A discussion about the education system, not an attack on teachers

onrail

(Thread relocated from AH)

Just off the phone with a friend and I have to vent.

Primary school teacher, understandably been off work for the last while, putting in maybe an hour per day of work (on full salary) trying to keep their class ticking over.

So after all that stress, he's off on his summer holidays. Now, given that the pupils have been less than well taught over the last while, there is a demand there for extra tutoring. He hopes to set up a 'tutoring-school' type setup for the summer, and maybe bring in €400-450pw cash over the summer months. This is cash he's being paid to do the job that he didn't do right in the first place.

Now, fair play to the fella, he's showing some drive and initiative, but it just shows what a sham that the system is. (This isn't a personal attack on anyone)

I'm here, bitter as hell, working 8-10 hours per day in an insecure job, to make similar money than their base salary - much less if you account for the nixers. I can't go back and retrain because it'll bankrupt me - just have to live with the CAO decisions I made when I was 17.

Now I know it's not their fault that the system is the way it is, but, holy god, if a primary teacher ever complains about their/pay conditions, I think I'll properly snap.

Is it possible for us to have a discussion here, commenting on the system, without being shouted down for teacher bashing?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

onrail wrote: »

(Thread relocated from AH)

Just off the phone with a friend and I have to vent.

Primary school teacher, understandably been off work for the last while, putting in maybe an hour per day of work (on full salary) trying to keep their class ticking over.

So after all that stress, he's off on his summer holidays. Now, given that the pupils have been less than well taught over the last while, there is a demand there for extra tutoring. He hopes to set up a 'tutoring-school' type setup for the summer, and maybe bring in €400-450pw cash over the summer months. This is cash he's being paid to do the job that he didn't do right in the first place.

Now, fair play to the fella, he's showing some drive and initiative, but it just shows what a sham that the system is. (This isn't a personal attack on anyone)

I'm here, bitter as hell, working 8-10 hours per day in an insecure job, to make similar money than their base salary - much less if you account for the nixers. I can't go back and retrain because it'll bankrupt me - just have to live with the CAO decisions I made when I was 17.

Now I know it's not their fault that the system is the way it is, but, holy god, if a primary teacher ever complains about their/pay conditions, I think I'll properly snap.

Is it possible for us to have a discussion here, commenting on the system, without being shouted down for teacher bashing?

1000000% with you.

They are very well paid both at primary and secondary level with job security and a safe guaranteed pension to boot.

I have a science degree and earn €37,370 per year, 10% pension from my employer and 15% from me, they also pay health insurance.

Starting on €34,000 for secondary is an enormous salary.

Before anyone tells me to retrain, it'd cripple me.
€12,000 for masters, two years out of work (€74,740), no pension contributions going in (€3,737x2=€7,474 from employer)no health insurance for my partner and me (€2,000x2=€4,000) =€98,214

With commuting costs and expenses and deferred payments house etc, it'd cost me close to €100 g..

Teachers are overpaid underworked whiners.

Deeper Blue

So just an attack on teachers basically?

onrail

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

Teachers are overpaid underworked whiners.

I don't want to make this about teachers themselves, moreso a broken system that allows the enterprising types to take advantage - as we all would if we were given a chance.

Skyfloater

yeah, it's not bad for is a almost full time job.

talla10

onrail wrote: »

(Thread relocated from AH)

Now I know it's not their fault that the system is the way it is, but, holy god, if a primary teacher ever complains about their/pay conditions, I think I'll properly snap.

Is it possible for us to have a discussion here, commenting on the system, without being shouted down for teacher bashing?

No. Not when you bash the teachers in your opening post.

I agree teachers are being let down by the education system same as Nurses by the Health system and Gardaí by the Justice system. What they all have in common is either underfunding or mismanagement of funds.

onrail

talla10 wrote: »

No. Not when you bash the teachers in your opening post.

I agree teachers are being let down by the education system same as Nurses by the Health system and Gardaí by the Justice system. What they all have in common is either underfunding or mismanagement of funds.

How am I bashing the teachers themselves? They’re making the most of a flawed system. Fair play.

khalessi

onrail wrote: »

(Thread relocated from AH)

Just off the phone with a friend and I have to vent.

Primary school teacher, understandably been off work for the last while, putting in maybe an hour per day of work (on full salary) trying to keep their class ticking over.

So after all that stress, he's off on his summer holidays. Now, given that the pupils have been less than well taught over the last while, there is a demand there for extra tutoring. He hopes to set up a 'tutoring-school' type setup for the summer, and maybe bring in €400-450pw cash over the summer months. This is cash he's being paid to do the job that he didn't do right in the first place.

Now, fair play to the fella, he's showing some drive and initiative, but it just shows what a sham that the system is. (This isn't a personal attack on anyone)

I'm here, bitter as hell, working 8-10 hours per day in an insecure job, to make similar money than their base salary - much less if you account for the nixers. I can't go back and retrain because it'll bankrupt me - just have to live with the CAO decisions I made when I was 17.

Now I know it's not their fault that the system is the way it is, but, holy god, if a primary teacher ever complains about their/pay conditions, I think I'll properly snap.

Is it possible for us to have a discussion here, commenting on the system, without being shouted down for teacher bashing?

You want a discussion not bashing teachers but yet in your op you bash your friend and state that you are bitter, good start there on the no bashing teachers
good impartiality there. How do you know how much time he spent? How do you know he didnt do it properly?

As you said you made your choice at 17.
You could retrain, many including myself have done it. I worked 5 x 12 hours nightshifts a week during college and then 7 nights a week during holidays to do it and got there. And in college I had to sign in a 9am most mornings and finished at 6pm. It isnt easy but can be done there are a lot of mature students retraining to be teachers of all ages. If there is a will there is a way.

By the way bashing a teacher in opening post not a good start.

endacl

My considered response, as a teacher:

Yawn. Yeah. Whatever. Don’t annoy me till September.

Sincerely.

Mrs OBumble

It should be a code of conduct issue that permanently appointed teacher are not allowed to do any paid teaching work. I cannot image any other profession allowed to do nixers with their day job clients.

onrail

khalessi wrote: »

You want a discussion not bashing teachers but yet in your op you bash your friend and state that you are bitter, good start there on the no bashing teachers
good impartiality there. How do you know how much time he spent? How do you know he didnt do it properly?

As you said you made your choice at 17.
You could retrain, many including myself have done it. I worked 5 x 12 hours nightshifts a week during college and then 7 nights a week during holidays to do it and got there. And in college I had to sign in a 9am most mornings and finished at 6pm. It isnt easy but can be done there are a lot of mature students retraining to be teachers of all ages. If there is a will there is a way.

By the way bashing a teacher in opening post not a good start.

1. He told me exactly how much time he spent;

2. The 1 hour teaching per day was probably done perfectly and professionally but 1 hour cannot equate to a full day in the classroom

3. Maybe that was possible for you, but I pay rent, have a young family, and I'm currently the only income in the household. If you retrained and worked with the same constraints, then fair bloody play to you, but currently, I can't.

4. I've factually presented a situation, albeit as a bit of a rant - but quite honestly, I don't mean to make it personal against any teacher.

endacl

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It should be a code of conduct issue that permanently appointed teacher are not allowed to do any paid teaching work. I cannot image any other profession allowed to do nixers with their day job clients.

Never met a plumber?

onrail

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It should be a code of conduct issue that permanently appointed teacher are not allowed to do any paid teaching work. I cannot image any other profession allowed to do nixers with their day job clients.

Something to that effect is written into my contract.

Varik

Don't understand why this is being done/was done on a teacher by teacher and class by class basis. At the lower end it's as easy for a single teacher to send their class an email once a week as it is for the department to do it to it for the whole country. I know they didn't know how long it was going to last but but actually building up a additional resource for parents to use at home would only benefit even going forward.

6o9fv7jpreb180

Some teachers did the bare minimum during lockdown, some went above and beyond. I'm sure it was the same in many industries.

Our school set up English and Maths accounts on various apps (paid for by the school) Sent out a weekly email and most teachers had seesaw set up doing daily tasks. Not enough for some, too much for others, and then you had the parents that didnt even bother.

Was it even possible to come up with a system that suited most families?? I don't think so.

On a side note - I would love a TV show where a member of the public who thinks teaching is easy was put into a classroom with 30 children for a week!

Tokyo

*creates thread titled "not an attack on teachers"

*immediately launches into an attack on teachers

OP, I saw your original thread in AH, and it was shut down for the same reason. The question was loaded from the get-go. You have zero interest in discussions and are just looking to, in your words - vent - to any willing audience.

Thread closed.