Leaving Cert 2021.

MeathMabel

Hi all,

I'm wondering what is going to happen with the fifth years students that are going into Sixth in August.

My child is one of them. Her school wasn't very good in what work they sent home during the pandemic so does any one here know if they will try teach the majority of the 2 year curriculum in 6th year? Any teachers about....

Some of her science subjects are extremelly difficult to teach yourself at home so I will get grinds for these.
Does anyone know is there a plan in place for the outgoing fifth years. From speaking to my daughter she said she would struggle next year with some of the subjects even though she did work at home. I know from speaking to my friends that some of their children are in the same predicament.


in some ways, this class year has been left behind.
Thanks in advance for any replies.

rainbowtrout

Nobody knows. We don't even know if schools will be fully open in September. No school can make plans until the government make plans.

byhookorbycrook

ERSI flying a kite .
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/longer-school-days-and-weekend-classes-esri-calls-for-leaving-cert-2021-changes-39302362.html

Barbeapapa

Those ERSI suggestions are crazy. 6th years are subject to crazy pressure already but sure, let's heap more on them. What the hell if it ramps up the numbers of 6th years suffering depression and anxiety. Also those "traditional mocks" turned out to be kind of important this year. Honestly, my dog could have suggested better.

I heard from a secondary school teacher that it is looking like the leaving cert exam will be stretched to accommodate missed topics (9 weeks Is a huge chunk of an already pressured course) so a bigger choice in questions as far as I understand.

I have a child doing the lc next year and the stress has been significant, and continues with the current situation of not knowing what it will be like. Their fear is that teachers will say: right so, 9 weeks to make up! And so the likes of cram schools will cope fine but average schools and average students will sink.

MeathMabel

Thanks all.

I was speaking to a teacher who teaches secondary. She said they still have no clue what is happening.

I did ask my child in a round about way of repeating 5th year. She said not a chance as she had already done TY and in theory she should of finished this year and would of got into college on her marks. Now she has no clue what is going to happen.

I think they may need to modify 2021's leaving cert. We shall have to see what is going on.

Don't think the unions will let the teachers do longer days and to be honest I wouldn't expect them to.

Thanks all.

carr62

Good luck to your daughter going back to school to begin 6th year. Mine is doing the same, and I must say I'm concerned. I did see the changes that the Dept plan to make to 2021 leaving cert, but in my opinion they didn't go far enough - but then again, my child may have fallen further behind than a lot of others! Best of luck to all and fingers crossed the year will run smoothly!

petronius

I think 2021 LC will be interesting, assuming it coronavirus is not preventing actual exams, you would assume marks would be deflated from this years ones.
I also think students will have missed out on teaching time in 5th year with the virus and lockdown it will have an impact, and the fact that 6th year will be affected by separation measures it could impact on quality of teaching time.

i think the further tinkering with the LC is not beneficial under these circumstances, too much tinkering in recent years anyways.

I also heard of a 2020 leaving cert student who is still taking a gap year, they missed their number 1 CAO course, and expect the points for it to drop in 2021 and hope to use their assessed grades from this year (is this kosher?)

carr62

Im aware of a number of students who received higher grades than they were expecting, and now find themselves with much more choice in terms of courses. The problem is, they didn't apply for these courses at the time of the CAO applications as they didn't expect to meet the points. From what I understand, quite a few are going to take this year out, reapply to Cao in 2021 using their 2020 predicted grade points. I don't blame them, but I think it's curtains for my daughter's dream of primary teaching. She sits her leaving cert in 2021 and to reach the old points for primary was going to be a mountain to climb as it was, but when you add in people reapplying from 2020, and November resits getting places for 2021 I think it's just gone out of reach. I'm trying to keep her motivated but she is very deflated right now. I have to admit it's not looking good for the class of 2021! Has anyone any predictions of how things might work out for them?

Mrsmum

My son will also be doing his LC in 2021. Seems to me they will have the worst of all worlds.

carr62

My thoughts exactly!

Barbeapapa

I heard some 6th years talking about classmates being ill. They concluded that there is no incentive for them to admit to possible covid symptoms as they will then have to isolate, miss two weeks of school and then be way behind a course they are already lagging behind in. Assuming there will eventually be a positive case in their class or year they may then go on to miss more class time.

I get that their civic duty (to admit to possible symptoms) is lacking but from their point of view they are fecked, if they actually get sick they can kiss their plan of third level goodbye. There's no reassurance from the doe for them. No excuse for that either. The rising rates of depression amongst young people includes 6th years and is not being helped by the silence from the doe.

carr62

Ah, that's so very sad, but I can see their reasoning. It's looking quite bleak for their third level options right now. I know my daughter already feels defeated started 6th year. These kids need to know that their efforts aren't going to be in vain, or else I'm going to have to agree with my daughter the next time she's sitting in from of a pile of books and asks " what's the point?"

Comer1

Barbeapapa wrote: »

I heard some 6th years talking about classmates being ill. They concluded that there is no incentive for them to admit to possible covid symptoms as they will then have to isolate, miss two weeks of school and then be way behind a course they are already lagging behind in. Assuming there will eventually be a positive case in their class or year they may then go on to miss more class time.

I get that their civic duty (to admit to possible symptoms) is lacking but from their point of view they are fecked, if they actually get sick they can kiss their plan of third level goodbye. There's no reassurance from the doe for them. No excuse for that either. The rising rates of depression amongst young people includes 6th years and is not being helped by the silence from the doe.

If sixth years are that concerned, I'm sure I'd be seeing them showing a bit of responsibility by social distancing.

I'm not seeing that, either in school or outside.

Mrsmum

As a parent, I worry that my 6th year student will be in and out of school many times this year because that's now what you're supposed to do if you have the regular cold symptoms eg cough, temp, the same symptoms that in other years you would soldier on with. But because the school will remain open, all these individual days missed by a student will not be factored in at all. People will say, what did they miss in 6th year , wasn't the school open the whole time.
Another thing, my young man is a very good student but I know he and his friends are battling against the hope that the LC as a big final exam will not go ahead either next year. It's like they've seen the genie out of the bottle that the LC exam is sacrosanct and their young immature minds are hoping the genie will stay out.

Barbeapapa

There is a bit of that attitude here too Mrsmum. I am sure it will go ahead, like it should have done this year, but ideally with even more choice than they are offering. My hope is that it will become less of a memory test and more of a chance to show that you can apply what you have learned. I think I might as well hope for a genie!

Slightly off topic but if teachers could give up to say 10 or 15% of grades in the LC do you think it would help towards better behaviour in schools/classrooms?

joe40

I think there will definitely have to be a leaving certificate exam of some sort this year. Is 2020/2021.
Asking teachers to predict grades for their own students is not viable without some sort of standardised assessment process that all pupils go through.

Mrsmum

Barbeapapa wrote: »

There is a bit of that attitude here too Mrsmum. I am sure it will go ahead, like it should have done this year, but ideally with even more choice than they are offering. My hope is that it will become less of a memory test and more of a chance to show that you can apply what you have learned. I think I might as well hope for a genie!

Slightly off topic but if teachers could give up to say 10 or 15% of grades in the LC do you think it would help towards better behaviour in schools/classrooms?

Tbh I have no idea what behaviour is like within a classroom. I would have assumed in LC the students would have realised they are only cheating themselves by overly messing at that stage in the game. But a certain amount of marks from teacher seems fairly logical as a carrot/stick kind of thing I guess.

Mrsmum

joe40 wrote: »

I think there will definitely have to be a leaving certificate exam of some sort this year. Is 2020/2021.
Asking teachers to predict grades for their own students is not viable without some sort of standardised assessment process that all pupils go through.

I think there will be a LC in 2021 too but I think LC students are thinking school will close again sooner or later and then bye bye exam.

shesty

Given that all 5 levels of this Government "plan" due to be published this week is to aim to keep schools open come hell or high water I would not pin my hopes as an LC student on closures.
Tbh, like anything in life, they should keep trying until they have a concrete reason to believe otherwise.If I were in their shoes I would be doing my best to be prepared no matter what because it is a much stronger position to be in than hoping for things that are unlikely to happen as a way out.

xraylady

I’ve also heard of people who are taking a year out and reapplying next year with their high points in anticipation of a drop in 2021. They could also, if they wanted, repeat a subject and perhaps further increase the points by selecting the higher result and adding. It’s very disheartening for present 6th years because based on 2020 points many courses that they might have hoped to get - on a good day - now seem out of reach. Motivation will be tough.

carr62

My thoughts exactly, xraylady. I have a daughter here who believes she is beaten before she starts.

shesty

But Carr, if you (she) don't at least try, you will definitely be beaten. That would be my take on it. She is better to try and have a chance of coming out with what she wants, than to give up now and have no chance of getting anything.



It's her exams at the end of the day, it's not like anybody else can do them for her. And there is a long way between here and June.

RealJohn

Barbeapapa wrote: »

Slightly off topic but if teachers could give up to say 10 or 15% of grades in the LC do you think it would help towards better behaviour in schools/classrooms?

No.
The students who do most of the disrupting are generally the ones who aren't forward-thinking enough to worry about their grades until the exams are looming. In my experience, even the students who start off troublesome are pretty quiet after Christmas in their leaving cert year, and increasingly so as the exams get closer. Some of it is fear of exams. Most of it is maturity, I suspect, and the fact that they no longer get the reaction they want from their classmates.
Teachers threatening them with lower grades (or just knowing that their teachers will be awarding them a grade's worth of marks) would have virtually no effect on them, one way or the other, I would think.

RealJohn

On topic, parent power is what ruined the exams this year. Parents of this year's leaving certs needed to be out too, insisting that their kids were considered too, and what the knock on effects of cancelling this year's exams would be. I know that some were, but far too few.

IgoPAP

RealJohn wrote: »

On topic, parent power is what ruined the exams this year. Parents of this year's leaving certs needed to be out too, insisting that their kids were considered too, and what the knock on effects of cancelling this year's exams would be. I know that some were, but far too few.

What ruined this year was government cowardice. They bowed down to student pressure that the exams be cancelled (ostensibly for their "health" - but we all know that they just didn't want to sit the exams) and hysterical parents. The exams could and should have gone ahead.

Now these same students are complaining that it's the "gubermint" fault that all the teachers inflated their grades without recourse.

rainbowtrout

RealJohn wrote: »

No.
The students who do most of the disrupting are generally the ones who aren't forward-thinking enough to worry about their grades until the exams are looming. In my experience, even the students who start off troublesome are pretty quiet after Christmas in their leaving cert year, and increasingly so as the exams get closer. Some of it is fear of exams. Most of it is maturity, I suspect, and the fact that they no longer get the reaction they want from their classmates.
Teachers threatening them with lower grades (or just knowing that their teachers will be awarding them a grade's worth of marks) would have virtually no effect on them, one way or the other, I would think.

Would agree. Ag Science was a quirky subject in that up to this year the teacher graded the project, but external examiners did come in to interview students to ensure grades were fair.

Even when students knew I was grading their projects, some of them still wouldn't do the work. Me grading their work made no difference to their behaviour.

TPK

xraylady wrote: »

I’ve also heard of people who are taking a year out and reapplying next year with their high points in anticipation of a drop in 2021. They could also, if they wanted, repeat a subject and perhaps further increase the points by selecting the higher result and adding. It’s very disheartening for present 6th years because based on 2020 points many courses that they might have hoped to get - on a good day - now seem out of reach. Motivation will be tough.

If it is of any help, there are currently cases being initiated on behalf of students who sat LC in years prior to 2020 and who have been really left out in the cold due to inflated grades debacle and having no appeal or way back in to repeat exams. If any of these cases are successful, it will be of great help to any future years LC classes who also find themselves having to compete with the inflated grades. Watch the news over the next few weeks. This is far from over.