Some questions on dairy farming

morphy87

Follow a lot of threads here, I was just wondering about a few questions and looking for some information here about dairy farming and it would be great to get some replies from people here as their seems to be a lot of knowledgeable people here

How many dairy cows could you graze on a 45 acre block of land, good land recently reseeded? I know it depends on the year but just a normal year not one like this one,one of the dryest on records

kerryjack

30 but you would be flat out with the fertiliser spreader

Mooooo

Comfortable stocking rate would be a cow to the acre of all stock. I.e a calf and a heifer woukd equal 1 cow. So 35 cows and 10 heifers and calves. Have you other ground for silage and young stock? If so you could go to 55/ 60 cows with a small bit of silage feeding in the spring and autumn

morphy87

Mooooo wrote: »

Comfortable stocking rate would be a cow to the acre of all stock. I.e a calf and a heifer woukd equal 1 cow. So 35 cows and 10 heifers and calves. Have you other ground for silage and young stock? If so you could go to 55/ 60 cows with a small bit of silage feeding in the spring and autumn

Had cows years ago like most people back our way before my day,I remember about 15 or 16 years ago the conversation was that there will be no one left milking on our road,it’s nearly gone the full circle now lads that got out gone back in and more to follow I’d say,always had an interest in cows when younger

Yes I would have ground for silage and young stock, so you reckon 55 to 60 on that platform, say a British Frisian cow

Mooooo

Yeah, 55 would be 3 cows/ ha. During summer you would be still be baling some bit as grass would get ahead and you wouldn't have to buffer overly in spring and autumn weather dependant of course. Some people would be at 4/ ha which would be 70 cows for yourself and that would be buffering more and more risk in terms of weather and growth during the summer so would be too tight unless you have a lot of outside ground to bring in feed from?

morphy87

Mooooo wrote: »

Yeah, 55 would be 3 cows/ ha. During summer you would be still be baling some bit as grass would get ahead and you wouldn't have to buffer overly in spring and autumn weather dependant of course. Some people would be at 4/ ha which would be 70 cows for yourself and that would be buffering more and more risk in terms of weather and growth during the summer so would be too tight unless you have a lot of outside ground to bring in feed from?

When you mean draw in feed do you mean zero grazing? On average what would a British fresian milk over a year?

Timmaay

morphy87 wrote: »

When you mean draw in feed do you mean zero grazing? On average what would a British fresian milk over a year?

Draw in feed can mean zero graze, feeding leafy bales, maize beet or whatever else you can get your hands on. Let's say you stock your 45ac to 72 cows, or 4cows/ha, and on average each cow eats 17kgdm of grass while milking, 17x4 is a demand of 68kgdm on each ha, at times that your growing less than that then you will need to draw in feed to fill the gap between growth and demand, and when it's above that you get to bale the excess. A gr of 68 might not sound wild in May, however you definitely won't do it on the shoulder months (say Feb to April, Sept on), and then during periods of a drought like now.

For my fairly dry farm here, and I'm thankfully not under pressure in terms of the available grazing block land, so for me 3cows/ha, or an average demand of 51 across the whole season I think is the reasonable sweet spot for my system.

Mooooo

Doesn't have to be zerograzing can be silage made or whatever is available locally. Basically your farm stocking rate is determined by how much you can grow consistently to feed the stock on the farm. Otherwise you will be buying in more feed which can add cost.
There are variations within breeds so it all depends on where you'll source the cows from and then your management. In the first few years the herd will be younger so yields will be lower
If doing a plan perhaps work on yields of 5500 and a milk price of 30c. Work out other costs then and see where it leaves you. Once you have that done put in a price of 25c/ L and see if you can survive a year at that price. Join a local discussion group and perhaps engage an advisor that should help you along

morphy87

Timmaay wrote: »

Draw in feed can mean zero graze, feeding leafy bales, maize beet or whatever else you can get your hands on. Let's say you stock your 45ac to 72 cows, or 4cows/ha, and on average each cow eats 17kgdm of grass while milking, 17x4 is a demand of 68kgdm on each ha, at times that your growing less than that then you will need to draw in feed to fill the gap between growth and demand, and when it's above that you get to bale the excess. A gr of 68 might not sound wild in May, however you definitely won't do it on the shoulder months (say Feb to April, Sept on), and then during periods of a drought like now.

For my fairly dry farm here, and I'm thankfully not under pressure in terms of the available grazing block land, so for me 3cows/ha, or an average demand of 51 across the whole season I think is the reasonable sweet spot for my system.

Sound for all the information,before I say anymore I just want to say I’m not here to find out about anyone’s business or private matters, just here for some good information from people that know their stuff🤙

At current milk prices at 28 cents a litre, I know then their is a top up regarding solids, so how does one improve that? I know the cow plays a part but what else? And on average what would this top up be worth a litre?

morphy87

Mooooo wrote: »

Doesn't have to be zerograzing can be silage made or whatever is available locally. Basically your farm stocking rate is determined by how much you can grow consistently to feed the stock on the farm. Otherwise you will be buying in more feed which can add cost.
There are variations within breeds so it all depends on where you'll source the cows from and then your management. In the first few years the herd will be younger so yields will be lower
If doing a plan perhaps work on yields of 5500 and a milk price of 30c. Work out other costs then and see where it leaves you. Once you have that done put in a price of 25c/ L and see if you can survive a year at that price. Join a local discussion group and perhaps engage an advisor that should help you along

Roughly how many acres of silage would you want for 60 dairy cows? Let’s saw it’s a good crop yield wise and if you were to feed 5 kg of fooder beet to cut down on silage usage

morphy87

On average how much meal would a dairy cow eat during a season? I know it depends on weather etc but let’s just say an average year

visatorro

Stocked at 4.8 here. Feeding around 800 kg but will be over the tonne this year. Feck all silage taken from block. Feeding silage at shoulders and when grass is tight. Would be considered dry ground. Its workable but everything has to go right which doesn't happen most of the time 😕

morphy87

visatorro wrote: »

Stocked at 4.8 here. Feeding around 800 kg but will be over the tonne this year. Feck all silage taken from block. Feeding silage at shoulders and when grass is tight. Would be considered dry ground. Its workable but everything has to go right which doesn't happen most of the time ��

When you said you are stocked at 4.8 would you usually be trying to cut silage off that block as well as be stocked at that rate? For example if you had 25 hectares that would mean 120 cows to 25 hectares if my calculations are right?

Reggie.

kerryjack wrote: »

30 but you would be flat out with the fertiliser spreader

Not really. BIL has 105 cows on 50 acres. Most of his silage is bought standing off farm tho. He dies end up having roughly 100 or so bales off the paddocks aswell tho

morphy87

Reggie. wrote: »

Not really. BIL has 105 cows on 50 acres. Most of his silage is bought standing off farm tho. He dies end up having roughly 100 or so bales off the paddocks aswell tho

How much silage would he use for that amount of cows? The 50 acres was all that reseeded lately? Also would he run out of grass much of a normal year or does he zero graze to keep that amount of stock?

Gods Gift

If they all stood side by side and weren’t too fat.
10000

Reggie.

morphy87 wrote: »

How much silage would he use for that amount of cows? The 50 acres was all that reseeded lately? Also would he run out of grass much of a normal year or does he zero graze to keep that amount of stock?

I reseeded most of it in year 1 which was 2 years ago. I did the last 6 acres 3 weeks ago. Never runs out of grass. Always surplus to date. Running abit tight now but not panicking just yet. He is buffering slightly with previous surplus bales atm. He only farms the 50 acres. Takes the first cut off a local beef farmer. Also has 20ish heifer calves on that acerage to

morphy87

Reggie. wrote: »

I reseeded most of it in year 1 which was 2 years ago. I did the last 6 acres 3 weeks ago. Never runs out of grass. Always surplus to date. Running abit tight now but not panicking just yet. He is buffering slightly with previous surplus bales atm. He only farms the 50 acres. Takes the first cut off a local beef farmer. Also has 20ish heifer calves on that acerage too

How many acres of silage would he cut?

Reggie.

morphy87 wrote: »

How many acres of silage would he cut?

Last year total of 74 acres. This year 54 acres with 10 acres of maize prebought

morphy87

Reggie. wrote: »

Last year total of 74 acres. This year 54 acres with 10 acres of maize prebought

Does he fertilize the silage ground or does the beef farmer? Is your brother in law new to dairy?

Timmaay

morphy87 wrote: »

Does he fertilize the silage ground or does the beef farmer? Is your brother in law new to dairy?

He certainly doesn't fertilizer it using his own nitrates allowance anyways!

morphy87

Timmaay wrote: »

He certainly doesn't fertilizer it using his own nitrates allowance anyways!

He is probably able to beat the system like all ye boys! For that amount of cows how many ton of fertilizer would you be buying annually just for grazing?

Timmaay

visatorro wrote: »

Stocked at 4.8 here. Feeding around 800 kg but will be over the tonne this year. Feck all silage taken from block. Feeding silage at shoulders and when grass is tight. Would be considered dry ground. Its workable but everything has to go right which doesn't happen most of the time 😕

Fair play, average demand of something around 82 across the year! I assume your fairly religious with grass measuring and keeping the afc in check? Do you get many summer dips in growth? I've only another 150 cows to load onto the milking block here to hit that Sr lol

Reggie.

morphy87 wrote: »

Does he fertilize the silage ground or does the beef farmer? Is your brother in law new to dairy?

He fertilisers it and slurry it but it might go on the beef farmers books I dont know that

Reggie.

morphy87 wrote: »

Does he fertilize the silage ground or does the beef farmer? Is your brother in law new to dairy?

New entrant but dairy manager for about 15yrs elseehere

Reggie.

Timmaay wrote: »

He certainly doesn't fertilizer it using his own nitrates allowance anyways!

Maybe not. Dont know what that story is but exports abit of slurry to local beef farmers that look for it at the back end and in spring

morphy87

Reggie. wrote: »

He fertilisers it and slurry it but it might go on the beef farmers books I dont know that

I am just curious to know how much fertilizer would he purchase for the year? Just wondering how much of a cost it would be, trying to do up sums here on all costs

Reggie.

morphy87 wrote: »

I am just curious to know how much fertilizer would he purchase for the year? Just wondering how much of a cost it would be, trying to do up sums here on all costs

I'll ask later. Not spreading as much this year anyways.

morphy87

Reggie. wrote: »

I'll ask later. Not spreading as much this year anyways.

Sound

Turbohymac

Planning for the mad weather were getting of either very wet or else total drought..if you had 55 cows on that small holding over the last 6 weeks youd quickly realize that 30 /35 is your limit..also remember when you need to reseed fields your 45 will maybe only be 36 ???? How then would the 55 cows do.. theres lots crap going around with exactly how many cows to the acre or hectare especially by these teagasc experts but every farm is different..
In theory a fly can stop a train..in practice hed a pile of crap stuck to the front of it after impact.....
Its expensive and hard work and unless you could rent longterm or buy an adjoining farm.. 45 acres ain't going to be profitable to milk under 40 cows..
You can do all the matches and calculations you like and even persuade yourself on paper that it's a profitable runner..but you won't actually know your REAL costs until you're up and running for a few years..
Good luck..
I honestly think you'll need it