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A future classic

  • 09-06-2020 12:49pm
    #1
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭


    Afternoon,

    Can you but a car in the north that will be vintage in a year or 2 and put it in storage until eligible for vintage vrt?


Comments

  • #2
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,093 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    Legally, no.

    Not your ornery onager



  • #3
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    morphman wrote: »
    Afternoon,

    Can you but a car in the north that will be vintage in a year or 2 and put it in storage until eligible for vintage vrt?

    Yes you can once you keep it in storage outside of the state, I would be careful though as I don't think anyone knows what the situation will be from the 1st of January with Brexit... in terms of what fees may be put on imported vehicles at that stage....


  • #4
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    Thanks lads, just as I thought... poor vintage cars are getting a hammering with the nox


  • #5
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    morphman wrote: »
    Thanks lads, just as I thought... poor vintage cars are getting a hammering with the nox

    At present there is no nox charge on any vehicle over 30 years of age...


  • #6
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    not2be wrote: »
    At present there is no nox charge on any vehicle over 30 years of age...

    I know mate but if you wanted to buy a 91 or 92 then there would be. Price e for 30 yr older would be more.


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  • #7
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    morphman wrote: »
    I know mate but if you wanted to buy a 91 or 92 then there would be. Price e for 30 yr older would be more.

    NoX shouldn't be an issue if its petrol.

    Diesel may be an issue alright.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #8
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    morphman wrote: »
    I know mate but if you wanted to buy a 91 or 92 then there would be. Price e for 30 yr older would be more.

    Ya its relative the nox charge, €600 on petrol cars.

    Of course there is €1000 difference between vrt'ing a 1991 or 1992 car compared to a car over 30... swings and roundabouts eh...

    What model or models are you interested in buying?


  • #9
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    galwaytt wrote: »
    not if its petrol.

    Diesel, maybe.

    Ah so nox doesn't apply to petrol?


  • #10
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    morphman wrote: »
    Ah so nox doesn't apply to petrol?

    it does: but petrol is much cleaner.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #11
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    galwaytt wrote: »
    it does: but petrol is much cleaner.

    Ah ok, 2l mr2 nox, what is that I wonder?


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  • #12
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    morphman wrote: »
    Ah so nox doesn't apply to petrol?

    no it does apply to petrol cars. for example May 1990 325i vrt: €200

    may 1991 325i vrt: €720 + nox charge; €600= total €1320


  • #13
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    morphman wrote: »
    Ah ok, 2l mr2 nox, what is that I wonder?

    its capped at €600 for a petrol vehicle where the nox level is unknown... I believe its capped at around €4750 on a diesel vehicle.


  • #14
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    not2be wrote: »
    its capped at €600 for a petrol vehicle where the nox level is unknown... I believe its capped at €4750 on a diesel vehicle.

    Rip off....


  • #15
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    morphman wrote: »
    Rip off....

    You need to get the actual NoX of the MR2 - anything else is guessing.

    The NoX will be low compared to the VRT at that age. Id be more concerned about the VRT

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #16
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    galwaytt wrote: »
    You need to get the actual NoX of the MR2 - anything else is guessing.

    Will get a pic of the v5


  • #17
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    galwaytt wrote: »
    You need to get the actual NoX of the MR2 - anything else is guessing.

    not in this case....

    If the vehicle is a 1991 or 1992 there will be no "nox" level on the certificate of conformity or v5 as they were not measured for this at that time by the manufacturer...

    The highest amount of nox is assumed by revenue... (nox emissions of 0.251) which amounts to €600 for a vehicle with minimum vrt... so yes they guess the highest level of Nox is the case...


  • #18
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    morphman wrote: »
    Will get a pic of the v5

    What year is the car?


  • #19
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    not2be wrote: »
    What year is the car?

    1992


  • #20
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    morphman wrote: »
    1992

    vrt & nox charge on a 1992 MR2 gt manual is €1341 in total, breaking down as (€741 vrt & €600 nox)


  • #21
    morphman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 96 ✭✭morphman


    not2be wrote: »
    vrt & nox charge on a 1992 MR2 gt manual is €1341 in total, breaking down as (€741 vrt & €600 nox)

    Cheers mate


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  • #22
    galwaytt
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,822 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    not2be wrote: »
    not in this case....

    If the vehicle is a 1991 or 1992 there will be no "nox" level on the certificate of conformity or v5 as they were not measured for this at that time by the manufacturer...

    The highest amount of nox is assumed by revenue... (nox emissions of 0.251) which amounts to €600 for a vehicle with minimum vrt... so yes they guess the highest level of Nox is the case...

    Only if you take the default value of NoX. Some research should turn up a specific value.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • #23
    not2be
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 47 ✭not2be


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Only if you take the default value of NoX. Some research should turn up a specific value.

    What is it you mean when you say " some research should turn up a specific value"? Do you mean a google search or...? can you post a link for the OP?

    I would be very surprised if you could you get a figure for this car and in any case the information would need to be on a V5, certificate of conformity or official document from the manufacturer/distributor for Revenue.

    I am of the understanding manufacturers started recording NOX emissions in the late 1990's, I am open to correction or more specific information regarding its introduction....


  • #24
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Only if you take the default value of NoX. Some research should turn up a specific value.

    Unless you're very lucky...it wasn't required to be recorded as a separate value until EURO III engines.

    There are combined values for CO2 and NOx for EURO II engines, but nothing separate. EURO I engines will have even less data.

    The €600 cap for petrol engines is equivalent to NOx of up to 80 mg/km (0.080g/km). I wouldn't like to think of the amounts chargeable if there weren't any caps.


  • #25
    BonnieSituation
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,085 ✭✭✭✭BonnieSituation


    macplaxton wrote: »
    Unless you're very lucky...it wasn't required to be recorded as a separate value until EURO III engines.

    There are combined values for CO2 and NOx for EURO II engines, but nothing separate. EURO I engines will have even less data.

    The €600 cap for petrol engines is equivalent to NOx of up to 80 mg/km (0.080g/km). I wouldn't like to think of the amounts chargeable if there weren't any caps.

    Is NOx not recorded on the MOT?

    Or is it a case that the space is there and only filled in by as you say EURO II+ cars?


  • #26
    macplaxton
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 2,957 Mod ✭✭✭✭macplaxton


    NOx isn't recorded on the MOT, just CO, HC and Lambda

    On the V5C I have for the 1998 EURO II car I last registered, it has nothing under emissions:

    516151.png

    516148.png

    on the VRC issued for it here, it only has the CO2 Emissions (g/km)

    516150.jpg

    I don't own a EURO III car, but do have a couple of 2005/06 EURO IV (V5C top of the page):
    516153.png

    Which shows seperate NOx (but on V5C this is grammes rather than milligrammes).

    516154.png

    The Irish VRC only shows data entry for V.7 - 139 (plus they don't log the type approval number even though there is an entry for it on the docs)

    If I were to VRT the 1998 car today, it'd be €680 CO2 (34% of minimum OMSP of €2000) + €600 NOx = €1280 VRT. If the 2005/6 car then €380 (19% OMSP of €2000) + €165 NOx (33 mg x €5)

    My beef is that they don't capture all the data even when available (such as towing weights) which are quite useful when touring round the EU or re-registering in another member state. It really needs another Directive to standardise the certificates (like they have sort of done with driving licences, rather than the half-arsed standardisation of just the field codes)


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