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Self charging hybrids

  • 10-06-2020 7:44am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 948 ✭✭✭ Tim76


    Due to issues with installing a charge point at my apartment block I'm looking at going down the self charging route.

    Any recommendations out there apart from Toyota's offerings?

    I was looking at the Corolla but there are some diesels out there with similar MPG for less money.


Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,411 Mod ✭✭✭✭ slave1


    Popcorn time with that thread title!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Tim76 wrote: »
    Due to issues with installing a charge point at my apartment block I'm looking at going down the self charging route.

    Any recommendations out there apart from Toyota's offerings?

    I was looking at the Corolla but there are some diesels out there with similar MPG for less money.

    First thing first. No such thing as self charging. It’s a hybrid and the self charging is a slogan invented by Toyota. The petrol in the tank charges the electric motor.

    Also, you won’t need a charge point at all as you don’t plug it in.


  • Registered Users Posts: 738 ✭✭✭ Zenith74


    Could you tell us a bit about how much you’re looking to spend, what size car you need, what sort of mileage you do (particularly your daily commute) etc?

    Have you considered a plug-in hybrid (PHEV) that will act as a hybrid most of the time but if you happen to get a chance to plug it in (work charging, on-street chargers etc) you get more electric mileage.

    On your last query it’s probably worth weighing up what the world is going to look like for a diesel car in a few years time. They are already now loaded with a NOx tax at purchase time, this could well be expanded into road tax. They’re also top of the hit list for being banned in various cities at the moment. Risky enough time to buy a diesel I think.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    They self charge in much the same way my radiators self heat using a gas boiler.


  • Registered Users Posts: 948 ✭✭✭ Tim76


    Zenith74 wrote: »
    Could you tell us a bit about how much you’re looking to spend, what size car you need, what sort of mileage you do (particularly your daily commute) etc?

    Have you considered a plug-in hybrid (PHEV) that will act as a hybrid most of the time but if you happen to get a chance to plug it in (work charging, on-street chargers etc) you get more electric mileage.

    On your last query it’s probably worth weighing up what the world is going to look like for a diesel car in a few years time. They are already now loaded with a NOx tax at purchase time, this could well be expanded into road tax. They’re also top of the hit list for being banned in various cities at the moment. Risky enough time to buy a diesel I think.

    I live in an apartment block with no charge points and the management company are not willing to install any. There are no charge points at work and the nearest street point is about 2k away. Plug in is probably not be an option for me until my domestic circumstances change and that's a few years away at this stage.

    I'm looking for a mid-size family car, around the €25k mark and the daily commute is about 60km (round trip) - a section in the city and then mainly open road. Mostly city driving in the evenings and weekend.

    Definitely trying to stay away from the diesels and full petrols but the change to self charging hybrid doesn't seem to offer a whole lot more MPG.


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  • Moderators Posts: 12,065 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    Tim76 wrote: »
    .

    Definitely trying to stay away from the diesels and full petrols but the change to self charging hybrid doesn't seem to offer a whole lot more MPG.

    Drop the self charging bit. They're just a hybrid.

    Your driving seems to suit an EV (commute too long for a plug in to be of full benefit). If your housing situation is going to change in a few years time, would you consider buying something cheaper in the interim? As you say, hybrid isn't exactly giving you great savings, so why splash out 25k on one? Keep your current car or trade up a few years until you can get the right car, which seems like a full EV based on the info you've given us.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,484 ✭✭✭ Soarer


    Are you willing to head to the UK?

    'Cause if you are, this 2017 Optima PHEV Estate would be all the car you'd ever need.

    Remainder of the 7 year warranty.
    Think the electrics/battery has an 8 year warranty (not sure).
    Established dealer.
    VRT is less than €1200.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,170 ✭✭✭ zg3409


    60km a day means about 1500 per year in fuel. Going hybrid might save you 200 per year but has higher complication and risk of expensive faults. It might keep its price better for resale. A normal petrol might work too.

    There are lots of non plug in hybrids, not only Toyota but pretty much all makes have hybrid offerings.

    If you want to minimise your costs buy used or better still hang on to what you have for a bit longer and save. The older Prius that all seem to be taxis now were known to be reliable.


  • Registered Users Posts: 948 ✭✭✭ Tim76


    Drop the self charging bit. They're just a hybrid.

    Your driving seems to suit an EV (commute too long for a plug in to be of full benefit). If your housing situation is going to change in a few years time, would you consider buying something cheaper in the interim? As you say, hybrid isn't exactly giving you great savings, so why splash out 25k on one? Keep your current car or trade up a few years until you can get the right car, which seems like a full EV based on the info you've given us.

    Ok, plugless hybrid :)

    The current car is on it's last legs so my hand is being played. PHEV or full EV is definitely the preferred option but as mentioned it is probably a couple of years off yet.

    My wife's commute is only a 10k round trip within the city so the hybrid option would suit her better. If we do go with a plugless hybrid and then end up buying a PHEV in a few years time, it may be a case of swapping cars around to maximise fuel efficiency.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Tim76 wrote: »
    I live in an apartment block with no charge points and the management company are not willing to install any. There are no charge points at work and the nearest street point is about 2k away. Plug in is probably not be an option for me until my domestic circumstances change and that's a few years away at this stage.

    I'm looking for a mid-size family car, around the €25k mark and the daily commute is about 60km (round trip) - a section in the city and then mainly open road. Mostly city driving in the evenings and weekend.

    Definitely trying to stay away from the diesels and full petrols but the change to self charging hybrid doesn't seem to offer a whole lot more MPG.

    You don’t need a chargepoint.
    The Toyota hybrids are charged from the petrol engine. You physically cannot plug your car into a chargepoint.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 948 ✭✭✭ Tim76


    Gumbo wrote: »
    You don’t need a chargepoint.
    The Toyota hybrids are charged from the petrol engine. You physically cannot plug your car into a chargepoint.

    And that is why I am looking at Toyota hybrids


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,923 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    Tim76 wrote: »
    And that is why I am looking at Toyota hybrids

    Good around the city.
    My experience is once you got the motorway consumption jumps up.

    Overall savings to small petrol car are not great.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,412 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Tim76 wrote: »
    I live in an apartment block with no charge points and the management company are not willing to install any.

    My Brother investigated this too and it was a no go, due to billing issues, they will look into communal option in the future but this has to be voted on by residents.

    One way is to get recommendations here for companies who install them and get them to approach the management company, the real issues will be billing and access to proper power supply, for instance, they can tap into light circuits but not circuits for water pumps and lifts.

    2nd issue is billing, if it's communal based this will have to be voted on and residents will not vote on paying for someone else's electricity when they themselves don't have an electric car.

    The installer company can in some cases themselves be the ones to look after billing for a fee.

    Usually the fear to the management company is insurance and their natural instinct is to say no to any resident that comes near them for anything, if an external company approaches them with all the facts it might make them think different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,028 ✭✭✭ Lantus


    So at 60km a day your at around 1500 fuel a year petrol based on averaging 7l/100km.

    Your wife's fuel bills are so small a hybrid would offer no real benefit or saving economically. She's spending say 300 a year at 9l/100km. An elec bike or scooter and small petrol might be a nice option for her??

    For you I would say a good small engine petrol would be better with stop start. Pick the right car for the family and then see if a hybrid falls into those choices. Batteries are expensive and offer you and your family no real benefit in real terms in terms of features or comfort or value for money. You might cut your fuel bill by 200 or so a year but that's only 1k over 5 years or just 4% of the capital car cost in your case.

    So if the corrolla ticks every box then go for it. But if your picking a hybrid car and then picking the corolla as the best choice then maybe step back and just say what car you'd get if drive chain wasn't an issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,357 ✭✭✭ kirving


    Drop the self charging bit. They're just a hybrid.

    Really hard to blame the OP for the "Self Charging" nomenclature, as this is how Toyota were advertising them - and subsequently fell foul of the Advertising Standards Authority. I think they were also sneaky in saying how the cars spend "up to 50% of time on electric mode". ie: they're saying time, as opposed to distance which is an important caveat, since it's covering distance at speed where the most savings would otherwise be made. Sitting in commuter traffic, which most people do, doesn't use as much fuel.

    Toyota only started to say "self charging" to jump on the EV bandwagon, despite most of their offerings being just normal hybrids.

    OP, for the most part, a Plug-In Hybrid (PHEV) will have a larger battery than a standard (non-plug) Hybrid, and is designed to drive short to medium commutes on battery only. Normally, you'll be paying that bit extra for a larger battery and charging hardware, second hand maybe not so much of a premium.

    The thing is, you'd want to have quite a specific driving style to get the most out of a PHEV, in order to justify the extra cost and complexity of plugging in over a regular petrol.

    ie: you charge at night, your commute should closely match the Electric-only range to extract maximum benefit from this, but you regularly go on longer or unexpected trips which justifies the internal combustion engine.

    As Black Knight goes on to say, your commute, which is medium to long, would tend to suit an EV, but unfortunately you can't easily charge one.

    In city/mixed driving, a Hybrid version of a particular model will be more efficient than the equivalent petrol, but on the open road, you're then carrying around a battery that is of little use at speed.

    Hard to know really, as your case falls through the cracks in terms of EV charging, a commute that's just a little too long for a PHEV maximum benefit, and plenty of open road eating into traditional hybrid savings.

    The saving grave of PHEV however, is the low VRT makes them more attractive to import than ICE cars, so you may not pay any extra if you were to do import.

    If you could charge at work, I'd suggest a Mercedes C350e. Looks great, premium interior, PHEV when you can, loads of power, and you can see how you like the smooth city drving and how often you could charge in the real world (out shopping, work, etc).
    Your driving seems to suit an EV (commute too long for a plug in to be of full benefit). If your housing situation is going to change in a few years time, would you consider buying something cheaper in the interim?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    There is about 15 different makes of hybrids and some with multiple models, https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-asc&postcode=cv92pz&radius=1500&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric just click make and go through them.

    A hybrid will not give you any better mpg than a diesel, but I would expect the tide to turn against diesels at some stage, higher road tax or paying to enter city centers.

    As for a plug in with 40 km range, like a Mitsubishi outlander for a 60 km trip I got 117 mpg, for 110 km I would expect 60 mpg, 320 km around 40 mpg.

    For a phev/EV you need to charge at work,


  • Registered Users Posts: 948 ✭✭✭ Tim76


    kanuseeme wrote: »
    There is about 15 different makes of hybrids and some with multiple models, https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-search?sort=price-asc&postcode=cv92pz&radius=1500&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric just click make and go through them.

    Cheers. Jaysus, the Prius won't be winning any beauty contests.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,524 ✭✭✭ copeyhagen


    Tim76 wrote: »
    Cheers. Jaysus, the Prius won't be winning any beauty contests.

    liberty walk kitted ones are quality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,005 ✭✭✭ ei9go


    With the on street chargers going to be charged for sooner rather than later, there is little point buying a Plug in hybrid unless you can plug in at home. You would be paying for two fuels.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,156 ✭✭✭ kanuseeme


    Tim76 wrote: »
    Cheers. Jaysus, the Prius won't be winning any beauty contests.

    Forget about the honda insight then, I have to look at the badge to know the difference between them.

    I had an insight and a lexus ct, both are good,


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,412 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    I really wouldn't bother with a Hybrid in this day and age, Toyota are still using roughly the same tech since 2004, the only major differences are mods to the ICE and body.

    Work with companies who install chargers in apartments and get them to contact the management company.


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