Ethical dilemma re work placement for adult with intellectual disability

mr chips

Hi all, as per title I'm in a bit of a dilemma and would welcome some input. It's a bit complicated, so apologies in advance for the length of the post to come.

Background - I'm starting a new business, whose opening has been delayed by the lockdown etc but which is finally due to start trading next month. It's something I've been working towards for well over a year by now.

In August last year, I had been talking to someone I know who works with a local voluntary organisation which supports adults with learning disability in finding sheltered housing, work placements, supported employment etc. We ended up discussing the possibility that one of the service users there might benefit from starting a voluntary (i.e. unpaid) work placement out at my place, doing things like cutting grass, painting fences etc. This would amount to somewhere between 2-4 hours per week. I'll call the person Paddy (not his real name). He has mild/moderate intellectual disability, but would be reasonably capable and independent - however he is & will always be under the care of his family. My buddy put me in touch with Paddy's support worker, whom I'll call Catherine, to see if we could sort something out.

I was (and to be honest, still am) fairly uncomfortable at the idea that someone would come and do work for me free of charge. I understand that there are benefits for "Paddy" in terms of developing social skills, having something constructive to do and so on. At the same time, it still feels exploitative - I knew he wouldn't be getting paid for the work he does, at least not for a few months until I have enough money coming in to afford it. While the same applies to me (i.e. I won't be taking an income from the business until I'm over the hump of start-up costs and can cover running costs) at least that's my choice as it's my own business. My intention would be that once I can be paid, he can be paid, even though that still feels a bit like weaselling out of doing the right thing from the outset. But at the end of the day, during the startup phase the option is either that he would do this work unpaid until probably the end of the summer, or else I continue to do it myself and he doesn't come here at all until I can offer him paid hours.

Anyway - after talking all this through back in August with "Catherine" and with "Paddy" himself, we agreed that he would start with me on an unpaid basis in April, hopefully progressing into paid work by July/August. Of course, like I said the pandemic lockdown has since thrown all plans into disarray, so when that happened myself and Catherine agreed that the placement wouldn't start until things were back on track.

Now for the second part. Going back to last August, I knew that it would be well into the spring before any work placement could start with me, but as my wife is the boss at her place of work, I had asked her if she could think of any role for Paddy which might provide some paid work - similar kind of idea, doing a few hours per week of low-level maintenance, painting etc. She worked out that he could do this under the supervision of the caretaker and after going through all the same kind of preparatory discussions as I'd had, that placement started last autumn and is still going on. Paddy only gets minimum wage there, but it's the first time he's actually earned anything so he's happy doing two or three hours a week.

However - when I spoke to Catherine at the start of this month to let her know that I now expected the work placement with me could start in the second half of July coming, within a day or so she came back to explain that now he had started earning a few quid, Paddy had decided that any other work placement he does should be paid and that this idea has, in her words, "really taken hold". I said that was fine from my perspective, that I absolutely wouldn't be pushing for him to come here and I that only want him here if he wants to be here. But it would mean I can't offer him any work placement for another few months, until I have the money to pay him. Catherine really wants him to start the placement anyway, as does Paddy's mother "Orla" who is his primary carer, but apparently he has become very reluctant to do anything unpaid. From what Catherine was saying at this point (early June), I started to get the impression that Paddy was now being pressured into coming here, so I reiterated as tactfully as possible that it wasn't a case of me wanting to get some grass-cutting done for free, and that I would only want him coming to work here if he himself was keen to come. So we left it at that.

Fast forward to today - Catherine phoned to say that she'd tried to persuade Paddy that coming to a voluntary placement here would still be very good for him, but that he was still insistent that any work he does should be paid. Catherine then told me that Paddy's mother "Orla" had suggested she could put some money into his account every week to let him think that he's being paid by me for working here, that Orla puts money into Paddy's bank account every week anyway, but was suggesting this way he would believe it was coming from the work he'd be doing here.

I have to say I didn't feel right about this at all, as it would require me to have to lie to Paddy and pretend that I'm the one paying him. Myself and Catherine talked it over but I just couldn't get past that, so it was left that Catherine would explain this to Orla. A short while later, Catherine rang me again to say that Orla has now told Paddy that while I couldn't pay him because of how so many businesses are struggling with the effects of the lockdown, I still really wanted him to come and do the work here anyway, and that I had been asking specifically for him. So he has now finally agreed to come out here after all and work for me without pay.

I know she's his mam and is probably trying to do something good for her son, but I have to say this is ringing all sorts of alarm bells for me about exploitation and deception. I was at pains to point out that I didn't want to force him to come here, but now Paddy has effectively been hoodwinked into working for me for nothing when he (rightly) wants to be paid for the work he does. I'm not a good liar at all, and I don't want to be either. I'm really at a loss as to how to proceed from here. I don't want to turn round and tell Paddy that he can't come here after all, but I don't want him cajoled into being here either. I also don't want to be put into any situation I'm not comfortable with.

I'd be glad of input from anyone who has experience of working with vulnerable adults, especially people with intellectual disability. Apologies again for such a long post.

looksee

That's an interesting post mr chips, and even though I have no immediate experience of this situation myself, I entirely sympathise with your point of view. I also agree with you that as Paddy has enough awareness to appreciate being paid for his labour then he really should be paid for it.

I have said I don't have any first hand experience of this situation, the nearest would be giving a young person work experience. I will not say 'employing' as it really was a liability in a one person firm and effectively cost me money in lost work time of my own; I did it because I wanted to help, and karma repaid me in spades However I would hesitate to use words like exploitation and deception and hoodwinked in this situation. I don't mean by that that you should take him on and not pay him when it goes against the grain with both of you, I just don't think you should regard yourself as potentially being exploitative. I don't agree with Orla's payment solution either. And she really should not have - admittedly with the best intentions - got so involved in the argument, now both of you are being pushed around a bit.

I suspect he would soon become resentful of working for nothing now he has his eye set on a wage, and, as a reluctant worker, could even be a liability.

Would it be a good idea to talk to him and to Catherine without his mother? Put it to him that you would like to employ him but don't have the money at the moment and if he would like to wait until the Covid situation is over you will then take him on, paid, for a few hours. See how he responds. Let him persuade you to give him a few hours unpaid work until the situation changes, or let him accept that there is no job for now, but the situation is within his control.

These are just thoughts, in no way any sort of informed opinions.

mr chips

Many thanks for the reply. You make a very good point about him having the awareness to appreciate being paid for his labour. Ultimately, if someone is giving of their time & effort for me then I don't see why them having any sort of disability would be an excuse not to remunerate them for their work. So long as he's able to cut the grass without damaging trees or the mower - or himself, of course! - then he's delivering the same value for me as a non-disabled person would. He's allowed to do something like fifteen or sixteen hours a week without it affecting any social security payments he receives, so that won't be a factor.

Your suggestion is pretty much along the lines of how I think I'll handle it - I want to be upfront and let him know that I would like him to work here (which I would), but it has to be his choice to do that. I'm just a bit irked at the notion that deceiving him would be an acceptable way forward, and also at the fact that words were put in my mouth which were very much the opposite of what I'd been saying all along. So I think I'll have to have a quiet word with the support worker and possibly with the mother as well about not speaking out of turn on my behalf.

I've no experience here what so ever, but could he work both jobs? Paid in the current one and subsidised in the meantime while helping you out. With a view to you being able to pay him in the near future. 2 to 3 hours a week in each role sounds doable.

thisistough

mr chips wrote: »

Your suggestion is pretty much along the lines of how I think I'll handle it - I want to be upfront and let him know that I would like him to work here (which I would), but it has to be his choice to do that. I'm just a bit irked at the notion that deceiving him would be an acceptable way forward, and also at the fact that words were put in my mouth which were very much the opposite of what I'd been saying all along. So I think I'll have to have a quiet word with the support worker and possibly with the mother as well about not speaking out of turn on my behalf.

Your instincts sound good OP. His having a disability does not make him a child, and does not mean he should be excluded from conversations. I would have a conversation with him, along with the support worker and mother if necessary to ensure that no wires get crossed. Let him know that you agree that his efforts are worthy of reward and the position will be waiting for him when you’re in a position to pay him for it.

There are government supports available for employers of those with disabilities in some instances, but I don’t know enough about it to know if anything would apply here. The link here might be a good starting point if you’re looking to find someone to talk to

https://dbei.gov.ie/en/What-We-Do/Workplace-and-Skills/Employment-of-people-with-disabilities/

Red Hare

I think that catherine is involving you in a social care situation that she is being paid to deal with and is/ should be qualified to deal with in her employment supported by her management. ask Catherine to discuss these matters with her manager.

If you want to host paddy as a Volunteer you should make a policy to cover insurance, training, risk assessment and safety statement etc. This policy should risk assess coercion, manipulation and its interaction with his intellectual disability and you should give Paddy a copy of your safety statement. If you Want to employ Paddy then you should if he wants to work for you but based on the posts above i wonder if his mother needs a break and will pay for it if you take paddy off her hands. That make you a respite worker not a business imho.

Catherine should be able to deal with these issues.

skooterblue2

mr chips wrote: »

Hi all, as per title I'm in a bit of a dilemma and would welcome some input. It's a bit complicated, so apologies in advance for the length of the post to come.

I'd be glad of input from anyone who has experience of working with vulnerable adults, especially people with intellectual disability. Apologies again for such a long post.

Hi, On the spectrum myself so fair play to you for giving someone else the chance. Your post is too complex for me to follow.
Can I say have you looked at "Employability"? Its funded by the Dept of Social protection. They have a scheme upto 20-22 hours that they will support you and him in the transition to work. They will subsidise half of his wage, extra training etc etc. Sit down and talk to them, get yourself and himself on the scheme.

mr chips

Thanks for the subsequent replies folks. I'm actually based in NI, so any employment support schemes etc will be a bit different here - however I will look into it and see what can be accessed here.

I'm not sure there's a need to have a lot of policies around training etc - ultimately, this is just two or three hours a week and most of the time it will just be spent mowing grass, and occasionally there will be painting/staining of external timber, e.g. fences etc. We had talked about other possible tasks but that was all he was interested in, so that's fine.

The support worker was supposed to contact me by today to arrange a visit, but hasn't done so yet. If I don't hear from her tomorrow then I'll probably chase her up next week.

CiDeRmAn

From a capacity point of view, he is entitled to have his opinion listened to and considered, and it's heartening to see it respected so here.
Having worked in ID services for some 30 years I remember the unpaid labour many of our residents were engaged in for no pay, only pocket money, yet the products of their work was sold in DIY shops all over the country by brands.
This was considered a form of OT and was done away with when it was realised it was a form of exploitation.

If he had a lighter initial workload, and this seen as intern or probationary work, formally, and then the paid work subsequently.
Alternatively, simply only employing him when the work can be paid for.
Either way, a discussion with him and his advocate, be it a social worker or other party, not necessarily his mother, would be essential as it is ultimately his decision

mr chips

Thanks for that. Yeah, that's pretty much my thinking. I won't go into specifics, but nearly 20 years ago I encountered a situation similar to what you're describing and it always stuck with me - people with physical and/or learning disabilities doing the exact same work as non-disabled people, but only getting an extra tenner a week on top of their social security-derived disability payment, while their colleagues got full time pay even though there was absolutely no difference in the workload.
Anyway, the three of them will be here in just over a couple of weeks' time to talk things through, so that'll be my chance to make my views clear without stirring up trouble either between anyone (I hope!).