Cost to change

joseywales

Hi lads,

I wonder could I get your view on the cost to change of the following:

Going from BMW 520D SE auto161 with 71k miles. Imperial blue with black leather. Full BMW history, Upgraded 18 M Sport alloys, widescreen display (retrofit, not pro-nav). Excellent condition.

To 182 520D M Sport with 19k miles. Black sapphire with ivory leather. Fairly standard spec, no Harmon Kardon, adaptive headlights.

It’s an independent garage in Galway and asking 18k. Do you thinks it’s a bit much or is that a realistic cost to change? I’m tempted but feel it’s a lot to move 2 years, even allowing for the move from SE to MSport. Both cars are UK imports.

Appreciate your thoughts.

Heres Johnny

It's probably not too far off to be honest. Possibly just on the high side maybe.
I was quoted by many dealers 25k to change from a 141 Audi A6 S Line with 80k kms to a 182 530e last year. If you could get that change done for 15-16k I'd take it.

The way I look at it is a car in this class depreciates 50% in 3 years and it's ballpark 55-60k car new, with the m sport at the higher end of that range and the SE at the lower end.

50% in 3 years is very close to 20% a year using reducing balance method of you're familiar with accounting.

On a 60k car, values are as follows

1 year old 48k
2 years old 38.4k
3 years old 30.8k (50% of new value)
4 years old 24.6k
5 years old 19.7k
6 years old 15.5k (25% of new value)


Giving 14k difference between years 2 and years 4 and moving from SE to msport you might want to add a bit so 15 to 16k is where I would see as fair.

Is 18k his first offer?

joseywales

Heres Johnny wrote: »

It's probably not too far off to be honest. Possibly just on the high side maybe.
I was quoted by many dealers 25k to change from a 141 Audi A6 S Line with 80k kms to a 182 530e last year. If you could get that change done for 15-16k I'd take it.

The way I look at it is a car in this class depreciates 50% in 3 years and it's ballpark 55-60k car new, with the m sport at the higher end of that range and the SE at the lower end.

50% in 3 years is very close to 20% a year using reducing balance method of you're familiar with accounting.

On a 60k car, values are as follows

1 year old 48k
2 years old 38.4k
3 years old 30.8k (50% of new value)
4 years old 24.6k
5 years old 19.7k
6 years old 15.5k (25% of new value)


Giving 14k difference between years 2 and years 4 and moving from SE to msport you might want to add a bit so 15 to 16k is where I would see as fair.

Is 18k his first offer?

That was the offer over the phone. Went to drive car yesterday. Afterwards bit of discussion about price, I mentioned car needed rear tyres. And that first service was due. Offer was a main dealer service, new rear tyres and €250 off cost to change. Had it in my head that I’d deal at 17k but don’t think he’ll move that far. €17.5k maybe.

I’m an accountant so agree totally about depreciation figures! It’s the off putting bit, knowing the car will lose €17k in 3 years. Buts that’s motoring.

bazz26

Did you price a similar car elsewhere? Try a main dealer and see what they want given they will give you a 2 year warranty on a similar car. It's hard to know if it's competitive if you have nothing to compare it against. I'm not saying paying 9k per year is ok but your also going from an old model 5 Series to a new model 5 Series so that's a factor.

joseywales

bazz26 wrote: »

Did you price a similar car elsewhere? Try a main dealer and see what they want given they will give you a 2 year warranty on a similar car. It's hard to know if it's competitive if you have nothing to compare it against. I'm not saying paying 9k per year is ok but your also going from an old model 5 Series to a new model 5 Series so that's a factor.

Fair point Bazz. I have priced a few 18 reg MSports against mine. They are all 17/18k to change so maybe that’s the market after all. Main Dealers prices are the stuff of fantasy. Many of them are asking €37k for 17 reg MSport. So I didn’t bother. The one I looked at yesterday is asking a shade under €34k for a 182. Just shows you how unrealistic the main dealers are. I usually allow 2k for the 2 year warranty, but even factoring that in their prices are extortionate.

bazz26

I totally agree, main dealers take the proverbial but it might at least give you a base of reference/context around independent dealer price v main dealer price. Used UK prices are low so even independent dealers are making a nice profit on imports. Does it have to a diesel? The VRT on the 530e is much lower so if you were not doing high mileage and you had the facility to charge it then a 530e might work out a bit cheaper.

joseywales

bazz26 wrote: »

I totally agree, main dealers take the proverbial but it might at least give you a base of reference/context around independent dealer price v main dealer price. Used UK prices are low so even independent dealers are making a nice profit on imports. Does it have to a diesel? The VRT on the 530e is much lower so if you were not doing high mileage and you had the facility to charge it then a 530e might work out a bit cheaper.

Not necessarily but do around 15k miles annually, much it it on trips outside the electric range of the hybrid. It is a lovely car, my father has one and the engine feels nicer to drive to my mind than the 520d. However, diesel suits my situation better I feel.

kanuseeme

A 530e as bazz suggested, https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202002277779403?advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&year-from=2019&postcode=cv92pz&model=5%20SERIES&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&aggregatedTrim=M%20Sport&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&make=BMW&sort=price-asc&page=1

30.5 k euro vrt is about 2.5 k 191 reg 13000 miles, range on electric is around 40 km, I saw a post here on boards, some one got 50 km range,

Even if you sold your own car for 16000 euro, you have a slightly newer car with less miles for your 17000 euro

BTW that car dropped 2500£ since February.

joseywales

kanuseeme wrote: »

A 530e as bazz suggested, https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202002277779403?advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&year-from=2019&postcode=cv92pz&model=5%20SERIES&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&aggregatedTrim=M%20Sport&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&make=BMW&sort=price-asc&page=1

30.5 k euro vrt is about 2.5 k 191 reg 13000 miles, range on electric is around 40 km, I saw a post here on boards, some one got 50 km range,

Even if you sold your own car for 16000 euro, you have a slightly newer car with less miles for your 17000 euro

BTW that car dropped 2500£ since February.

There’s certainly value in going to UK. Did it myself a couple of years ago to buy my current car. Problem is the private sale. Trying to sell anything over 15k privately is difficult in my view. Lot of time wasters etc and plenty hassle. If I could arrange a private sale I’d definitely buy in UK again. That door may close in January 2021 however.

bazz26

If they are all pricing in or around 17-18k to trade up two years then that seems to be way things are. Not saying it's ok but you will always pay more to go from a SE to a M Sport and also from an old to a new model. Selling privately will be cheaper but as you said there is extra hassle in it. The only thing I can say is try and haggle a bit more off them to make it a bit more palatable. The alternative is to keep what you have.

Heres Johnny

Bazz points about moving between new and old models which I hadn't factored in is very valid too. Maybe 18k is where its at. Unfortunately. But I think a 5 series loses 30k in first 3 years, 15k in 2nd 3 years 7. 5k in 3rd 3 years which when you look at it like that, 18k is there or thereabouts.

joseywales

bazz26 wrote: »

If they are all pricing in or around 17-18k to trade up two years then that seems to be way things are. Not saying it's ok but you will always pay more to go from a SE to a M Sport and also from an old to a new model. Selling privately will be cheaper but as you said there is extra hassle in it. The only thing I can say is try and haggle a bit more off them to make it a bit more palatable. The alternative is to keep what you have.

Increasingly that’s looking like the best option! Nothing wrong with current car, just the old urge to change which I’m sure everyone on here is familiar with...Might just wait til next year and hope to change then for around 14/15k.

Thanks for the input lads, it’s always good to hear a few different independent opinions.

kanuseeme

See what the dealer will offer for your car, tell him your dad is going off on a cruise for a year and your buying his.

joseywales

kanuseeme wrote: »

See what the dealer will offer for your car, tell him your dad is going off on a cruise for a year and your buying his.

He has told me my car is ‘€15k to buy in UK’, and he’s allowing me a trade in of €16k. He would probably offer me €15k at best for mine in a straight purchase, if that’s what you mean. To be honest, it’s worth more to me than that even if it means I hold on to it. In other words if it was stolen or written off tomorrow I wouldn’t buy a similar car for €15k.

bazz26

joseywales wrote: »

He has told me my car is ‘€15k to buy in UK’, and he’s allowing me a trade in of €16k. He would probably offer me €15k at best for mine in a straight purchase, if that’s what you mean. To be honest, it’s worth more to me than that even if it means I hold on to it. In other words if it was stolen or written off tomorrow I wouldn’t buy a similar car for €15k.

Find out what his car costs to bring in from the UK if he wants to use that argument.

joseywales

bazz26 wrote: »

Find out what his car costs to bring in from the UK if he wants to use that argument.

That’s true. Whatever about cost to bring in, it’s €32k on the calculator when he goes to put Irish plates on. My reckoning is €32k less €15k is €17k max I would go to. If he doesn’t want to deal at that as you say there’s always another car. Be it next year or whenever. Just the low mileage on this one is attractive I suppose.

kanuseeme

joseywales wrote: »

That’s true. Whatever about cost to bring in, it’s €32k on the calculator when he goes to put Irish plates on. My reckoning is €32k less €15k is €17k max I would go to. If he doesn’t want to deal at that as you say there’s always another car. Be it next year or whenever. Just the low mileage on this one is attractive I suppose.

I was doing that, I just picked the cheapest m sport its few days short of a 182 reg, 15000 miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202003058048555?advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&year-from=2018&postcode=cv92pz&model=5%20SERIES&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&maximum-mileage=20000&aggregatedTrim=520d&make=BMW&sort=price-asc&page=1

I got a vrt of 5.3 k might be more or less, I did not go through all the variants on the calculator, total for my pick was 30 000 euro with delivery on top, so 2 to 3 k profit on that car and then what he will make on your trade in.

He is probably buying at auction also, so maybe another £1000 pounds less.

joseywales

kanuseeme wrote: »

I was doing that, I just picked the cheapest m sport its few days short of a 182 reg, 15000 miles https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202003058048555?advertising-location=at_cars&radius=1500&year-from=2018&postcode=cv92pz&model=5%20SERIES&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&maximum-mileage=20000&aggregatedTrim=520d&make=BMW&sort=price-asc&page=1

I got a vrt of 5.3 k might be more or less, I did not go through all the variants on the calculator, total for my pick was 30 000 euro with delivery on top, so 2 to 3 k profit on that car and then what he will make on your trade in.

He is probably buying at auction also, so maybe another £1000 pounds less.

Yes, there’s enough margin for him with €17k plus my car I’m sure. Thing is, he looks online and sees Colm Quinn or Conlons asking €40k plus for same car, of course he’s going to try and justify that his car is value and price the cost to change accordingly.

James Bond Junior

https://www.m6motors.ie/car-details/2557083/

Fire an email off about this? My Mam saved 6k on a 18 1 series last year versus our usual BMW dealer with this dealer.

joseywales

James Bond Junior wrote: »

https://www.m6motors.ie/car-details/2557083/

Fire an email off about this? My Mam saved 6k on a 18 1 series last year versus our usual BMW dealer with this dealer.

Might do that. Had seen that car but thought mileage was a little on the high side. Still, if the price was right...

joseywales

joseywales wrote: »

Might do that. Had seen that car but thought mileage was a little on the high side. Still, if the price was right...

Just called M6. Car is sold.

James Bond Junior

joseywales wrote: »

Just called M6. Car is sold.

Could they source anything for you?

joseywales

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Could they source anything for you?

I’m sure they could. Not sure I’d want to go that road though. Agree a price in advance? Or see what they come up with and decide if you want it or not? The advantages are you can ask for spec, etc like Harmon Kardon which you might hope to see in an online search. But do you commit to a deal before car is landed? Maybe my interpretation of sourcing a car is all wrong.

James Bond Junior

joseywales wrote: »

I’m sure they could. Not sure I’d want to go that road though. Agree a price in advance? Or see what they come up with and decide if you want it or not? The advantages are you can ask for spec, etc like Harmon Kardon which you might hope to see in an online search. But do you commit to a deal before car is landed? Maybe my interpretation of sourcing a car is all wrong.

Alan sourced a car for me and my mother. You agree a budget and spec within that. He will find it for you. Tbh I'd wholeheartedly reccomend it. You can be fussy about what you want.

joseywales

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Alan sourced a car for me and my mother. You agree a budget and spec within that. He will find it for you. Tbh I'd wholeheartedly reccomend it. You can be fussy about what you want.

Good to know. I’ll certainly consider it. Thanks for the info.

joseywales

Just to update thread, went ahead and bought the M Sport in the original post. €17.5k to change. More than I expected; but collected the car today and am delighted with it. Feels like a real step up from the F10. Cabin feels more roomy, particularly notice the headroom, I’m 6’2 and feels like there’s lots more space above you. Also went for ivory interior after black interior in my old car. Just makes the cabin brighter and more luxurious imo. Also first time getting an M Sport after 5 SE’s. Love the sharper styling and think/hope it will age better than an SE. So happy days.

James Bond Junior

Congrats, any pics?

joseywales

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Congrats, any pics?

A few here...

joseywales

joseywales wrote: »

A few here...

Sorry!

joseywales

Excuse the amateur photography

joseywales

joseywales wrote: »

Good to know. I’ll certainly consider it. Thanks for the info.

Incidentally, I spoke to M6 like you suggested. They were helpful, but cost to change was no better than I was getting already.

joseywales

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Alan sourced a car for me and my mother. You agree a budget and spec within that. He will find it for you. Tbh I'd wholeheartedly reccomend it. You can be fussy about what you want.

Incidentally, I spoke to M6 like you suggested. They were helpful, and gave me a detailed quote against a 181 M Sport from UK but cost to change was no better than I was getting already.