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14 year old rugby player benches 110kg

  • 21-06-2020 5:33pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    How does this compare to the adult players strength in rugby ? How important is strength/physicality in the modern game ?



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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,743 ✭✭✭ Heres Johnny


    dor843088 wrote: »
    How does this compare to the adult players strength in rugby ? How important is strength/physicality in the modern game ?


    It's a great bench press without doubt but my own bench press hasn't increased greatly since I was aged 16 or 17, just developed strength early and was in the 100kg club pretty quickly after starting weight training. Plateaued at around the 140-150kg press that most in my club did too, haven't seen many go through that weight since.

    Late 30s now and still max out at about 140 but prefer doing other stuff instead of chasing a max bench.

    When we hit the gym and did weights in static environment like that our power on rugby pitch didn't reflect the gym gains. Moved to some more explosive exercises and rugby specific stuff like sledge pulls and it made bigger difference.

    Power is important but rugby skills and speed are importanter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭ Tim Robbins


    dor843088 wrote: »
    How does this compare to the adult players strength in rugby ? How important is strength/physicality in the modern game ?


    I thought 14 was too young to be doing weights (shows how much I know?).

    To answer your question, in the Pro game strength extremely important.
    But it is all professionally managed depending on your position you need different types of strength.

    In the kids game, it's been a long while since I played it :-)


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,051 Mod ✭✭✭✭ riffmongous


    Not rugby specific but there are strength standards based off of lifters here https://strengthlevel.com/

    I'm not sure how accurate it really is, but seems realistic enough to me


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    It seems to me the game is heading in a more physicality direction. See England, South Africa . If you cant dominate the contact you usually lose the game.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    dor843088 wrote: »
    It seems to me the game is heading in a more physicality direction. See England, South Africa . If you cant dominate the contact you usually lose the game.

    I used to know an IRB drug tester, and she said that steroid usage in youth rugby was a major problem in SA. Not sure how much that has changed in the last decade or so.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,582 ✭✭✭✭ partyjungle


    dor843088 wrote: »
    How does this compare to the adult players strength in rugby ? How important is strength/physicality in the modern game ?


    How accident prone is that spotter :D:D:D

    Knocks down a red thing going behind and launches a white thing on his way out


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    Basil3 wrote: »
    I used to know an IRB drug tester, and she said that steroid usage in youth rugby was a major problem in SA. Not sure how much that has changed in the last decade or so.

    Steroid usage is a major problem in all sports with a physicality element. Rugby is no different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    How accident prone is that spotter :D:D:D

    Knocks down a red thing going behind and launches a white thing on his way out

    Thanks for pointing that out out mate :o . It is a shed at the end of the day and the actual spot was first class :cool:


  • Subscribers Posts: 36,251 ✭✭✭✭ sydthebeat


    let me guess, hes playing as a centre currently ??? :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,147 ✭✭✭ daithi7


    That's good, but let me tell you about training back in my day....;)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,815 D14Rugby


    Obviously strength is important in so far as it's a contact sport but the contact in rugby is increasingly becoming more power based and even then that sort of stuff is really just a bonus to go with your basic skills and tactical knowledge.

    You can play rugby if you can't bench a lot but have a good skill set and good game knowledge while if you don't have those but can bench a lot it's not really much use.

    Obviously its no harm to work on strength/power but it's not as big a deal as some would have you believe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    let me guess, hes playing as a centre currently ??? :D

    How did you know ? :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 258 ✭✭ RuPi


    D14Rugby wrote: »
    Obviously strength is important in so far as it's a contact sport but the contact in rugby is increasingly becoming more power based and even then that sort of stuff is really just a bonus to go with your basic skills and tactical knowledge.

    You can play rugby if you can't bench a lot but have a good skill set and good game knowledge while if you don't have those but can bench a lot it's not really much use.

    Obviously its no harm to work on strength/power but it's not as big a deal as some would have you believe.

    Nail on the head. I would say most coaches at under 14 and under 15 would be more impressed if he could spin pass accurately 8 metres or further off both hands, use footwork before contact, scan to see space, execute a 2 v 1.


  • Registered Users Posts: 804 ✭✭✭ hahashake


    People are mentioning power, speed and skills but aerobic fitness is severely underrated. Hard to use that power when you are only operating at 50% late in the game.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    RuPi wrote: »
    Nail on the head. I would say most coaches at under 14 and under 15 would be more impressed if he could spin pass accurately 8 metres or further off both hands, use footwork before contact, scan to see space, execute a 2 v 1.
    big time. There is plenty at older grades as well who should think like this.
    Accurate passing off each hand from 7/8 metres plus for 14 and 15 year olds is far more impressive.
    More than enough time to build strength later years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    His spin pass is accurate off both hands 10 metres. Decision making is good. Sub 5 minute bronco test. Excellent tackling. Good jackaler.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,218 ✭✭✭✭ bilston


    I was always told as a kid that doing weights before 16 risked stunting your growth. But then I was 16 in the 90s and I'm sure sports science has come a long way since.

    Good luck to the lad.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    bilston wrote: »
    I was always told as a kid that doing weights before 16 risked stunting your growth. But then I was 16 in the 90s and I'm sure sports science has come a long way since.

    Good luck to the lad.

    Yea I hear that often. If anyone has any scientific research to suggest that I'd be quite happy to take a look. There isn't any. I'm quite sure lads in the front row experience much larger forces on their bodies/spines than any weightlifting could produce so I'm happy to let him continue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭ Tim Robbins


    dor843088 wrote: »
    His spin pass is accurate off both hands 10 metres. Decision making is good. Sub 5 minute bronco test. Excellent tackling. Good jackaler.

    What school / club is he with?

    I played youths with a bunch of lads that age. 50% of them ended up going to Rugby schools got much better coaching and were miles ahead of most of us. Why? Their technique and reading of them was far superior.

    Then a few years later a load of them had given up and had no interest in the game.

    I am still involved in the sport as a ref. But I love it. Think I'd also be a good coach but don't have the time for both.

    So some lessons for me.
    1. The ability of the coach is so important in player development in rugby. The schools lads had professional coaches.
    2. Focus too much on something when you are young and you might be sick of it when drinking, socialising comes along and the glamour aspect of the game isn't there.
    3. It doesn't really matter sometimes how good you are. I was better at Soccer than I was at Rugby. But, I preferred Rugby and found a role in the sport where my lack of explosive strength wasn't an issue but an ability to read a game and general fitness was a plus.


  • Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭ Lucas44


    To answer the original question, his strength matches up with an interprovincial player in his position at u18s or so, some school players may be stronger due to the access to S&C coaches and gyms 5 days a week... best advice I could give is to get him playing with the age group above or maybe two ages if possible, he’s certainly strong enough to hold his own and when he goes to play games with his own age group he will notice a considerable difference between pace of the game and quality.. makes every player much better and will give him the chance of making it


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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    What school / club is he with?

    I played youths with a bunch of lads that age. 50% of them ended up going to Rugby schools got much better coaching and were miles ahead of most of us. Why? Their technique and reading of them was far superior.

    Then a few years later a load of them had given up and had no interest in the game.

    I am still involved in the sport as a ref. But I love it. Think I'd also be a good coach but don't have the time for both.

    So some lessons for me.
    1. The ability of the coach is so important in player development in rugby. The schools lads had professional coaches.
    2. Focus too much on something when you are young and you might be sick of it when drinking, socialising comes along and the glamour aspect of the game isn't there.
    3. It doesn't really matter sometimes how good you are. I was better at Soccer than I was at Rugby. But, I preferred Rugby and found a role in the sport where my lack of explosive strength wasn't an issue but an ability to read a game and general fitness was a plus.
    you really over do the comparisons with clubs and schools too often Tim...
    Not all schools coaching is all that good...
    Lucas44 wrote: »
    To answer the original question, his strength matches up with an interprovincial player in his position at u18s or so, some school players may be stronger due to the access to S&C coaches and gyms 5 days a week... best advice I could give is to get him playing with the age group above or maybe two ages if possible, he’s certainly strong enough to hold his own and when he goes to play games with his own age group he will notice a considerable difference between pace of the game and quality.. makes every player much better and will give him the chance of making it
    theres lot more in clubs doing s&c, etc.
    But playing up sometimes can be far more detrimental than anything else. Especially a 14 year old.


  • Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭ Lucas44


    you really over do the comparisons with clubs and schools too often Tim...
    Not all schools coaching is all that good...

    theres lot more in clubs doing s&c, etc.
    But playing up sometimes can be far more detrimental than anything else. Especially a 14 year old.

    I think you’ll find there’s very very little clubs doing S&C before u18s whereas schools will be pumping lads in the gym from junior cup onwards which can be second year for some... Playing up an age grade for someone strong enough is no harm think you’ll find nearly every pro rugby player played either u16 as a 15 year old or jct in second year or sct in fourth year or even look at Karl Martin from
    Boyne playing two years above his age for Ireland u18... it definitely improves players for when they play at their own age and gets them ready for eventually senior rugby at 18


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Lucas44 wrote: »
    I think you’ll find there’s very very little clubs doing S&C before u18s whereas schools will be pumping lads in the gym from junior cup onwards which can be second year for some... Playing up an age grade for someone strong enough is no harm think you’ll find nearly every pro rugby player played either u16 as a 15 year old or jct in second year or sct in fourth year or even look at Karl Martin from
    Boyne playing two years above his age for Ireland u18... it definitely improves players for when they play at their own age and gets them ready for eventually senior rugby at 18
    playing up one year is fine but two in many cases isnt.
    And from my experience high enough numbers club players are doing S&c before 18s


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭ Tim Robbins


    Lucas44 wrote: »
    I think you’ll find there’s very very little clubs doing S&C before u18s whereas schools will be pumping lads in the gym from junior cup onwards which can be second year for some... Playing up an age grade for someone strong enough is no harm think you’ll find nearly every pro rugby player played either u16 as a 15 year old or jct in second year or sct in fourth year or even look at Karl Martin from
    Boyne playing two years above his age for Ireland u18... it definitely improves players for when they play at their own age and gets them ready for eventually senior rugby at 18

    Youths is generally someone's Dad coaching the team. Some of them do all the IRFU courses and are really good. Other's are doing a job no-one else wants to do.

    The top Rugby schools have professional coaches and are by and large outstanding.

    For me that's why Schools is a much higher standard. Youths has caught up a lot and will always produce quality players. The gap is closing and a decent youths team will give any School a run for their money of not beat them but in general if you took the top 20 SCT schools and the top 20 clubs, my money would be the schools would win at least 16 of those matches.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ madds


    That's pretty impressive for a lad his age.
    Think I recognise him from an U14 game we played against ye last Nov (friendly). Plays for a Midlands club? I'm a coach with Barnhall's U14's.


  • Registered Users Posts: 360 ✭✭ Lucas44


    playing up one year is fine but two in many cases isnt.
    And from my experience high enough numbers club players are doing S&c before 18s

    I’m not saying there not, the problem you’ll find is club players may have 20% of the team in the gym from 15-16 onwards but only once maybe twice a week doing their own thing (not accounting for the odd meat head on every team) , school players are hitting the gym 3-5 weeks with an s&c coach giving them tailored programmes and nutritional plans based on their goals going forward.. thus schools players at u18-19 are far more physically developed than club players


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,967 ✭✭✭✭ The Lost Sheep


    Youths is generally someone's Dad coaching the team. Some of them do all the IRFU courses and are really good. Other's are doing a job no-one else wants to do.

    The top Rugby schools have professional coaches and are by and large outstanding.

    For me that's why Schools is a much higher standard. Youths has caught up a lot and will always produce quality players. The gap is closing and a decent youths team will give any School a run for their money of not beat them but in general if you took the top 20 SCT schools and the top 20 clubs, my money would be the schools would win at least 16 of those matches.
    once again big generalisations there. Youths isnt as much just someone's dad anymore and the coaching has improved a lot with coaches being much more knowledgeable now than ever before.comparing top schools and top club sides isnt really a fair comparison in leinster but is more in the other provinces


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,882 ✭✭✭ madds


    I think you're both right. Many of the lads who played in the AIL during the late 90's and 2000's have sons and daughters who are now playing Mini or Youth rugby. Their playing days are over but they want to stay involved and want their kids to enjoy the sport they loved, but also receive good quality coaching. If I look at my own club, the number of coaches now involved at Youth/Mini level who played AIL rugby is huge compared to those involved ten or fifteen years ago.

    That said, schools teams will always have the edge as they are training ~5 times a week versus a club team who train at most twice a week with a match at the weekend. It's a skill-based game and you can't beat time on the pitch. The gap is not as wide as it once was though.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,731 ✭✭✭ Tim Robbins


    madds wrote: »
    I think you're both right. Many of the lads who played in the AIL during the late 90's and 2000's have sons and daughters who are now playing Mini or Youth rugby. Their playing days are over but they want to stay involved and want their kids to enjoy the sport they loved, but also receive good quality coaching. If I look at my own club, the number of coaches now involved at Youth/Mini level who played AIL rugby is huge compared to those involved ten or fifteen years ago.

    That said, schools teams will always have the edge as they are training ~5 times a week versus a club team who train at most twice a week with a match at the weekend. It's a skill-based game and you can't beat time on the pitch. The gap is not as wide as it once was though.
    Barnhall are also a bit of a blip. From my experience, they always put out strong teams, with decent coaches. I would say there are usually at the same standard of a Section B school and their stronger teams would be stronger again.

    It's a big catchment area and club is well run.

    They are one of the few AIL clubs, especially in Leinster, with no obvious link to a Rugby school.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,166 ✭✭✭ dor843088


    madds wrote: »
    That's pretty impressive for a lad his age.
    Think I recognise him from an U14 game we played against ye last Nov (friendly). Plays for a Midlands club? I'm a coach with Barnhall's U14's.

    Yea that's right I remember that game. Rather forget it :D


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