Opinions on disagreement with wife

LegacyUser

I'd like to get opinions on an ongoing spat I have with my wife. She regularly brings up a couple of incidents from almost a year ago as a criticism of my character.

1. We are at a dinner party to friends of mine and my wife starts running down where we live and the local schools saying there's alot of drug abuse and how she wouldn't want our son educated there. Friends chuckle at the naievity and says even in the so called good areas and school's there are drug problems (friends wife is a teacher so knows what she's talking about). I bought and paid for my house without my wife ever contributing a red cent so I take my wife's comments as an insult - I've lived there for close on 20 years without ever experiencing anti social issues. I also spent alot of money renovating it to her preferences. In my opinion my wife's remarks reflects a certain snobbishness that my parents made sure was drilled out of me growing up. On the drive home I remark that I didn't appreciate her comment and mentioned how my friends almost scoffed at her naievity. I asked that she stop continuously running down where we live (she frequently makes comments about wanting to move to Castleknock).She takes my criticism as an attempt to control her / dismiss her opinion.

2. On my family WhatsApp two of my brothers are getting into a heated disagreement. My wife moves to put her oar in so I ask her not to get involved knowing how my brothers can be. I don't want my parents witnessing an all out disagreement if I can avoid it. She takes grave exception to this and mutes the family WhatsApp forevermore because I attempted to muffle her opinion.

I've tried to explain why I acted the way I did explaining, for example, that I would never dream of getting involved in an argument between her family members no matter how strongly I felt on the topic.

Am I unreasonable in wanting her to be a little more respectful about where we live and towards my wishes not to get involved in family arguments which have the potential to fester? The fact she brings this up regularly and seems to dismiss my wishes makes me question our compatibility.

Thelonious Monk

Well from what you're telling us it doesn't sound like you're being unreasonable at all. The thing is we're only hearing one side of the story here and people on this forum will always make things out to sound completely one sided so that posters tell them they're right and that the other party is bad, and you'll usually get the answers you want to hear. However your wife probably has a totally different experience of these issues.
You have to be completely honest with yourself don't believe your own lies if you're trying to justify certain things or ways you may behave.

But it does sound like some kind of resentment is there between you, especially if you're questioning your compatibility.
Are you able to communicate effectively? How is the rest of your relationship? Are there any other issues and are disagreements common?

I'll also throw the token couples counselling suggestion out there. As someone who's recently been speaking with a therapist for non relationship related issues, it really is a great thing.

Anyway best of luck and I hope it works out for you and your wife.

skallywag

It certainly does not sound to me that you are trying to control her, based on what you have said.

It does however sound like she is trying to play the control card though. There are certainly genuine situations where someone in a relationship will be suffering from a controlling partner, and I do not in any way mean to belittle that. It is unfortunately the case though that some will decide to use 'control' as a buzzword to fire at a partner, when it is completely not justified.

Concerning the school/area topic, I certainly do not wish to be disrespectful to you OP, but your wife seems like a real snob. I would also be humiliated if my other half behaved like that in front of our friends, and then gets into a strop about it afterwards when I pulled her up on it.

Concerning the family situation, it would also clearly be wrong for her to throw her spanner into that one, nothing good tends to come from such things.

I actually would say that I know quite a few women who behave like your wife does, so it is certainly not all that uncommon. Their husbands just tend to throw their eyes to heaven a lot, and generally keep quiet and get on with things.

So in conclusion I do not think that you are being unreasonable at all. As to how to move on though, I am afraid I cannot offer much in the way of advice. In my experience people like this do not tend to change for the better. You may need to bite your lip and soldier on.

antix80

The jibes about the house in front of people.. I've seen a few women do this.
I think you need to have a discussion with her. Where does she want to live? Would you be agreeable to moving? Can you afford it? There needs to be dialogue.. Don't lead her on but don't dismiss her either. Maybe it's you who identifies too much with a house that isn't perfect.

As for the family group.. Make a new one just for you and your brothers. Have your arguments and banter in that group and keep the wives in a more civil group.

Tork

I'd love to hear her side of the story too. What you've told us doesn't paint a flattering picture of her but there have to be good reasons why you married her. If these are symptoms of bigger problems in the marriage, I think the pair of you should consider couples counselling.

Something that caught my eye was your comment about you buying the house without your wife contributing any money. Does she pay anything towards the running of the household now? Does she chip in towards the mortgage? If not, why?

strandroad

It really hard to say without the context OP, she may or may not have a point.

1. Are you in a recognised higher drug activity area? Yes there are drugs in schools all over, but in some areas kids are a lot more exposed to dealing as a career or to becoming a gang pawn than in others.
Were you to move to a better area, would she pay her share or would she expect you to fund it?

2. I would expect that if you're in a group you have the right to take part in any discussion happening there. If you feel that your close family discussions are off limits, create an inner circle group, problem solved. But if your brothers decide to feud in a larger group, it's on them and they may hear things they don't like. Was it the right thing for her to speak up, again hard to say without knowing the context.

LegacyUser

Thanks for all your replies.

Thelonious Monk - I appreciate you are hearing only one side and I'd like to show my wife this thread, however, I did something similar years ago with another relationship issues thread and she threw a fit. I honestly don't understand why she wouldn't want the perspective of an unbiased observer. Unfortunately my marriage is going down the tubes and this spat is the least of my concerns. I just wanted to get a sense where the fault for it all lies given these are the things she raises during our heated rows. I might still show her this thread since things can't actually get any worse.

skallywag - I cringe when she criticises where we live (it's Lucan). Our neighbours are friendly, lots of parks around, great for sport and walking with our 15 month old, close to some clubs I'm a member of. She is not Irish and seems to have a dislike of Ireland / Irish in general and has for years nagged me about moving abroad - I don't want to move abroad and have always been upfront about that.

antix80 - she would like to live in Castleknock and we could afford it. I'd never say never but I spent €100k doing up our house and gardens - its comfortable, close to everything we need, good transport links. I drive a 13 year old car so, in a similar vein, I don't care if people approve or disapprove of where I live. Castleknock has bigger traffic problems and is just less convenient for more or less everything that I'm interested in doing. She has no hobbies by the way so it doesn't make any difference to her except for her ego perhaps. Regarding the family arguments on whatsapp - they occur only rarely but with everyone living countries apart they have the potential to cause prolonged disgruntlement hence why I stay out of them. I don't know why my wife can't do the same particularly given it's my family.

Tork - she never paid anything towards the house. I'm mortgage free so no big deal but she never paid anything towards utility bills or household stuff like pictures, beds, bed linen etc ever. I used to earn a multiple of her salary so it didn't bother me. She became a stay at home Mum when our only child was born - I give her a fixed sum each month so she has the flexibility to do with it as she wishes without thinking I would be looking at her spending habits (generally I don't care unless it's being wasted). Up until Covid I paid for a cleaner to come in for 3 hours a week.

strandroad - you don't have to go far to find rough areas but I haven't experienced any anti-social activity in almost 20 years of living here. There are plenty of good State run schools in Lucan from my research with great academic rankings in the Leaving Cert. Discipline in these schools doesn't seem to be a problem. I would fund any move entirely.

Batgurl

1. You told your wife that your friends were basically laughing at her and you wonder why she didn’t appreciate the feedback? There are infinitely more constructive ways to have that conversation.

2. Your brothers were arguing in a group chat and instead of telling them to maybe have a bit of cop on and be more discreet, you focus your feedback on your wife and tell her to stay out of it?

Your comment about her not contributing a red cent seems like you have some unresolved anger issues towards your wife and as other posters have said, I’d love to hear her version of events.

I’m not saying she’s innocent but even a random stranger on the internet can see that you haven’t helped yourself in these situations.

skallywag

skallywag wrote: »

It certainly does not sound to me that you are trying to control her, based on what you have said.

It does however sound like she is trying to play the control card though.

This. It really is a disgusting tactic used to silence any disagreement and to, of course, control you.

I think you're perfectly within your rights to defend your home place. She should know its meaning for you and out of respect for you not try to ingratiate herself, Hyacinth Bucket style, with outsiders by putting it down.

Batgurl

Batgurl wrote: »

Your brothers were arguing in a group chat and instead of telling them to maybe have a bit of cop on and be more discreet, you focus your feedback on your wife and tell her to stay out of it?.

He should not interfere, and he was right to not want her interferring either.

joe40

Batgurl wrote: »

1. You told your wife that your friends were basically laughing at her and you wonder why she didn’t appreciate the feedback? There are infinitely more constructive ways to have that conversation.

2. Your brothers were arguing in a group chat and instead of telling them to maybe have a bit of cop on and be more discreet, you focus your feedback on your wife and tell her to stay out of it?

Your comment about her not contributing a red cent seems like you have some unresolved anger issues towards your wife and as other posters have said, I’d love to hear her version of events.

I’m not saying she’s innocent but even a random stranger on the internet can see that you haven’t helped yourself in these situations.

On the "not getting involved with the Brothers argument on WhatsApp", staying out of it was absolutely the best advice.

leggo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He should not interfere, and he was right to not want her interferring either.

Yeah 100% this. I don’t see why she thought it was her place to get involved in an argument between brothers in her in-law’s family WhatsApp. That’s really self-important, intrusive behaviour and generally that kinda thing will just end with something like the brothers just turning on the person interfering, another WhatsApp being set up to exclude the wife etc. I also don’t see how it was the OP’s responsibility to resolve it. People are allowed to disagree and have it out like.

OP based solely off what you said, I’d say your instincts seem to be dead right on both cases. There could be varying factors where her points were valid, but just on her instinct to communicate displeasure with where you live through a conversation with your friends as well as get involved in your family suggests terrible communication skills and poor understanding of boundaries. They’re not great qualities tbh.

Tork

If your wife is so negative towards Ireland and the Irish, a move to Castleknock isn't going to solve anything. The worrying thing here is that if your marriage hits the rocks, she'll probably want to hightail it back to her home country with your child in tow. Have you sought any legal advice yet? I think a quiet visit to a solicitor to find out what your rights are is needed. Hopefully it won't come to that but it's good to know where you stand.

LegacyUser

Batgurl wrote: »

1. You told your wife that your friends were basically laughing at her and you wonder why she didn’t appreciate the feedback? There are infinitely more constructive ways to have that conversation.

2. Your brothers were arguing in a group chat and instead of telling them to maybe have a bit of cop on and be more discreet, you focus your feedback on your wife and tell her to stay out of it?

Your comment about her not contributing a red cent seems like you have some unresolved anger issues towards your wife and as other posters have said, I’d love to hear her version of events.

I’m not saying she’s innocent but even a random stranger on the internet can see that you haven’t helped yourself in these situations.

It was not the first time for discussing this home location topic and hasn't been the last. Tact tends to fade when you are repeating / defending yourself for the 20th time.

For sure I am angry with my wife but not for anything I've disclosed on this thread. I don't repress it, sometimes to my cost.

I appreciate your reply. I too would like to understand my wife's perspective but all I've ever got is that I shouldn't tell her what to do. I've never got any indication that she saw where I was coming from.

LegacyUser

Tork wrote: »

If your wife is so negative towards Ireland and the Irish, a move to Castleknock isn't going to solve anything. The worrying thing here is that if your marriage hits the rocks, she'll probably want to hightail it back to her home country with your child in tow. Have you sought any legal advice yet? I think a quiet visit to a solicitor to find out what your rights are is needed. Hopefully it won't come to that but it's good to know where you stand.

Nail on the head. It's happened already and has been completely unexpected. I'm making an appointment with a legal firm on Monday.

She left with my son for a holiday 5 weeks ago to visit her sick aunt / family. I provided her with a letter giving my consent.

The last week has effectively been spent calling her to find out when she is coming home and, inevitably I get more irate that she doesn't pick up or reply or give me a date and then uses my irateness as the excuse why she doesn't feel comfortable to fly back.

So future contact is pointless and the Hague Convention will hopefully be my saviour to get my son back to Ireland.

antix80

Thestrawthat wrote: »

She left with my son for a holiday 5 weeks ago to visit her sick aunt / family. I provided her with a letter giving my consent.

Op, i think you're way beyond petty arguments. You said you might show her this thread....don't. We don't know your wife's intentions but they may not be in your interests.
Treat this as a legal matter from now on. Speak to your solicitor. also talk through your next moves with a trusted friend or a counsellor rather than trying to win an argument over the phone.

Tork

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, seeing as you've just dropped this bombshell. Even if every person in this thread told you that you were right and your wife was wrong, it was never going to make one bit of difference. This looks like it's shaping up to be a nasty custody battle. Leave squabbles out of it.

Caranica

Thestrawthat wrote: »

She left with my son for a holiday 5 weeks ago to visit her sick aunt / family. I provided her with a letter giving my consent.

Did you post another thread about this? It feels very familiar.

LegacyUser

Tork wrote: »

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, seeing as you've just dropped this bombshell. Even if every person in this thread told you that you were right and your wife was wrong, it was never going to make one bit of difference. This looks like it's shaping up to be a nasty custody battle. Leave squabbles out of it.

It's small buttons in the scheme of things but it still matters to me. I want to know for my own peace of mind.

LegacyUser

Caranica wrote: »

Did you post another thread about this? It feels very familiar.

I made a related thread last weekend - I can't even recall what i said specifically - it's been a long week. I asked for it to be deleted early on in case my wife came across it. Now it doesn't really matter.

LegacyUser

Tork wrote: »

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, seeing as you've just dropped this bombshell. Even if every person in this thread told you that you were right and your wife was wrong, it was never going to make one bit of difference. This looks like it's shaping up to be a nasty custody battle. Leave squabbles out of it.

Just to add, my wife brought up these incidences during our arguments this week so they did make a difference, to her.

You're not obliged to comment and if you feel you are wasting your time, don't. I'm grateful for the replies I've received.

leggo

I actually don’t believe this thread is legit now. If the issue was your wife has left the country indefinitely with your child, you simply wouldn’t be still focused solely on these arguments that are relatively minor by comparison.

qwerty13

leggo wrote: »

I actually don’t believe this thread is legit now. If the issue was your wife has left the country indefinitely with your child, you simply wouldn’t be still focused solely on these arguments that are relatively minor by comparison.

Not only minor, but also irrelevant (providing the thread is legit). An argument about living in Castleknock versus Lucan is a moot point if the mother is in her home country and seems to be refusing to bring the child back to Ireland.

Hannibal_Smith

I can see where the OP is coming from. He's been going back and forth with his wife all week, asking her to come back to Ireland. She's thrown historic arguments at him and he's trying to make sense of them here?

Maybe I'm naive, but that's how it looks to me.

However, OP, I do feel that a solicitor is your best bet. I don't think you can get any answers here that will satisfy you when things have gone so far with your wife. You're inviting posters to help you, in a manner that might help you resolve things with your wife. However, resolving petty squabbles about location and WhatsApp chats isn't the issue. Its gone far beyond that.

I think talking to a solicitor tomorrow morning is a sensible way to go and you will feel less like your hands are tied and more in control.

Bass Reeves

leggo wrote: »

I actually don’t believe this thread is legit now. If the issue was your wife has left the country indefinitely with your child, you simply wouldn’t be still focused solely on these arguments that are relatively minor by comparison.

While these arguments are now minor on the scale of things I think OP wanted confirmation that he was not being unreasonable. He wanted to confirmation that did he need to change his thinking. As I read earlier posts I taught counseling for the pair and hopefully his wife would start to see issues from his viewpoints but also if there was issues with his behaviour it would be resolved there.

However at this stage its imperative that he starts proceedings to see the return of his child to Ireland. At this stage I would not stop his monthly contribution to her upkeep but it is something to be considered

skallywag

Batgurl wrote: »

2. Your brothers were arguing in a group chat and instead of telling them to maybe have a bit of cop on and be more discreet, you focus your feedback on your wife and tell her to stay out of it?

The OP was absolutely correct on this front, if I did the same to my other half she would, rightly, be extremely annoyed, as would I if the boot was on the other foot.

It does not take much cop-on to know that one should keep one's oar out of someone else's boat.

LegacyUser

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I can see where the OP is coming from. He's been going back and forth with his wife all week, asking her to come back to Ireland. She's thrown historic arguments at him and he's trying to make sense of them here?

Maybe I'm naive, but that's how it looks to me.

However, OP, I do feel that a solicitor is your best bet. I don't think you can get any answers here that will satisfy you when things have gone so far with your wife. You're inviting posters to help you, in a manner that might help you resolve things with your wife. However, resolving petty squabbles about location and WhatsApp chats isn't the issue. Its gone far beyond that.

I think talking to a solicitor tomorrow morning is a sensible way to go and you will feel less like your hands are tied and more in control.

Thank you and yes, I'm trying to make sense of what is being fired back at me.

I'm not looking for feedback on how to resolve things with my wife - I've asked for opinions on the two incidents in my OP only.

afkasurfjunkie

qwerty13 wrote: »

Not only minor, but also irrelevant (providing the thread is legit). An argument about living in Castleknock versus Lucan is a moot point if the mother is in her home country and seems to be refusing to bring the child back to Ireland.

She became a stay at home mum and is reliant on the op for money. Lives in a very decent part of Dublin yet seems to have chosen to go back to her home country. Op doesn’t say where she is from but I’d say her side of the story could be very different.

99nsr125

No you are not being unreasonable

Just be fair and balanced

Poor behaviour that's allowed will just continue and worsen

LegacyUser

afkasurfjunkie wrote: »

She became a stay at home mum and is reliant on the op for money. Lives in a very decent part of Dublin yet seems to have chosen to go back to her home country. Op doesn’t say where she is from but I’d say her side of the story could be very different.

I'd be grateful if posters would reply to what I've asked and stop casting aspersions. Whether you believe i'm presenting the situation accurately or not is irrelevant to me. For the record, my wife had the option to go to work if she wished, in which case I would pay for the creche.

osarusan

As she is not Irish, there may be different cultural norms which influence stuff she does and says that seems out of place in Ireland. I lived abroad for many years and put my foot in it many times until I learned more about when to speak and when not to, what to say and what not to.

But honestly all of that seems small fry in comparison to the issue of her heading home with your child for weeks and maybe not coming back.

Get a solicitor, prepare for the worst, even as you try and get things back to normal.

Big Bag of Chips

OP, Personal Issues is specifically an advice forum where posters post looking for advice and posters are expected to reply with advice. I understand that you are looking for opinion on 2 specific issues, but I think what posters are recognising here is that these 2 issues are minor compared to the bigger problems in your marriage.

In isolation, you could argue that you had a point in both incidents. But you could also argue that your wife as an adult is entitled to her own opinion.
-As an adult if she was witness to an argument going on in front of her, then as an adult she has the right to speak up if she so wishes. If your brothers didn't want anyone getting involved the argument should have been conducted in private. But in saying that you were probably right to tell her to stay out of it because it wasn't going to make things better.
-Lots of people live in areas they'd prefer not to. Lots of people had to move to areas they could afford rather than areas they'd like to live and as a result always have the desire to be somewhere else. Your wife is supposed to be your partner, your equal in the relationship but you seem to think because she doesn't work and doesn't earn that they has no entitlement to express an opinion.

So in these incidents, from her perspective she is right. From your's you are.

And you're both a bit right, and probably a bit wrong. Marriage is about compromise but neither of you seem to want to give way for the other person.

Your marriage is in trouble and I think for some reason you are focusing on these two occasions to prove some point to yourself. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed. I would usually advise marriage counselling, but in this situation it seems like you are both past that stage and neither of you are interested in being in a relationship with each other.

Maybe your best bet is to now look into mediation/counselling to allow you both to separate amicably and come to the most agreeably arrangement for your child.

eviltwin

Thestrawthat wrote: »

It's small buttons in the scheme of things but it still matters to me. I want to know for my own peace of mind.

Are you for real? Your wife does a runner overseas with your child, is ignoring your attempts to make contact and seems to have no intention of coming back and your posting about petty arguments?????

You need to give your head a wobble mate. These squabbles are the least of your worries

leggo

Thestrawthat wrote: »

I'd be grateful if posters would reply to what I've asked and stop casting aspersions. Whether you believe i'm presenting the situation accurately or not is irrelevant to me. For the record, my wife had the option to go to work if she wished, in which case I would pay for the creche.

As BBOC has explained very well, PI is for users discussing and offering advice on issues brought by others. But nobody here is obligated to give you the feedback that you’d like to hear. The reality is that, given the information you’ve presented, if this is in fact true and you’re focused on this instead of getting your children back...then a lot of people’s natural question is that your priorities seem to be skewed. That’s a fair conclusion to make.

So to be clear: people ARE telling you that, based solely on the version of events you’ve presented without any context from your wife, your conclusions seem reasonable. What they are NOT saying is that, if you plan on using this as justification to try get your children back, that is evidence of that. They’re specifically saying that more info is now required on this to be able to give any kind of balanced opinion, because nobody believes that your wife just left the country under false pretences with your children because of those two minor disagreements. So if you are showing her this thread as a way to convince her she’s ‘crazy’ or whatever and strengthening your argument there, I’m not signing off on that and I’m sure many others aren’t either.

That’s not to say that you’re wrong and she’s right, but your behaviour and reactions and distilling a huge issue into these two minor ones is ringing alarm bells because you’re now getting defensive and refusing to give more info.

Hannibal_Smith

Thestrawthat wrote: »

Thank you and yes, I'm trying to make sense of what is being fired back at me.

I'm not looking for feedback on how to resolve things with my wife - I've asked for opinions on the two incidents in my OP only.

Well, looking for opinions is more a discussion on what happened and that's really not what PI is for. Posters are asked to offer advice to an OP on an issue that's impacting them. And to ask posters to deviate from that is asking them to break the fundamental rules of PI.

LegacyUser

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

OP, Personal Issues is specifically an advice forum where posters post looking for advice and posters are expected to reply with advice. I understand that you are looking for opinion on 2 specific issues, but I think what posters are recognising here is that these 2 issues are minor compared to the bigger problems in your marriage.

In isolation, you could argue that you had a point in both incidents. But you could also argue that your wife as an adult is entitled to her own opinion.
-As an adult if she was witness to an argument going on in front of her, then as an adult she has the right to speak up if she so wishes. If your brothers didn't want anyone getting involved the argument should have been conducted in private. But in saying that you were probably right to tell her to stay out of it because it wasn't going to make things better.
-Lots of people live in areas they'd prefer not to. Lots of people had to move to areas they could afford rather than areas they'd like to live and as a result always have the desire to be somewhere else. Your wife is supposed to be your partner, your equal in the relationship but you seem to think because she doesn't work and doesn't earn that they has no entitlement to express an opinion.

So in these incidents, from her perspective she is right. From your's you are.

And you're both a bit right, and probably a bit wrong. Marriage is about compromise but neither of you seem to want to give way for the other person.

Your marriage is in trouble and I think for some reason you are focusing on these two occasions to prove some point to yourself. There are bigger issues that need to be addressed. I would usually advise marriage counselling, but in this situation it seems like you are both past that stage and neither of you are interested in being in a relationship with each other.

Maybe your best bet is to now look into mediation/counselling to allow you both to separate amicably and come to the most agreeably arrangement for your child.

I've never said my wife is not entitled to her opinion. Effectively all i've asked is that there be some discretion when expressing it.

Of course she has a right to express her preference to move to Castleknock and I have a right to not want to get into debt in a booming property market or move for what seems to me to be mostly appearance reasons. Yes we are both right from our respective perspectives, however, the purpose of this thread is to gauge how reasonable or otherwise I have been. For the most part that's what I've been getting from the thread so thank you.

I don't wish to get into the broader issues in my marriage or talk about possible / probable outcomes. As I've said already, I will be making an appointment with a family solicitor tomorrow.

LegacyUser

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

Well, looking for opinions is more a discussion on what happened and that's really not what PI is for. Posters are asked to offer advice to an OP on an issue that's impacting them. And to ask posters to deviate from that is asking them to break the fundamental rules of PI.

Fair enough.

Mods - can you please close the thread as it's deviating from what I intended.

Thanks again for the replies.

Flippyfloppy

From your wife's perspective, she asked you to move abroad, but you won't. She asked you to move to the area she'd prefer to live in Dublin, you won't. From her perspective there wasn't much compromise from you, your decision was final.

Regarding involving herself in your brothers argument, it was a group chat. These are usually open for group discussions. Additionally, without knowing where your wife is from, a lot of other cultures aren't as passive as the Irish and have no problem voicing their opinion on what is in front of them.

The question is, how did the above become an issue for you and your wife. Did you calmly advise her to just let the brothers work things out for themselves, or did things get very heated?

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

Thread closed as per OPs request.

Thank you to all who took the time to respond and assist.