Do I Need Planning Permission (Garden Office)

paul7g

Hi,

I'm in the early stages of looking at building a Garden Office.

I've received mixed information from two different friends (builders) in terms of planning permission. I do plan to get an architect involved but I would like to figure out if planning permission is required at this early stage. Hopefully someone here will have the knowledge.

While I understand that Garden Rooms don't usually require planning permission, and neither should mine, considering it is under 25m2 and not facing a public road, I think the location / position where I would like to put it, might be up for debate.

As you can see from my diagram below, my house was developed at the back of a neighbours large / long garden, therefore my house is not on a road, and also a 'right of way' also separates my entrance and the road. A large 2m wall separates my neighbours land and our house / land.

I would like to position the Garden Room to front side of the house, as per diagram. It is also important to note, that I will not be digging a foundation or building any new walls (i.e - technically, it is not a fixed structure).

I would appreciate your input on whether it does require planning permission, and if so why? Thank you for your input.

Gumbo

paul7g wrote: »

Hi,

I'm in the early stages of looking at building a Garden Office.

I've received mixed information from two different friends (builders) in terms of planning permission. I do plan to get an architect involved but I would like to figure out if planning permission is required at this early stage. Hopefully someone here will have the knowledge.

While I understand that Garden Rooms don't usually require planning permission, and neither should mine, considering it is under 25m2 and not facing a public road, I think the location / position where I would like to put it, might be up for debate.

As you can see from my diagram below, my house was developed at the back of a neighbours large / long garden, therefore my house is not on a road, and also a 'right of way' also separates my entrance and the road. A large 2m wall separates my neighbours land and our house / land.

I would like to position the Garden Room to front side of the house, as per diagram. It is also important to note, that I will not be digging a foundation or building any new walls (i.e - technically, it is not a fixed structure).

I would appreciate your input on whether it does require planning permission, and if so why? Thank you for your input.

I know of similar developments like yours, particularly on the Malahide Road here in Dublin.

I think you are caught with needing to apply for planning as the exemptions allow for them behind the front wall of the house. You want to put it to the front wall of the house. Visible from the public road is irrelevant so don’t listen to people that use that line with you.

Class 3 exempted development

CLASS 3

The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house of any tent, awning, shade or other object, greenhouse, garage, store, shed or other similar structure.

1. No such structure shall be constructed, erected or placed forward of the front wall of a house.

2. The total area of such structures constructed, erected or placed within the curtilage of a house shall not, taken together with any other such structures previously constructed, erected or placed within the said curtilage, exceed 25 square metres.

3. The construction, erection or placing within the curtilage of a house of any such structure shall not reduce the amount of private open space reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house to the rear or to the side of the house to less than 25 square metres.

4. The external finishes of any garage or other structure constructed, erected or placed to the side of a house, and the roof covering where any such structure has a tiled or slated roof, shall conform with those of the house.

5. The height of any such structure shall not exceed, in the case of a building with a tiled or slated pitched roof, 4 metres or, in any other case, 3 metres.

6. The structure shall not be used for human habitation or for the keeping of pigs, poultry, pigeons, ponies or horses, or for any other purpose other than a purpose incidental to the enjoyment of the house as such.

paul7g

Thanks Gumbo.

I wasn't sure if that was technically the front wall of the house, given the layout of the land, and the road.

Based on your experience (and I know it depends on the full design of structure), but how likely is something like this to pass planning?

paul7g

paul7g wrote: »

Thanks Gumbo.

I wasn't sure if that was technically the front wall of the house, given the layout of the land, and the road.

Based on your experience (and I know it depends on the full design of structure), but how likely is something like this to pass planning?

Interesting thread. I have a large garden at the front (down the country), and was hoping to build a geodesic dome at the front of the house, according to this, I need planning permission?

Shame, it was the perfect place for sun coverage.

Gumbo

paul7g wrote: »

Thanks Gumbo.

I wasn't sure if that was technically the front wall of the house, given the layout of the land, and the road.

Based on your experience (and I know it depends on the full design of structure), but how likely is something like this to pass planning?

I’d say planning be ok. You’d just have to demonstrate the location relative to the adjoining house and I think it will be granted.

Deleted User wrote: »

Interesting thread. I have a large garden at the front (down the country), and was hoping to build a geodesic dome at the front of the house, according to this, I need planning permission?

Shame, it was the perfect place for sun coverage.

What the problem! Just apply for planning.

Lumen

paul7g wrote: »

It is also important to note, that I will not be digging a foundation or building any new walls (i.e - technically, it is not a fixed structure).

This is inaccurate and irrelevant from a planning perspective.

paul7g

Ok, thanks guys. I greatly appreciate the help.

@Lumen: it was explained to me that the reason the 'pre built' (e.g - Seomra Rooms) didn't require any planning permission, was due to the fact that they technically were not a fixed structure.

A few other questions:

01 - Should I hire an architect to help with the planning application, or is this straightforward and something I should be able to complete myself?

02 - Don't shoot me... but would it be a very bad idea to build it now, and and apply later? There are a few reasons as to why I urgently need it now, along with the fact I have someone at the ready to build it now, but is busy then for the next 6 months. I also don't want to wait 2-3 months for planning and then another month to construct it.

Lumen

paul7g wrote: »

it was explained to me that the reason the 'pre built' (e.g - Seomra Rooms) didn't require any planning permission, was due to the fact that they technically were not a fixed structure.

Without naming anyone, who gave you that advice? A professional or some randomer?

Penn

paul7g wrote: »

Ok, thanks guys. I greatly appreciate the help.

@Lumen: it was explained to me that the reason the 'pre built' (e.g - Seomra Rooms) didn't require any planning permission, was due to the fact that they technically were not a fixed structure.

A few other questions:

01 - Should I hire an architect to help with the planning application, or is this straightforward and something I should be able to complete myself?

02 - Don't shoot me... but would it be a very bad idea to build it now, and and apply later? There are a few reasons as to why I urgently need it now, along with the fact I have someone at the ready to build it now, but is busy then for the next 6 months. I also don't want to wait 2-3 months for planning and then another month to construct it.

There are many things which require planning permission despite not being a "fixed structure". Even putting a mobile home on a site temporarily (say while your house is beng constructed) requires planning. Regardless, as the structure is to the front of the house and isn't a garage/shed it requires planning.

The application generally isn't complicated, but in terms of doing it right and doing it correctly it very much depends on your skill level. You need scaled drawings, site survey etc. The fact your house is in behind another house complicates things. You also say the garden office matches the style of the house, however if it's not a fixed structure and is only 2.2m high, I find it hard to see how as the materials are going to be completely different from the house. I would recommend hiring someone for the application.

As for building it without permission, you take on the risk of someone (particularly neighbours, not just in front of you but generally around the street) reporting the development to the council or the council finding out by any other means, in which case they can force you to stop the development meaning you'll either have to apply for retention permission (and construction must still stay paused until the Council's decision), or be ordered to remove the structure (all at your own cost/effort). Even if you got the thing built and were using it, the Council still have 7 years to issue enforcement proceedings and can still order you to demolish it. Just because you apply for retention permission doesn't mean it'll be granted or that they won't apply conditions to same which you would have to comply with, again at your own cost/effort.

Engaging a professional to at least meet with to get their opinion on the whole thing could give you a far better idea on your chances.

Lumen

paul7g wrote: »

Don't shoot me... but would it be a very bad idea to build it now, and and apply later? There are a few reasons as to why I urgently need it now, along with the fact I have someone at the ready to build it now, but is busy then for the next 6 months. I also don't want to wait 2-3 months for planning and then another month to construct it.

Dunno where you are, but a pre-planning consultation ought to be speedy enough.

e.g.

https://www.dlrcoco.ie/en/planning/planning-applications/pre-planning-consultations

The Mighty Quinn

paul7g wrote: »

01 - Should I hire an architect to help with the planning application, or is this straightforward and something I should be able to complete myself?

If you can put together a few drawings to a scale per planning authority requirements, I'd do it yourself. Most LA's have a list of what drawings they require you to submit and at what scale the drawings are to be.

You might come unstuck a little on the wording of what you are applying for permission for, but if you posted it up here I'm sure people would comment or tweak it for you.

paul7g

Thanks Lumen - DLR is my area, thanks.

What's speedy? :-)

Do they come out to your house and view if you need planning or not, or how does it work?

paul7g

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

If you can put together a few drawings to a scale per planning authority requirements, I'd do it yourself. Most LA's have a list of what drawings they require you to submit and at what scale the drawings are to be.

You might come unstuck a little on the wording of what you are applying for permission for, but if you posted it up here I'm sure people would comment or tweak it for you.

Thank you, very helpful.

Penn

paul7g wrote: »

Thanks Lumen - DLR is my area, thanks.

What's speedy? :-)

Do they come out to your house and view if you need planning or not, or how does it work?

Generally you submit a rough drawing and description of what you're proposing (there's usually a pre-planning form or two that would have to be filled out too). For small developments, they'd likely just call you (can be 2-4 weeks after submitting your pre-planning application) and they'll just discuss it with you over the phone. They'll almost never say yes or no, they'll just highlight the main issues you'll face with it that you'd need to address when it comes to submitting the full planning application.

Gumbo

paul7g wrote: »

Ok, thanks guys. I greatly appreciate the help.

@Lumen: it was explained to me that the reason the 'pre built' (e.g - Seomra Rooms) didn't require any planning permission, was due to the fact that they technically were not a fixed structure.

A few other questions:

01 - Should I hire an architect to help with the planning application, or is this straightforward and something I should be able to complete myself?

02 - Don't shoot me... but would it be a very bad idea to build it now, and and apply later? There are a few reasons as to why I urgently need it now, along with the fact I have someone at the ready to build it now, but is busy then for the next 6 months. I also don't want to wait 2-3 months for planning and then another month to construct it.

Incorrect advice given to you by someone looking make a sale and get paid ASAP.
Never take planning advice from a builder, log cabin sales man or similar.

1. Depends on your ability to prepare a planning application properly. Depends on who you hire also as costs will vary based on who you use.

2. Risky as it’s illegal. Also what happens if retention is refused or conditioned to be moved or altered in finish or size?

A2LUE42

This 'article' was posted yesterday. It reads more like one of the Celtic tiger advertising pieces from the Indo than anything else.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/lifestyle/popularity-of-log-cabins-growing-amid-housing-crisis-and-pandemic-1075200.html

No mention of planning or legality. It is no wonder the confusion around these is created with stuff like this being published.


Popularity Of Log Cabins Growing Amid Housing Crisis And Pandemic
07/02/2021 | 09:54 AM
JAMES COX

With the housing crisis far from over and working from home now the norm, one business that has thrived despite the pandemic is the log cabin industry.
Log cabins offer a cheaper, more cost effective, and quicker solution to housing problems for Irish families and many are choosing to take up that option.
Glenn Moore and his business partners set up MyCabins in 2019 and their business has grown since then, with a second showroom in Cobh, Co Cork now set up along with their original site in Blessington, Co Wicklow.

Mr Moore spoke to BreakingNews.ie about how log cabins are becoming an increasingly popular option in Ireland, both for residential and working purposes.

After a brief lull at the start of the pandemic, he said queries have “quadrupled”.

Housing crisis
“There are three things driving the increase,” Mr Moore explained. “Number one is residential, the housing crisis hasn't gone away, the rental crisis is worsening, a lot of what we do is one and two-bedroom cabins. That's basically fixing the housing problem for themselves. You wouldn't believe how many are going in, there's a lot.”

He said many people are taking up the option to build smaller cabins for office space as well.

“Home offices have certainly increased because so many people have had the chance to work from home or have been forced to work from home, they've seen the benefits of it for example: less commuting, more time at home, less stress, more productivity because there's no looking at the clock at 4pm thinking 'will I get out in time to beat rush hour?', that sort of thing.

“Working at the kitchen table with other family members around has been difficult for some people, so while working from home is great if people have a bit of space to do it on their own in the back garden it's even better.”

While some people have opted for cabins as an alternative for office space, other businesses find them a more cost effective plan than renting premises, especially with the uncertainty of lockdowns.

“We have a lot of home businesses or one-room businesses looking at cabins. For example, hair salons, physios, nail bars, tanning etc.

“A lot of them have had to close their doors because of Covid restrictions with landlords saying, 'I don't care if you're open or closed you'll pay the rent as normal'. A lot of people can't do that, so they're handing the keys over and looking to set up in the back garden. No rent, work your own hours.

“Home offices are not the biggest driver, but they are certainly a big driver of what we're doing.”

Mr Moore said crowded houses as a result of lockdown restrictions also encouraged people to look at the option of a log cabin.

“During the first lockdown, the biggest issue we encountered was adult children living at home. We got more calls from the parents because they were going mad.

“They're used to being out at work, socialising, having a pint and meeting their friends and then coming home in the evening and off to bed.

“Five adults stuck on a couch watching mammy's pick on the TV is a different story.

“There can be three or four generations in the same house, when they could get out and go to work it was ok, now it's causing real difficulties.

“The housing and rental issue is only getting worse. If people have a €50,000, €60,000 deposit saved in Dublin they're looking at moving to Carlow or Longford, not ideal.

“A two-bedroom house in the back garden, you're looking at a €45,000-€55,000 project with a lifespan that is 80-90 years, it's a no-brainer.

“A two-bedroom house is a five-six day project, a home office is a two-three day project.

“We're experiencing slightly longer wait times purely due to the volume of orders. Our lead time at the moment is 16-18 weeks, this time last year it was six weeks.

“One and two-bedroom are the most popular purely down to the space people have, with a lot of these going into back gardens.”

Mr Moore explained that log cabins are also economical as they retain heat well and come with insulation.

“It's far cheaper to heat than a block built house because you're not heating cold concrete.

“They're a lot cheaper to run and maintain. You've got complete roof and floor insulation, the heat sustains in these buildings a lot more effectively than in block-built buildings.

“You've got really good windows and doors.”

He expects demand to continue and log cabins to become even more mainstream as people look to live more affordably and save for the future.

Sea change
“The sea change is really happening at this point. For generations, it was bricks and mortar, get your mortgage, 30 years, get a holiday in your 50s. That was the routine if you could get on the ladder for the majority of the population.

“The €50,000 loan for a two-bedroom cabin over five years is €900 a month, you can forget that for renting these days. It's a no-brainer for so many people who don't want a 30-year mortgage.”

While My Cabin's showrooms are closed due to the pandemic, they have developed full virtual tours which customers can access on their website.

Virtual tours
“The showrooms are closed for now with lockdown but we've got really smart guys in the office. We do everything in-house and our IT man Vaidas has created a virtual tour of both of the show sites, we can't bring people in, but we can bring the tour to them.

“Thankfully we're one of the companies that has done really well despite lockdown. We're filling a gap that has been sorely needed for some time. Log cabins have been around in Ireland for a while but the technology has really come on.”