Dacia and LPG

BrianD3

Don't know if this was mentioned before or how long it has been the case, Dacia now selling LPG cars in Ireland.

13840 for a LPG Sandero 100 bhp
15040 for a LPG Sandero Stepway 100 bhp

I don't recall a manufacturer selling LPG cars here before?

The list of LPG equipped stations isn't very long and there is wild variation in the prices
https://www.mylpg.eu/stations/ireland/list/

It's an option at least and might suit some people.

I'm looking forward to the new Sandero and Logan which I think are being launched next year, should be a big improvement on the current offerings as will be on a much newer platform.

Atlantic Dawn

Interesting development, the lack of stations and current cheap price of petrol and diesel don't make it a great time to launch.

colm_mcm

Did Volvo sell the Bi Fuel cars here around 15 years ago?

Miscreant

colm_mcm wrote: »

Did Volvo sell the Bi Fuel cars here around 15 years ago?

They did but that was standard petrol or ethanol e85 IIRC. I think Ford did the same.

Leonard Hofstadter

Miscreant wrote: »

They did but that was standard petrol or ethanol e85 IIRC. I think Ford did the same.

The original S40 had a dual fuel option (LPG and petrol) and was sold in the UK, don't know if it ever sold here, though.

The second generation S40 did indeed have a flexi-fuel variant (petrol and E85), as did the V70 and S80.

colm_mcm

There was an LPG V70 I thought?

alias no.9

colm_mcm wrote: »

There was an LPG V70 I thought?

S60 as well, a few years before the flexifuel. Opel and Fiat had dual fuel Petrol / CNG but I don't think there were any CNG retailers in the country.

Ubbquittious

I saw 2 of these one after the other in France not so long ago. Good that they are selling them here. If there is a LPG station near you you're laughing

frozenfrozen

weird how big the price difference is for lpg stations. the one nearest me is one of the cheapest but there's a few at around 1 euro per litre, that's probably more expensive than petrol when you adjust it for how much energy there is?

Ubbquittious

frozenfrozen wrote: »

weird how big the price difference is for lpg stations. the one nearest me is one of the cheapest but there's a few at around 1 euro per litre, that's probably more expensive than petrol when you adjust it for how much energy there is?

It would be mostly fellas filling their forklift and the odd cooking setup for a camper van at those stations I'd say. Passed a place today and it was 68c/l

If there's less energy per litre what's the advantage unless there's large savings on fuel considering the higher outlay?

colm_mcm

Deleted User wrote: »

If there's less energy per litre what's the advantage unless there's large savings on fuel considering the higher outlay?

It’s usually around half the price per litre, petrol has dropped a good bit this year.

Big advantage of LPG vs petrol is the emissions are cleaner in terms of nox.

The actual production of it is cleaner too.

John.G

LPG contains ~ 70% of the energy of petrol so easy to calculate. All modern LPG fuelled engines are now injected but I wouldn't expect any gains in efficiency. LPG fuelled cars were dual fuel, one reason being that you required a little heat from the engine coolant to vaporise the (liquid) LPG but it should be relatively easy to use a electric powered vaporiser until the coolant temp rose a little. Wonder if the Dacia is LPG fuelled only? or are there any LPG (fuelled) cars only sold.

Ubbquittious

John.G wrote: »

LPG contains ~ 70% of the energy of petrol so easy to calculate. All modern LPG fuelled engines are now injected but I wouldn't expect any gains in efficiency. LPG fuelled cars were dual fuel, one reason being that you required a little heat from the engine coolant to vaporise the (liquid) LPG but it should be relatively easy to use a electric powered vaporiser until the coolant temp rose a little. Wonder if the Dacia is LPG fuelled only? or are there any LPG (fuelled) cars only sold.

Are electric vapourisers common? I have the usual heat exchanger, start on petrol and switch to lpg after about 1km

Apparently there is less engine wear if you are able to start on gas instead of petrol

John.G

I don't even know if LPG ONLY is available, also with LPG injection it may be that it is injected in liquid form (like petrol), it that case no vaporiser would be required so there is no reason IMO to have the (manufacturers) expense of dual fuelling.

Ubbquittious

Anyone buy one or seen one yet? I think it's only the ""premium"" version of the Stepway that has it in Ireland, costing about 16k

mikeecho

Going slightly off track, but are there any diesel/lpg vehicles out there.


i see this gang https://www.ozonlpg.com/diesellpg.html do a diesel to lpg , but is it reliable ?

colm_mcm

mikeecho wrote: »

Going slightly off track, but are there any diesel/lpg vehicles out there.


i see this gang https://www.ozonlpg.com/diesellpg.html do a diesel to lpg , but is it reliable ?

They’re saying you use 20% gas and 80% diesel. They also claim to offer fuel savings of 25%, which is impossible even if you got the gas for free.

zg3409

I looked seriously into LPG conversion a few years ago. Main downsides were conversion cost, lack of LPG filling locations (there is one in my town) , opening times of filling stations (sat morning was only time that suited me), and the issue of reselling a converted vehicle used, there is also reliability concerns of engine wear.

If you look at used LPG cars for sale many have big engines, high mileage and are not selling . You may end up.paying a premium for insurance too as some companies would not quote me. Cheapest would be to get a dual fuel used and drive into ground, but diesel may give a petrol/LPG a run for its money. In the end I delayed and went full electric with second petrol car for long trips. I fill up electric overnight for 2 euro to do daily commute of 110km round trip.

I could not see an LPG only car working in Ireland.

CiniO

John.G wrote: »

LPG contains ~ 70% of the energy of petrol so easy to calculate. All modern LPG fuelled engines are now injected but I wouldn't expect any gains in efficiency. LPG fuelled cars were dual fuel, one reason being that you required a little heat from the engine coolant to vaporise the (liquid) LPG but it should be relatively easy to use a electric powered vaporiser until the coolant temp rose a little. Wonder if the Dacia is LPG fuelled only? or are there any LPG (fuelled) cars only sold.

No, they are duel fuel.
It's pretty much a conversion like indy garages offer when converting cars to LPG, but it's done by manufacturer, so no problems with car warranty and it's bit more integrated (f.e. LPG fuel gauge at the dashboard display).

CiniO

John.G wrote: »

I don't even know if LPG ONLY is available, also with LPG injection it may be that it is injected in liquid form (like petrol), it that case no vaporiser would be required so there is no reason IMO to have the (manufacturers) expense of dual fuelling.

Never heard of it, but definitely Dacia would use regular injection with vaporiser.
I don't even know why is that called "injection" as gas is delivered to intake manifold in gas form (not liquid) so nothing really gets injected, and so called injectors just dose right amount of gas.

CiniO

IMO price difference between LPG and petrol is too little to make it worth using LPG car in Ireland.
Small availablility of places selling LPG is also not helping.

If I had a station where they sell LPG at around €0.70 (as this seems to be lowest on the list from OP) and I would be able to make sure I always fill there then maybe it would made sense.
But filling LPG at €1.00 once petrol can be bought at €1.25 is completely pointless, as LPG usage will be on average 20% higher than petrol usage.

Also worth mentioning is that LPG needs extra maintenance (change of gas filters, more frequent change of air filter, spark plugs), and eventually might lead to faster wear on valves in the engine.


I currently have 2 cars running on LPG (both Honda CRV 2.0) but it's in Poland, where LPG costs about 40% of price of petrol, and is available on nearly every single petrol station in the country.
Conversion cost me about €700 per car, but with savings of around €5 per 100km, conversion is paid for in less than 15k kilometres, and then there is a saving of about €500 per every 10k kilometres. Definitely works well for me here.

Wouldn't try it in Ireland though, with expensive and hardly availble LPG filling stations.

CoBo55

CiniO wrote: »

IMO price difference between LPG and petrol is too little to make it worth using LPG car in Ireland.
Small availablility of places selling LPG is also not helping.

If I had a station where they sell LPG at around €0.70 (as this seems to be lowest on the list from OP) and I would be able to make sure I always fill there then maybe it would made sense.
But filling LPG at €1.00 once petrol can be bought at €1.25 is completely pointless, as LPG usage will be on average 20% higher than petrol usage.

Also worth mentioning is that LPG needs extra maintenance (change of gas filters, more frequent change of air filter, spark plugs), and eventually might lead to faster wear on valves in the engine.


I currently have 2 cars running on LPG (both Honda CRV 2.0) but it's in Poland, where LPG costs about 40% of price of petrol, and is available on nearly every single petrol station in the country.
Conversion cost me about €700 per car, but with savings of around €5 per 100km, conversion is paid for in less than 15k kilometres, and then there is a saving of about €500 per every 10k kilometres. Definitely works well for me here.

Wouldn't try it in Ireland though, with expensive and hardly availble LPG filling stations.

Why would you need to change the air filter more frequently? Oil change intervals can be extended as lpg burns much cleaner than petrol and doesn't contaminate the oil as quickly. A different grade of spark plug is used ( colder I think) so they last as long as the petrol equivalent.