Right Wing Politics and Football Hooliganism

Big Gerry

Does anyone know why there is a strong association between right wing politics and football Hooliganism in the UK ?


You would think if someone was "right wing" they would be all for law and order and against Hooliganism etc.

Headers..

Your Face

Here is a chant:

Left
Right
All full of ****e

jam_mac_jam

The right generally like law and order, respect for police and military, fascists and the far right generally approve of and often glorifies violence and war.

There is a big difference between conservatives or the right with football hooligans and neo nazis. I'm sure there was a big differences between the protesters yesterday but you only see the most extreme elements.

The Tory party are right wing but would not be in favour of what went on yesterday. There are many types of right wing in the same way there is plenty differences on the left.

B.A._Baracus

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... I don't even know the difference between the left views and right views. It's all bollocks to be honest.

Like "I'm a left and you're a right. That bloke over there is a far-left and that woman across the road is a far right..... but see that granny that just passed us? She's an extreme right"

Load. Of. Bollocks.

Kylta

Football hooliganism in england is contains all sorts of colour. One of the main protagonists in a book about football violence based around Aston Villa was black. In fairness to him he wasn't anti white. He just hated all other football team supporters.

Fuascailteoir

Kylta wrote: »

Football hooliganism in england is contains all sorts of colour. One of the main protagonists in a book about football violence based around Aston Villa was black. In fairness to him he wasn't anti white. He just hated all other football team supporters.

They used to have different groupings. Take west ham, used to have a group of black supporters, second generation Irish, English, Pakistani etc. When they would meet another club would all team up together

Kylta

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

They used to have different groupings. Take west ham, used to have a group of black supporters, second generation Irish, English, Pakistani etc. When they would meet another club would all team up together

Football hooliganism in england seems to be ingrained into certain sections of the clubs. True football supporters have only their clubs at heart. To hooligans the club is a brand. The likes of the national front used the likes of hooligans for thuggery reasons.

buried

Right wing politics holds the view that hierarchies are inevitable. Extreme right wing politics hold the view that " our hierarchy is not only inevitable, but our hierarchy is the only one that matters or should succeed, and we should trample everyone else" Much like their own football club "should only succeed" and "beat everyone else". For the majority of these hooligan lads, not the ordinary football fan, the football is secondary, its the realm of conflict to reach a hierarchy over everyone else, that is what is important.

Zebra3

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

The Tory party are right wing but would not be in favour of what went on yesterday.

The Tories are more in favour of bombing brown skinned people and stealing their land, but they frown at a minor disorder inside their own country.

Harry Palmr

The Football Lads are nothing of the sort. Just a handy cover.

Jimbob1977

In World War I and World War II, millions of men went to fight for their country against the enemy. They had a common cause and a type of brotherhood.

The hooligans had no wars to participate in. They probably felt emasculated or left out, so they set up little armies with generals and foot soldiers.

It's the need to find an outlet for aggression.

Hector Savage

Big Gerry wrote: »

Does anyone know why there is a strong association between right wing politics and football Hooliganism in the UK ?


You would think if someone was "right wing" they would be all for law and order and against Hooliganism etc.

It's not as strong as you think, the media just want to exagerrate it to hide the real thuggery of BLM and antifa.

Most of those counter protests were just sane people that didn't want statues of Churchill etc destroyed, but the media just brand them all as "far right neo nazis" - it's a good tactic, it means many sane people on the left or center won't dare counter protest as they will be branded as "far right".

AlphabetCards

I know two football hooligans. One is a ****ing reprobate from Scunthorpe suffering from little man syndrome, and regularly has his passport confiscated, mean to his partner etc. The other is a PhD student - a tall,handsome chap from a wealthy background, who regularly taunts people into fights and gets his head kicked in. Nasty to his girlfriend too. My impression of football hooliganism here in the UK is that it is a handy cover for angry pricks.

An outlet for aggression, but then again you would have to ask is there a link with agression and right-wing politics or even fascist tendencies in a person.

Zebra3

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Tories are more in favour of bombing brown skinned people and stealing their land, but they frown at a minor disorder inside their own country.

You mean like the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Agricola

I presume it has a lot to do with nationalism/patriotism and jingoism. Right wing politics is very much wrapped up in pride of your tribe, the country, the flag, the head of state, the military and following a national football team is very similar. Paint your face with the flag, sing the anthem, the travelling support are often collectively known as "the army" when theres a tournament on.

Football, especially in England is basically a phony war with no bullets. A lot of lads over there who grew up on a diet of the battle of Britain, get to live out their fantasies in a safe way and with copious amounts of cheap lager. It's a win win!

titan18

I don't think there is. Not all far right people are football hooligans and not all football hooligans are far right people.

Nowadays though, they tend to at least be pretty well organised and good at evading police. Along with just liking violence.

Big Gerry

Big Gerry wrote: »

Does anyone know why there is a strong association between right wing politics and football Hooliganism in the UK ?


You would think if someone was "right wing" they would be all for law and order and against Hooliganism etc.

I would say it is more a case of all right wing thugs are in to football hooliganism, but not all football hooligans are right wing thugs.

ChikiChiki

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... I don't even know the difference between the left views and right views. It's all bollocks to be honest.

Like "I'm a left and you're a right. That bloke over there is a far-left and that woman across the road is a far right..... but see that granny that just passed us? She's an extreme right"

Load. Of. Bollocks.

It is a load of bollocks. You have extreme idiots on the far side of both. 99% of people reside in the sane centre ground.

Unfortunately its these extreme clowns that make themselves the loudest.

AlphabetCards

Aegir wrote: »

I would say it is more a case of all right wing thugs are in to football hooliganism, but not all football hooligans are right wing thugs.

I know a lot of right wing lads who have no interest in football whatsovever, who would castigate football hooliganism. It was interesting when I served in the British Army, to see that the majority of lads (who would be conservatives, or hold conservative, roght wing views) rip the ****e out of football hooligans, which always struck me as odd, as football hooligans have so much respect for HM forces.

WesternZulu

It has always fascinated me why football hooligans started in the UK.

You look at games from the 40's right up to the 60's and the supporters in the crowds seem relatively civilized. Move to the 70's and there appears to some sort of sea-change where soccer atmospheres at grounds becomes far more hostile. Also seems to align with the growth of far right movements and skin-heads and the likes.

Anyway, the whole hooligan element and signing abuse at opposition supporters is belong cringe in by opinion.

jam_mac_jam

Zebra3 wrote: »

The Tories are more in favour of bombing brown skinned people and stealing their land, but they frown at a minor disorder inside their own country.

So are Labour.

AlphabetCards

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

So are Labour.

Everyone seems to forget about that.

jimgoose

Because a lot of people these days mistakenly conflate Right Wing political thinking with being an illiterate racist thug. I'm not quite sure how exactly that happened. :pac:

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

Because a lot of people these days mistakenly conflate Right Wing political thinking with being an illiterate racist thug. I'm not quite sure how exactly that happened. :pac:

At a casual glance maybe, but I listed to an unrepentant Tory being interviewed on the radio at the weekend and its illuminating and he was and is far from an illiterate racist thug.

Watch the film pan labyrinth as a side view of right-wing politics.

jimgoose

mariaalice wrote: »

At a casual glance maybe, but I listed to an unrepentant tory being interviewed on the radio at the weekend and its illuminating and he was and is far from an illiterate racist thug.

Indeed and I would expect an unrepentant Tory to be pretty far from an illiterate racist thug. What exactly is your point, what was this person talking about?

CrankyHaus

Right-wing violent organisations attract people who want a simple us-and-them narrative because anything more complex confuses them and makes them feel stupid; cameraderie on the "right" side with the people they identify with; and a chance of violence to vent anger and feel empowered, ideally with overwhelming odds on their side.

This overlaps almost perfectly with the appeal of football hooliganism, so there is real-world overlap, though they're by no means one and the same. You'll get football hooligans who'll have nothing to do with the far-right and vice-versa.

It also overlaps almost perfectly with the appeal of left-wing violent organisations; simply replace "Muslims" with "Fascists" and away you go. A friend, who was an Anarchist, once described Antif-Fascist Action (AFA, a kind of Antifa predecessor) as "alternative football hooligans" and he was dead right.

jimgoose

jimgoose wrote: »

Indeed and I would expect an unrepentant Tory to be pretty far from an illiterate racist thug. What exactly is your point, what was this person talking about?

Its just that an urbane and erudite personally can still espouse strong government ect views. Its easy to dismiss right-wing when its coupled with football hooliganism.

WesternZulu

WesternZulu wrote: »

It has always fascinated me why football hooligans started in the UK.

You look at games from the 40's right up to the 60's and the supporters in the crowds seem relatively civilized. Move to the 70's and there appears to some sort of sea-change where soccer atmospheres at grounds becomes far more hostile. Also seems to align with the growth of far right movements and skin-heads and the likes.

Anyway, the whole hooligan element and signing abuse at opposition supporters is belong cringe in by opinion.

The rise of unemployment is a factor, plus people forget at a general level society was fairly violent anyway corporal punishment in schools, fights in a pub on a Saturday nigh and so on, we forget how much things have changed.

CrankyHaus

mariaalice wrote: »

The rise of unemployment is a factor, plus people forget at a general level society was fairly violent anyway corporal punishment in schools, fights in a pub on a Saturday nigh and so on, we forget how much things have changed.

Dominic Sandbrook in his books on post war Britain analysed the rise of football hooliganism in the 70s.

He pointed out that families went to matches less and less as they got TVs. So the terraces became the haunt of groups of young men, who got beered up and engaged in violence, which discouraged more and more families from attending in a negative spiral.

He dismissed the term "Thatcher's Hooligans" and the argument that deprivation was a major cause on the grounds that hooliganism was a serious problem far earlier in the 70s, when workers wages were soaring; though his sympathies seem fairly Conservative.

To the credit of the English FA it's gone to serious lengths since the 90s to drive hooliganism out of football.

BPKS

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Dominic Sandbrook in his books on post war Britain analysed the rise of football hooliganism in the 70s.

He pointed out that families went to matches less and less as they got TVs. So the terraces became the haunt of groups of young men, who got beered up and engaged in violence, which discouraged more and more families from attending in a negative spiral.

He dismissed the term "Thatcher's Hooligans" and the argument that deprivation was a major cause on the grounds that hooliganism was a serious problem far earlier in the 70s, when workers wages were soaring; though his sympathies seem fairly Conservative.

To the credit of the English FA it's gone to serious lengths since the 90s to drive hooliganism out of football.

Ecstasy also played it parts.

Lads who a year before would get beered up and look for a fight were now taking a few tablets and going around hugging their rivals:D

major bill

CrankyHaus wrote: »

Dominic Sandbrook in his books on post war Britain analysed the rise of football hooliganism in the 70s.

He pointed out that families went to matches less and less as they got TVs. So the terraces became the haunt of groups of young men, who got beered up and engaged in violence, which discouraged more and more families from attending in a negative spiral.

He dismissed the term "Thatcher's Hooligans" and the argument that deprivation was a major cause on the grounds that hooliganism was a serious problem far earlier in the 70s, when workers wages were soaring; though his sympathies seem fairly Conservative.

To the credit of the English FA it's gone to serious lengths since the 90s to drive hooliganism out of football.

Always thought the explanation given in Portsmouths book although slightly cringe also had some merit! These lads growing up in 60s 70s were first generation of Britain’s not to have fought in a major war ! There folks grand folks fought in World war 1 and 2 it’s like the youth had “missed out” as they explained so used football to channel that! Only one of many factors it became a massive issue!

This association with Right wing politics nowadays seems to be only an English thing! The fixation with loyalism and Northern Ireland is outright cringe!

CrankyHaus

major bill wrote: »

Always thought the explanation given in Portsmouths book although slightly cringe also had some merit! These lads growing up in 60s 70s were first generation of Britain’s not to have fought in a major war ! There folks grand folks fought in World war 1 and 2 it’s like the youth had “missed out” as they explained so used football to channel that! Only one of many factors it became a massive issue!

This association with Right wing politics nowadays seems to be only an English thing! The fixation with loyalism and Northern Ireland is outright cringe!

Ah yeah it's multi-factorial. Hooliganism's halcyon days in the 70s and 80s coincided with the IRA bombing campaigns so it's unsurprising that hooligans would react to that with hostility.

I think in most places hooliganism has right wing national-chauvinist ties; due to the clear overlaps. See Russia or Turkey for example. And for an older example of a Right wing proto fascist violent organisation with striking similarities see Tsarist Russia's Black Hundreds.

major bill

major bill wrote: »

This association with Right wing politics nowadays seems to be only an English thing! The fixation with loyalism and Northern Ireland is outright cringe!

Ive not studied it, but I assumed that football violence in Italy and Spain was very much rooted in right wing politics.

chrissb8

Aegir wrote: »

Ive not studied it, but I assumed that football violence in Italy and Spain was very much rooted in right wing politics.

In Italy, yes, certain clubs are associated with the far right like Lazio. In Spain it’s a regional thing I.e Barcelona being the club of Catalans and the Camp Nou stadium was one of the few places Catalonian people could speak their own language to each other and celebrate their culture, while Spain was under a dictatorship.

major bill

Aegir wrote: »

Ive not studied it, but I assumed that football violence in Italy and Spain was very much rooted in right wing politics.

I should have clarified I was talking about UK specifically where we have seen an alignment of right wing politics with English Football Hooliganism , that’s not to say there weren’t links previously ie Chelsea! Funnily enough it was Welsh football hooligans that countered them football alliance lads in Manchester on Saturday!

80j2lc5y7u6qs9

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... I don't even know the difference between the left views and right views. It's all bollocks to be honest.

Like "I'm a left and you're a right. That bloke over there is a far-left and that woman across the road is a far right..... but see that granny that just passed us? She's an extreme right"

Load. Of. Bollocks.

left are socialists want to share other people's wealth

hooligans are thugs who need to get rid of their violent tendencies

normanoffside

Aegir wrote: »

Ive not studied it, but I assumed that football violence in Italy and Spain was very much rooted in right wing politics.

In Italy there are ‘ultra’ groups for various clubs that are both left and right. They tend to be ‘friends’ and ‘enemies’ with other groups with similar/opposite political leanings.
The most intense rivalries are between local neighbours with opposite political leanings.

For Example Roma are left and Lazio right. Bologna are left and Fiorentina right and matches between those clubs would have particularly charged atmospheres.

MY BAD

normanoffside wrote: »

In Italy there are ‘ultra’ groups for various clubs that are both left and right. They tend to be ‘friends’ and ‘enemies’ with other groups with similar/opposite political leanings.
The most intense rivalries are between local neighbours with opposite political leanings.

For Example Roma are left and Lazio right. Bologna are left and Fiorentina right and matches between those clubs would have particularly charged atmospheres.

Its not black and white. Romas curva sud is very much far from left wing these days. There are far right and left wing groups within Romas fan base. When 'Fedyen' were the main group the curva sud was seen as a left wing curva but then 'Boys' who are right wing were always present too. You'll find other curvas/kops around Europe that don't have one group in charge will have different opinions on politics and violence.

Zebra3

Aegir wrote: »

You mean like the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq?

The huge numbers of wars Britain fought to occupy large tracts of the globe, inspiring Hitler.

purplepanda

WesternZulu wrote: »

It has always fascinated me why football hooligans started in the UK.

You look at games from the 40's right up to the 60's and the supporters in the crowds seem relatively civilized. Move to the 70's and there appears to some sort of sea-change where soccer atmospheres at grounds becomes far more hostile. Also seems to align with the growth of far right movements and skin-heads and the likes.

It was the Old Firm Glasgow clubs who brought football hooliganism to England during the early '60's, Rangers played Everton & Celtic played Liverpool in European completions & there was severe trouble at both these matches at Anfield & Goodison Park. .

From then on the behaviour spread from the Liverpool clubs to Manchester with the United Red Army following then causing trouble from the mid 60's onwards at away games & having parts of their home stadium closed by the F.A.

1967 Manchester United won the English League by beating West Ham 6-1 at Upton Park, United fans took over the ground, invaded the pitch & caused trouble in & out of the stadium & local area. This ensured the problem had now spread to London & all around England during the next few years.

As covered in The Roots of Football Hooliganism by Dunning.

As for the right wing elements of the football hooligan firms, the larger & more successful clubs are mostly left wing, as most are inner city based. In particular Manchester United, Liverpool & Arsenal.

Their fans travel to Europe for club games more often & are less likely to attend England away games. Lads I know who go England away have told me Scousers & United fans are not welcome by certain elements of England's away support. United even sing anti England songs at games. Liverpool have Scouse not English chants.

Other clubs have more suburban & new towns support so will have more right wing fans. Such as Spurs & Chelsea. The latter two have been prominent amongst the Football Lads Alliance / EDL groups.

There are also other clubs such as Villa, Birmingham City, Sunderland who are anti right wing.

biko

The hooligans are probably there for the chance of a scrap.

Fun fact, "hooligan" is believed to come from an Irish surname, either Houlihan or O'Hooligan

CrankyHaus

biko wrote: »

The hooligans are probably there for the chance of a scrap.

Fun fact, "hooligan" is believed to come from an Irish surname, either Houlihan or O'Hooligan

It's the same name, O'Huallacháin, with various anglicised distortions from Wholihan (in the US of course) to Holland.

kowloon

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

At the risk of sounding like an idiot... I don't even know the difference between the left views and right views. It's all bollocks to be honest.

Like "I'm a left and you're a right. That bloke over there is a far-left and that woman across the road is a far right..... but see that granny that just passed us? She's an extreme right"

Load. Of. Bollocks.

The Left-Right political spectrum is abstraction to a degree that makes the terms vague and useless, but people like to classify things. Being able to divide everything into us and them is neat and easy. What's worse is people will abandon their own principles to fit further into the mould.