Beef Price - Possible Solution

Controlledfury

I'm new to posting on boards but I'm just thinking if this this is a possible solution to beef prices. We are currently being taken advantage of by the factories who have complete control of the price and there is very little transparency on how the factories get their prices. Prices have remained low for a number of years while factories have made huge profits. The factories know that farmers currently don't have a set plan. Some farmers what a set baseline and have other requirements and the factories use this to their advantage by claiming brexit or other issue but very little transparency on price. So what is my solution.

My solution would be to create a completely independent financial regulatory body who would set the price range to factories each week. The independent financial regulatory would pick 10 countries. These would have similar regulations and standards (Mostly EU countries).  They would get a average price each week. The top 2 and the bottom 2 countries each week would be disregarded and the average for the week would be got from the middle 6. The factories would then have to give either maximum 5% above or below this cost and all prices would be completely transparent.

So how would it be paid for it? We the farmer would pay for it on a small percentage levy of cattle sales both in the mart and in the factory. It would probably cost around 2 million to setup and run annually. It would be completely independent and transparent system.

I don't mind receiving a low price if that is the current market conditions but it just feels we are getting taken advantage of. This would give clear picture on price and would be fair for both farmer and factory as it looks at average baseline price for a number of countries. Currently the factories have all the power. I know there maybe issues that I haven't thought of or people might know of ways to improve my solution and I would like to hear them. I just think if most farmers pull in the same direction, the factories can't take advantage of us. What do others think and have people other solutions.

kk.man

Controlledfury wrote: »

I'm new to posting on boards but I'm just thinking if this this is a possible solution to beef prices. We are currently being taken advantage of by the factories who have complete control of the price and there is very little transparency on how the factories get their prices. Prices have remained low for a number of years while factories have made huge profits. The factories know that farmers currently don't have a set plan. Some farmers what a set baseline and have other requirements and the factories use this to their advantage by claiming brexit or other issue but very little transparency on price. So what is my solution.

My solution would be to create a completely independent financial regulatory body who would set the price range to factories each week. The independent financial regulatory would pick 10 countries. These would have similar regulations and standards (Mostly EU countries).  They would get a average price each week. The top 2 and the bottom 2 countries each week would be disregarded and the average for the week would be got from the middle 6. The factories would then have to give either maximum 5% above or below this cost and all prices would be completely transparent.

So how would it be paid for it? We the farmer would pay for it on a small percentage levy of cattle sales both in the mart and in the factory. It would probably cost around 2 million to setup and run annually. It would be completely independent and transparent system.

I don't mind receiving a low price if that is the current market conditions but it just feels we are getting taken advantage of. This would give clear picture on price and would be fair for both farmer and factory as it looks at average baseline price for a number of countries. Currently the factories have all the power. I know there maybe issues that I haven't thought of or people might know of ways to improve my solution and I would like to hear them. I just think if most farmers pull in the same direction, the factories can't take advantage of us. What do others think and have people other solutions.

That's called price regulation and the EU is a free market.

Controlledfury

kk.man wrote: »

That's called price regulation and the EU is a free market.

Well then remove the price setting element. They can show what the average prices of Beef in EU countries and compare.

This would show the variances in price of Irish beef compare to for example French beef. It would put pressure on the factories to be transparent on who they set their price and too explain the difference.

The EU could then step in if the differences cannot be explained. The factories need to be accountable and there is no body currently doing this job.

wrangler

Bord Bia is doing it already.


https://www.bordbia.ie/farmers-growers/prices-markets/cattle-trade-prices/beef-market-tracking/

patsy_mccabe

Exporting 90% of our Beef is killing us, and always has. We are totally dependent on international markets for a scarcity somewhere to lift prices here.

kk.man

Controlledfury wrote: »

Well then remove the price setting element. They can show what the average prices of Beef in EU countries and compare.

This would show the variances in price of Irish beef compare to for example French beef. It would put pressure on the factories to be transparent on who they set their price and too explain the difference.

The EU could then step in if the differences cannot be explained. The factories need to be accountable and there is no body currently doing this job.

I wouldn't like the Irish price benchmarked against the European price as their production methods are different and they are usually behind the Irish price. It's the UK that a benchmark should be but they are getting out of the EU.

lalababa

Beef price in Ireland is falling for the last 30+ years. There is only one set of buyers. They say jump...we say how high? They say duck.... and we say how low? What can we do INSIDE the farm gate??
Afaik sucklers are losing money- suckler farmers should get rid of.
Finishers are losing money- they should cut down to their MSL.
Everybody should cut down to their MSL and use dairy bred. Cut all inputs and go organic.
There is no point in producing 100 animals conventionally at a loss when you could produce <\=50 organically at a modest profit.
The farm advisory groups should push this type of idea. Imagine the weekly kill goes from 35k to 15k in the space of 6 months? Surely there would be some upward pressure on prices.

charolais0153

Jjameson wrote: »

It’s only the uk producing steer and heifer grass based beef too. There’s little to compare with in Europe. The price index used by the ifj and bord bia taking young bull price as a direct comparison is ridiculous.

Bit like the cull cows abroad too

alps

lalababa wrote: »

There is no point in producing 100 animals conventionally at a loss when you could produce <\=50 organically at a modest profit.

This is too obvious a statement to put on any farming forum.

lalababa

lalababa wrote: »

Beef price in Ireland is falling for the last 30+ years. There is only one set of buyers. They say jump...we say how high? They say duck.... and we say how low? What can we do INSIDE the farm gate??
Afaik sucklers are losing money- suckler farmers should get rid of.
Finishers are losing money- they should cut down to their MSL.
Everybody should cut down to their MSL and use dairy bred. Cut all inputs and go organic.
There is no point in producing 100 animals conventionally at a loss when you could produce <\=50 organically at a modest profit.
The farm advisory groups should push this type of idea. Imagine the weekly kill goes from 35k to 15k in the space of 6 months? Surely there would be some upward pressure on prices.

Its been said so many times, "a sheep/cows/bullocks/heifers biggest enemy is another animal of its kind grazing in the same field or in same shed"

Draw the money and reduce variable cost / labour inputs

Current reared calf prices seem zaney to me. How are cattle so expensive for farmers to buy when there is such a glut of calves coming on stream from the dairy expansion?

_Brian

Ireland is overproducing beef, simple as.


Most beef farmers are busy fools, if they showed their accounts to any sane business man I think they would die laughing.

Cut supply. It will either raise prices or at a very minimum not give below cost cattle to processors to get rich on.

_Brian

Maybe a national herd cull is the right move. If farmers can’t make the sensible decisions maybe it should be made for them.

Hard Knocks

_Brian wrote: »

Maybe a national herd cull is the right move. If farmers can’t make the sensible decisions maybe it should be made for them.

Which is the suckler cow

_Brian

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Which is the suckler cow

I’d say derogation’s days are numbered which will impact dairy.

But beef is massively overproduced.
Only time we see prices lift is when supplies are tight, it has always been that way yet beef numbers to factory increased to a surplus so they sit back waiting for lads to ring begging to get cattle in. That’s not exactly a strong negotiation position we’ve put the industry into.

Hard Knocks

_Brian wrote: »

I’d say derogation’s days are numbered which will impact dairy.

But beef is massively overproduced.
Only time we see prices lift is when supplies are tight, it has always been that way yet beef numbers to factory increased to a surplus so they sit back waiting for lads to ring begging to get cattle in. That’s not exactly a strong negotiation position we’ve put the industry into.

Local whispers is a good few are exiting Sucklers after this year when the BDGP is over
Supposedly there’s a farm down the road rented for big money (no stock on it) for Nitrates

Siamsa Sessions

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Local whispers is a good few are exiting Sucklers after this year when the BDGP is over
Supposedly there’s a farm down the road rented for big money (no stock on it) for Nitrates

There's a few stories like that around here too. I also know a beef lad with a big SFP who was renting ground just to activate the entitlements. He has a handful of FR cattle on it but he's not far off buying donkeys at this stage.

Re beef price: people seem to be paying too much for reared calves at the moment. The loss is hidden in them until the animals are sold. It'll be hard to listen to their rant then that there's no money in cattle.

We're all optimists but there's no point in being too optimistic either.

patsy_mccabe

Is the genomics scheme set to end. I wouldn't be surprised if it continued. Enfer went covid 19 testing for the state during the crisis. Read between the lines folks. They need a fully functioning lab like that for future testing.

Hard Knocks

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

Is the genomics scheme set to end. I wouldn't be surprised if it continued. Enfer went covid 19 testing for the state during the crisis. Read between the lines folks. They need a fully functioning lab like that for future testing.

I think we’ll be DNA testing all calves at birth soon
That’ll keep them busy
There’s weatherby’s too

Hard Knocks

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

There's a few stories like that around here too. I also know a beef lad with a big SFP who was renting ground just to activate the entitlements. He has a handful of FR cattle on it but he's not far off buying donkeys at this stage.

Re beef price: people seem to be paying too much for reared calves at the moment. The loss is hidden in them until the animals are sold. It'll be hard to listen to their rant then that there's no money in cattle.

We're all optimists but there's no point in being too optimistic either.

Was watching some calf sales online in May
I thought calves were too dear
AA bulls 21 days making €300

Siamsa Sessions

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Was watching some calf sales online in May
I thought calves were too dear
AA bulls 21 days making €300

I bought AAx heifers, a month old at the time in April, for €80, and I'm wondering now if even that was too much for them!

TooOldBoots

Hard Knocks wrote: »

Was watching some calf sales online in May
I thought calves were too dear
AA bulls 21 days making €300

They just make smaller loss when compared to the suckler cow system.
Lots of people exiting the Suckler system this year,
from chatting with the local vet there seems to be a serious drop in quality now with the dairy beef stock.
I think the Silver haired farmers looking for the choice Charli and limousine cattle are soon going to be paying through the nose for them as the numbers plummet.

Hard Knocks

TooOldBoots wrote: »

They just make smaller loss when compared to the suckler cow system.
Lots of people exiting the Suckler system this year,
from chatting with the local vet there seems to be a serious drop in quality now with the dairy beef stock.
I think the Silver haired farmers looking for the choice Charli and limousine cattle are soon going to be paying through the nose for them as the numbers plummet.

I wondered that too
Was chatting a farmer who exited due to health and is now rearing calves
He bought calves for €10 and comments that he’d more money from the suckler cow

_Brian

Hard Knocks wrote: »

I wondered that too
Was chatting a farmer who exited due to health and is now rearing calves
He bought calves for €10 and comments that he’d more money from the suckler cow

If his eye steers him to €10 suck calves, chances are the same eye steers him to rubbish sucklers and he wasn’t making a bob at all.

alps

Siamsa Sessions wrote: »

Re beef price: people seem to be paying too much for reared calves at the moment. .

It's just stunning how this has been planted in the minds as the issue..Teagasc professionals giving papers on "how much you can afford to pay for the calf"

What an absolute disservice to farmers..

Concentrate
Minerals
Silage
Fertiliser
Reseeding
Straw
Hay
Veterinary
Medicines
Workers
Tags
Testing
Professional fees
Accountant
Advisor
Insurance
Repairs and Maintenance
Rented land
Labour
Insurance
Electricity
Car
Machinery
Road tax
Doe test
Leases
Contractor
Scanning
Etc..etc...

But No.....the professional genii in their greatness say


You paid too much for the calf..

Siamsa Sessions

You're right up to a point. It's easy to say the calf was too dear and just accept it as gospel that the other costs are set in stone and can't be questioned.

It'd be more accurate to say "the cost is too high for most of the stuff you listed after you buy the calf" - that's the real issue.

Same goes for the input costs of the farmer selling the calf.

Having said all that, anyone buying calves should be aware of the likely returns given all those other costs.

Hard Knocks

_Brian wrote: »

If his eye steers him to €10 suck calves, chances are the same eye steers him to rubbish sucklers and he wasn’t making a bob at all.

Actually No
He use to get the €1000+ for weanlings and the calves were all BF bulls that the farmer wanted gone as soon as they hit the age (no space)
His point is more time with calves, straw, milk replacer and more management needed and they’re the first to get a price cut

lalababa

RE the strategy of elimination of the suckler cow and de-stocking to 50% or less whilst bringing inputs and new investment towards zero, thus giving the opportunity to get a profit.
Might this strategy scare some farmers who have an inkling there will be a new 'base year' for stocking levels and recalculated farm payment amounts?