Demotion

NoQuarter

Bit of a random one here but is it possible to demote yourself in the military? Particulary, is it possible for an Irish officer to relinquish their commission but stay in the military as an enlisted person?

Does anyone know if it's written in black and white anywhere? Didn't spot it in the Defence Acts.

Thanks

Signore Fancy Pants

Very few officers relinquish their commission. I very much doubt there is a mechanism for a decommission to the enlisted ranks.

The only possible (but highly highly unlikely) exception could be an enlisted rank who undertook a Potential Officers Course and was subsequently promoted to an officer rank. While they may be on a "probationary" period and could be found unsuitable for command.

Although, I still do not see that as possible.

I do not recall ever seeing any reference to it in any Defence Forces Regulations or other administrative documents regarding promotions, retirements or relinquisments.

It wasn't me!

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Very few officers relinquish their commission. I very much doubt there is a mechanism for a decommission to the enlisted ranks.

The only possible (but highly highly unlikely) exception could be an enlisted rank who undertook a Potential Officers Course and was subsequently promoted to an officer rank. While they may be on a "probationary" period and could be found unsuitable for command.

Although, I still do not see that as possible.

I do not recall ever seeing any reference to it in any Defence Forces Regulations or other administrative documents regarding promotions, retirements or relinquisments.

A cadet, before commissioning, applies for their discharge and loses their enlisted army number. The same would be true for NCOs on a Potential Officer's course. So I doubt there's any mechanism to transfer from commissioned to enlisted service. In addition, a commission is a completely different type of employment than a contract, and as such it would be very difficult to draw comparisons. Should a Comdt be reenlisted as a Pte for example? I think it extremely unlikely that an officer who's had enough of command is ever going to think that what they need now is being on the wrong side of command for a change.

Signore Fancy Pants

It wasn't me! wrote: »

A cadet, before commissioning, applies for their discharge and loses their enlisted army number. The same would be true for NCOs on a Potential Officer's course. So I doubt there's any mechanism to transfer from commissioned to enlisted service. In addition, a commission is a completely different type of employment than a contract, and as such it would be very difficult to draw comparisons. Should a Comdt be reenlisted as a Pte for example? I think it extremely unlikely that an officer who's had enough of command is ever going to think that what they need now is being on the wrong side of command for a change.

Yeah im aware of the reissue of service numbers on change of service. Same is true for TTS personnel.

Theres really no mechanism at all for the OPs query.

NoQuarter

Thanks. Yes what the reasons would be is an aside, I was just wondering if it was possible.

The Defence Acts allow for RDF officers to relinquish but there doesn't seem to be the same provision for PDF.

I presume then that a 2/lt could never be demoted?

Signore Fancy Pants

NoQuarter wrote: »

Thanks. Yes what the reasons would be is an aside, I was just wondering if it was possible.

The Defence Acts allow for RDF officers to relinquish but there doesn't seem to be the same provision for PDF.

I presume then that a 2/lt could never be demoted?

I have rarely seen PDF relinquishments, its usually just RDF officers. I believe it may be to do with pension entitlements but im not 100% on that.

A 2/Lt cant be demoted as it would mean a reversion to a non officer rank. If there is a need, his/her advancement may be delayed and associated with his/her junior Cadet class, offsetting promotion and seniority by a number of years. As a PDF 2/Lt, is a non-graduate, they are required to complete 3rd level education. In this instance, he/she may be "advised" to retire.

It wasn't me!

Yep, it's happened before as a disciplinary measure, and in extreme cases, a commission can be withdrawn also. I don't know of any instances off the top of my head though. More common is the suggestion that a future career doesn't seem likely and some advice to consider civilian employment.

Signore Fancy Pants

It wasn't me! wrote: »

Yep, it's happened before as a disciplinary measure

You have seen a 2/Lt demoted to a Cadet?

It wasn't me!

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

You have seen a 2/Lt demoted to a Cadet?

No, I meant a 2/Lt not advanced in line with their own class. Still pretty rare mind!

Signore Fancy Pants

It wasn't me! wrote: »

No, I meant a 2/Lt not advanced in line with their own class. Still pretty rare mind!

Ah grand, yeah theres only a handful that it has happened to that I know of, <15. All warranted though.and some A/Capt's too.