyor?

The only possible answer that I can see is money.

If you want money from the surveyor you will have to go the legal route because they are not just going to write you a cheque to make you go away. In fact they will have to go to their insurer anyway so it will end up going the legal route.

I'm not saying what is right and wrong in this process - I have neither seen the house nor the survey report - you just need to know what you want in advance. If it's many thousands of euro the chances of any business (big or small) giving that out without solicitors and insurers being involved is very small.

alexlyons

Metric Tensor wrote: »

You still have to answer the question:

What do you want from the surveyor?

The only possible answer that I can see is money.

If you want money from the surveyor you will have to go the legal route because they are not just going to write you a cheque to make you go away. In fact they will have to go to their insurer anyway so it will end up going the legal route.

I'm not saying what is right and wrong in this process - I have neither seen the house nor the survey report - you just need to know what you want in advance. If it's many thousands of euro the chances of any business (big or small) giving that out without solicitors and insurers being involved is very small.

Ok fair point. I’m aware I’m not just going to get handed a cheque and not expecting that.

Maybe I ignore the surveyor for now and get a second opinion as to should he have spotted it or not etc.

I’m not mad on going to a random other surveyor to see if he/she says “oh ye he should have spotted it” because then it’s just one word against the other.

Is there an independent option like the chartered surveyors etc?

Metric Tensor

Depends on the surveyors professional qualifications. Most have professional bodies who "oversee" their activities. But to honest it's generally in name only - the professional bodies don't really have much teeth short of striking their member off the register and I'm not sure if that's what you want or if that would be of any benefit to you.

If you want money your solicitor will arrange for a second opinion anyway because it will be required for the court case.

I can see what you want - some sort of middle ground where you get a few quid without having to go the full legal route - but there's no such thing really. There is no equivalent of the "Personal Injury Board" for surveyors.

Also you have to be aware that the surveyor may feel their report is correct and adequately addresses all the issues in which case it will be settled in court or on the steps of the court house in a few years time.

Again - everyone here has only heard your side of the story so we can't advise on whether you have a valid complaint or not.

alexlyons

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Depends on the surveyors professional qualifications. Most have professional bodies who "oversee" their activities. But to honest it's generally in name only - the professional bodies don't really have much teeth short of striking their member off the register and I'm not sure if that's what you want or if that would be of any benefit to you.

If you want money your solicitor will arrange for a second opinion anyway because it will be required for the court case.

I can see what you want - some sort of middle ground where you get a few quid without having to go the full legal route - but there's no such thing really. There is no equivalent of the "Personal Injury Board" for surveyors.

Also you have to be aware that the surveyor may feel their report is correct and adequately addresses all the issues in which case it will be settled in court or on the steps of the court house in a few years time.

Again - everyone here has only heard your side of the story so we can't advise on whether you have a valid complaint or not.

You’re dead right, no interest in getting the guy struck off or anywhere close to it.

And as you say, nobody can properly advise without seeing it. Which is where my main query lies and you’ve kind of answered that as much as possible, so thanks.
I think it’ll have to be some form of second opinion, either from a builder or other surveyor, and then see what the story is when I talk to my surveyor.

I’d be very much along the line of what does he think the solution is without cutting the tree down.
If it’s definitely an issue and he acknowledges that then maybe a solution of his assistance in getting the garage repaired for a favourable rate and a part refund for the survey would be agreeable.

I’ve no idea really though, and need a professional to tell me if it’s significant or urgent, and given that you’ve pointed out there isn’t a professional body that can really help, it’ll have to be a normal second opinion.

Thanks again, and any other opinions welcome also

Metric Tensor

alexlyons wrote: »

If it’s definitely an issue and he acknowledges that then maybe a solution of his assistance in getting the garage repaired for a favourable rate and a part refund for the survey would be agreeable.

That sounds quite reasonable and you sound reasonable too so you may be able to work something like that alright.


Of course the question then becomes if he missed a major issue in the first place do you really want his assistance in fixing it!


Be aware that most professionals in the field are obliged to inform their insurers when someone mentions anything about a claim and once the insurers are brought into it they will immediately make sure that the surveyor no longer discusses the issue with you.

So tread carefully if/when you approach him. The old adage of only one type of person profiting from legal action is often true in these type of circumstances!

alexlyons

Metric Tensor wrote: »

That sounds quite reasonable and you sound reasonable too so you may be able to work something like that alright.


Of course the question then becomes if he missed a major issue in the first place do you really want his assistance in fixing it!


Be aware that most professionals in the field are obliged to inform their insurers when someone mentions anything about a claim and once the insurers are brought into it they will immediately make sure that the surveyor no longer discusses the issue with you.

So tread carefully if/when you approach him. The old adage of only one type of person profiting from legal action is often true in these type of circumstances!

A good point about maybe not wanting him fixing it. I think that will all depends on his reaction.

My hope would be that he says “look we’re all human, hands up, I missed it, let’s fix it”.
If he’s like that then I’d happily have him involved I think, he came well recommend.
But if he fights it then he’s out!

And ye, I’m not a fan of big legal battles!

Gumbo

alexlyons wrote: »

Just wondering what the possible next steps should be.

I got a structural survey on a detached house which has a separate garage.
The survey was non-invasive and a full report was provided.

Then you didn’t get a structural survey.
You got a pre purchase visual survey.

alexlyons

Gumbo wrote: »

Then you didn’t get a structural survey.
You got a pre purchase visual survey.

Fair point, thanks for the clarity.
I think the points still stand as there were many tell tale visual items which would have given cause for at least a comment in the report that it needs further assessment.
Good point to be aware of from a wording point of view for discussing with others so thanks again.

Calahonda52

alexlyons wrote: »

Removing the tree is really a last resort. I’d sooner let the garage deteriorate over 5-10 years and save the money to rebuild the garage with a few perks of designing it myself etc.


I would firmly believe that the purchase price of the house would have been materially affected had the issue been apparent before signing the contracts.

So you want the surveyer to pay for fixing the garage and still leave the damage causing tree there? Does not add up.

That is pure conjecture as its the garage, not the house.

Did the report specifically cover the garage?
Does the report refer to it ?

Read the exclusion section of the report closely