Border patrols

Shelflife

I was watching one of those Stop seize search programs and on one of them they had a joint operation between the Gardai and the Northern Irish police , both had armed units there.

If a stop went out of control and a gun fight broke out on say the Irish side of the border, would the NI police be able to come to their aid in the gun fight as in cross the border and fire on the gunmen or would they have to just watch it happen?

coylemj

If the PSNI crossed the border to assist the Gardai in that scenario, they would be acting as civilians and would have no right to carry their firearms over the border, let alone use them.

In March 1977, eight SAS soldiers were convicted in the Special Criminal Court in Dublin of being in possesion of firearms without a certificate after they strayed across the border and were arrested. They were fined £100 each.

If a gun fight broke out on their republican side of the border, rest assured the psni would not get involved. In fact, you wouldn't see them for dust as they return to their barracks.

They are two different jurisdictions & neither police have any authority in the other jurisdiction.

coylemj

Garret Fitzgerald floated the idea back in the 1980s that some kind of 'hot pursuit' provision be provided for but FF and Charlie Haughey used it against him by stretching the scenario to the limits for political gain. They made out that if it was implemented, the RUC (as they were then) could chase a guy as far as Kerry and arrest him! It was during a general election and Charlie Haughey claimed that he met an old woman in Kerry who asked him: 'Mr. Haughey, does mean the RIC are coming back?'

So the proposal went nowhere.

Shelflife

It’s hard to know what the bigger outcry would be over if it happened.

That they stood idly by when they could have intervened and saved the lives of the Gardaí

Or

That they saved the lives of the Gardaí but crossed the border to do so !

GerardKeating

coylemj wrote: »

If the PSNI crossed the border to assist the Gardai in that scenario, they would be acting as civilians and would have no right to carry their firearms over the border, let alone use them.

Certain private civilians can carry guns in Ireland, in theory the government could give them firearms certificates to carry guns on this side of the border.

coylemj

GerardKeating wrote: »

.... in theory the government could give them firearms certificates to carry guns on this side of the border.

Remind me, when are we having the commemoration ceremony for the Black and Tans?

BattleCorp

GerardKeating wrote: »

Certain private civilians can carry guns in Ireland, in theory the government could give them firearms certificates to carry guns on this side of the border.

I'd imagine that is for a specified purpose such as guarding the Queen etc. They can't really give blanket approval for all NI security forces to carry and use their firearms in the Republic.

Victor

I'm not sure that the PSNI (or the Garda in the reverse situation) would stand idly by.

BattleCorp wrote: »

I'd imagine that is for a specified purpose such as guarding the Queen etc.

Specified PSNI officers, e.g. Drew Harris's protection team and likely any officers seconded from the PSNI to the Garda, have licences issued by the minister, likely with personal protection being the primary reason.

Officers on designated cross-border operations, e.g. the raid on 'Slab' Murphy's farm may also have such licences.

They can't really give blanket approval for all NI security forces to carry and use their firearms in the Republic.

Agreed.


I wonder if the Loughs Agency has any armed officers. They are allowed operate on both sides of the border, much to the chagrin of some.

Victor

Victor wrote: »

I wonder if the Loughs Agency has any armed officers. They are allowed operate on both sides of the border, much to the chagrin of some.

No. They don't. Not in the south anyway.