Island project - Will it be a disaster?

albernazj93

Hi guys,
Since December I'm having a battle to get my island project done. Some companies tell me it's not possible and other ones tell me it will be fine.

The biggest issue on this project is the breakfast bar. The island would have a base worktop 1590mm x 600mm and I'd like to add a breakfast bar hanging 300mm (as this is the recommended size for a confortable leg position).

The material:
Both worktop should be laminates. Maybe, if it needed the breakfast could be solid wood.




I was told if I want 300mm hanging, the breakfast bar should have another 300mm on top of the base worktop (glued or screwed). I don't think this would look nice because the base worktop would have 1590mm x 600mm and the breakfast 990mm x 600mm. It would take half of the base worktop. Instead of a breakfast bar it would look like another huge worktop.

Another solution would be to add a leg to the breakfast bar. However, it would make difficult for two people to sit down.

I have seen loads of breakfast project in the internet and I'm wondering how they managed to do it....

Any ideas?

Thanks!!!

awec

For one thing I think 990mm is too narrow for a breakfast bar, it won't be that comfortable for 2 people to use at the same time. It'll look nice in the staged photos and show houses when there's nobody sitting at it.

If you don't want a large overhang on top of the counter then you'll need to add supports at each side. But this will make it even more awkward for such a narrow space (since it'll provide an outer limit that chairs won't be able to go past).

albernazj93

awec wrote: »

For one thing I think 990mm is too narrow for a breakfast bar, it won't be that comfortable for 2 people to use at the same time.

If you don't want a large overhang on top of the counter then you'll need to add supports at each side. But this will make it even more awkward for such a narrow space (since it'll provide an outer limit that chairs won't be able to go past).

Yeah, that's what I was thinking... the supports would make it even worst.

Regarding the 990mm for two people, you are right; it would be the limit. I had read somewhere that average stool size if 420mm and it's suggested 150mm between each stool. That would be exactly 990mm.

awec

albernazj93 wrote: »

Yeah, that's what I was thinking... it would be awkward for two people to sit.



Regarding the 990mm for two people, you are right, it would be the limit. I had read somewhere that average stool size if 420mm and it's suggested 150mm between each stool. That would be exactly 990mm.

You are forgetting the 150mm between the stool and the edge of the counter. Your 990 only works if both people sit right up against the edge, which means their outer arms will have nowhere to rest.

albernazj93

awec wrote: »

You are forgetting the 150mm between the stool and the edge of the counter. Your 990 only works if both people sit right up against the edge, which means their outer arms will have nowhere to rest.

Oh, yeah, makes sense .


Maybe the best idea would be to apply a full size 1590mm breakfast bar (or even give up on the breakfast in this case). However, I'd need to move the wine fridge to another side. It would be weird having the wine fridge under the 300mm hanging worktop.

chillyspoon

As a side note / point of interest, have a look at this video from Manor Wood - it shows some of the complexity of fitting overhanging breakfast bars and he says it himself that the fitting process gave him sleepless nights in advance. The whole video is interesting but the fitting kicks off at about 09:30 and looks terrifying - they get one shot at it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzM2uPtJmk

albernazj93

chillyspoon wrote: »

As a side note / point of interest, have a look at this video from Manor Wood - it shows some of the complexity of fitting overhanging breakfast bars and he says it himself that the fitting process gave him sleepless nights in advance. The whole video is interesting but the fitting kicks off at about 09:30 and looks terrifying - they get one shot at it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzM2uPtJmk

Oh nice!! Very interesting. I will watch now at my lunch time. Thanks!!

albernazj93

chillyspoon wrote: »

As a side note / point of interest, have a look at this video from Manor Wood - it shows some of the complexity of fitting overhanging breakfast bars and he says it himself that the fitting process gave him sleepless nights in advance. The whole video is interesting but the fitting kicks off at about 09:30 and looks terrifying - they get one shot at it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkzM2uPtJmk

That's a hell lot of work! I was wondering why solid wood worktops are much more expensive than laminate, there is the answer!

The breakfast bar was added 50% on top and 50% hanging and glued. I was told this strategy might not work in my case, and sooner or later, the breakfast bar would come off.

Graham

All of the islands in your photos look like they're 900 or 1200+ deep, yours is going to look very skinny by comparison.

albernazj93

The kitchen is not huge, so the island size can't go bigger.

The measurement on the floor matches the ones I posted here. Also, I left 1m space between the island the sizes.

Graham wrote: »

All of the islands in your photos look like they're 900 or 1200+ deep, yours is going to look very skinny by comparison.

Yeah, if I give up the breakfast and with one full worktop 1590mm x 900m would look better?

Graham

Personally I'd go with the 900 worktop. I've always thought 600d islands look a bit like a sideboard that's been left in the middle of the room.

Added bonus, it will be much easier to put together; 2 cabinets, 2 doors, 2 end gables, 1 backpanel, a length of plinth, your worktop and your done.

albernazj93

Graham wrote: »

Personally I'd go with the 900 worktop. I've always thought 600d islands look a bit like a sideboard that's been left in the middle of the room.

Added bonus, it will be much easier to put together; 2 cabinets, 2 doors, 2 end gables, 1 backpanel, a length of plinth, your worktop and your done.

Yeah, I agree, maybe the 600 will look too small. The 900 worktop would end up being something like this:


I would not have the breakfast bar. Instead, a single worktop 1590mm x 900mm.
The wine fridge gets pushed forward. The space behind the wine fridge could be added some shelves.


Although, I'd still have a small space for people to sit. However, the worktop would not be a breakfast bar and the person on the left side would have space to rest the left arm. We need to consider as well I live by myself, so 90% of time it will be only myself having breakfast there.






The wine fridge and the area to sit would look like this:

Graham

I could see that working.

I'd switch the 390 base for a 400 so you can use a stock cab/door. I'd make the depths 570 to keep them standard and allow for a slight overhang of the worktop use a 600 wall cab with added legs for your shelf cab.

Keep in mind your gables are going to be 20mm ish and you'll probably want the worktop to overhang the ends slightly. 1590 probably would leave you short.

Are you planning to make the gables/back panel or use standard panels? If you're buying doors/panels you might need to cut and edge the back panel and 900w gable/s yourself from an 8x4.

awec

Why not ditch the orange shelves, put the wine fridge at the other side and have the breakfast bar run the full length? It will be infinitely more usable.

That said, it's quite a small space for an island, there's literally only 2 tiles worth of floor space on the floor between your counters and your island. 2 people won't be able to move freely around the kitchen. I would personally stick a piece of real furniture, or a large cardboard box or something on that space for a few weeks and see if you keep bumping into it or find the space tight.

Tape is useful, but it doesn't really give you a true idea of what the space will be like to move about in.

chillyspoon

albernazj93 wrote: »

The breakfast bar was added 50% on top and 50% hanging and glued. I was told this strategy might not work in my case, and sooner or later, the breakfast bar would come off.

I think it's sound advice, the gluing area in the video is absolutely massive and is on to polished smooth granite, which only an earthquake would shift.

Gluing onto another worktop, particularly if it's a laminate with just a millimetre veneer could be sketchy over time!

A mitigating option would be to have threaded inserts in the underside of the breakfast bar that are bolted through from the storage beneath. You'd still want the glue or at least a layer of sealant to stop capillary action from pulling in spilled liquids.

chooseusername

chillyspoon wrote: »

I think it's sound advice, the gluing area in the video is absolutely massive and is on to polished smooth granite, which only an earthquake would shift.

Gluing onto another worktop, particularly if it's a laminate with just a millimetre veneer could be sketchy over time!

A mitigating option would be to have threaded inserts in the underside of the breakfast bar that are bolted through from the storage beneath. You'd still want the glue or at least a layer of sealant to stop capillary action from pulling in spilled liquids.

True, sooner or later someone will put a foot on it to change a lightbulb, or paint the ceiling.
However if it could be achieved ,I would have the seats facing the door.
Whatever the view , it must be better than the washing machine,
and move it out a bit from the busy part of the kitchen,i.e; the hob, sink, fridge triangle

albernazj93

Graham wrote: »

I could see that working.

I'd switch the 390 base for a 400 so you can use a stock cab/door. I'd make the depths 570 to keep them standard and allow for a slight overhang of the worktop use a 600 wall cab with added legs for your shelf cab.

Keep in mind your gables are going to be 20mm ish and you'll probably want the worktop to overhang the ends slightly. 1590 probably would leave you short.

Are you planning to make the gables/back panel or use standard panels? If you're buying doors/panels you might need to cut and edge the back panel and 900w gable/s yourself from an 8x4.

Hey, amazing tips!!! Thanks!

• I will add 10mm to it and make the 390mm > 400mm.
• Also, I did not know the standard depth was 570. I will change it in the design!
• Are gables the hanging part around the island? Yeah, that's true; I need to think about it. I checked my kitchen, and it seems to have 20mm hanging.

Regarding the project, I'm going with B&Q and Woodies as I don't know any other company that makes this type of project. As Woodies is too pricey, I will order with them the doors/panels. B&Q I will buy the cabs and worktop.

awec wrote: »

Why not ditch the orange shelves, put the wine fridge at the other side and have the breakfast bar run the full length? It will be infinitely more usable.

That said, it's quite a small space for an island, there's literally only 2 tiles worth of floor space on the floor between your counters and your island. 2 people won't be able to move freely around the kitchen. I would personally stick a piece of real furniture, or a large cardboard box or something on that space for a few weeks and see if you keep bumping into it or find the space tight.

Tape is useful, but it doesn't really give you a true idea of what the space will be like to move about in.

Great idea. I will set a few cardboard and make sure it does not bother me.



I would prefer the wine fridge facing the kitchen only because it would look nice.
I could maybe set it facing the backyard and have the breakfast full length.

EDIT: Another option would be a smaller wine fridge. I have seen some built in ones 400mm. This would increase 200mm the leg space.

chillyspoon wrote: »

I think it's sound advice, the gluing area in the video is absolutely massive and is on to polished smooth granite, which only an earthquake would shift.

Gluing onto another worktop, particularly if it's a laminate with just a millimetre veneer could be sketchy over time!

A mitigating option would be to have threaded inserts in the underside of the breakfast bar that are bolted through from the storage beneath. You'd still want the glue or at least a layer of sealant to stop capillary action from pulling in spilled liquids.

Yeah, that sounds a lot of trouble. I'm nearly giving up the breakfast bar idea as going with a simple and standard worktop.

chooseusername wrote: »

True, sooner or later someone will put a foot on it to change a lightbulb, or paint the ceiling.
However if it could be achieved ,I would have the seats facing the door.
Whatever the view , it must be better than the washing machine,
and move it out a bit from the busy part of the kitchen,i.e; the hob, sink, fridge triangle

Yesterday I was thinking about having the seats facing the door (def a lot better view), to do that I would need to make the island a bit shorter or accept the fact that when someone is sitting there, I'd not be able to go through.

Graham

Sorry, when I mentioned gables I'm talking about the 2 panels at either end of the island. You'd generally plant them on to the exposed sides of the end cabinets.

A standard base end panel would generally be 900 x 650. If that works for you it means you won't have to cut and edge your end panels, just trim the top.

Your last design looks like you'll want at least one end panel around 870 x 870

keithdub

Where abouts are you located? There is plenty of cabinet makers and kitchen installers in ireland that would be willing to help. If you are near Dublin you could try ikea if your into using big companies

albernazj93

Graham wrote: »

Sorry, when I mentioned gables I'm talking about the 2 panels at either end of the island. You'd generally plant them on to the exposed sides of the end cabinets.

A standard base end panel would generally be 900 x 650. If that works for you it means you won't have to cut and edge your end panels, just trim the top.

Your last design looks like you'll want at least one end panel around 870 x 870

Hey Graham, thanks alot for your clarification. Sorry delay to reply, I ended up busy with another project in the garden. I'm still eating in the couch as I haven't finished the island project and sent to B&Q and Woodies.



I have updated the design with your suggestion.


1. Changed the storage to 400mm W and 570mm D
2. Changed the wine fridge from 600 W to 500 W (considering a 34 bottle wine fridge)
3. The space for breakfast ended up longer from 990mm to 1000mm (due to the smaller wine fridge)
4. Calculated the worktop considering 20mm hanging in each side + 20mm gable


I would not cut myself (although I'd love to try) because I don't have the tools and skills. I'm in touch with B&Q and Woodies. Woodies the panel colour I want and B&Q has the units + door price I can afford.

keithdub wrote: »

Where abouts are you located? There is plenty of cabinet makers and kitchen installers in ireland that would be willing to help. If you are near Dublin you could try ikea if your into using big companies

Hey, I'm located in Donabate. I'm in touch with Woodies and B&Q. They seem helpful, but the Woodies one kinda of did not like the fact I want to buy just the boards and not the full project (which costs 1000 € more than B&Q).
I'm trying to find out every single piece I will need from them and I will buy it separately.


I booked a consultation with IKEA, but they have a long waiting queue...

Graham

Find a way to fit everything under a 900D worktop. That extra 10mm will make you cry!

I'd allow for a gable between the wine fridge and the storage otherwise your going to be looking at the side of an appliance and the side of a cabinet

albernazj93

Graham wrote: »

Find a way to fit everything under a 900D worktop. That extra 10mm will make you cry!

I'd allow for a gable between the wine fridge and the storage otherwise your going to be looking at the side of an appliance and the side of a cabinet

I think I can make the worktop 900mm as I problably won't need 20mm hanging on the inside part (where I will have the bin and storage doors) ?




Good point, I need to add these gable boards in the calc

albernazj93

Woodies' reply when I told them I would buy only the boards from them, instead of the full project.

Graham

I don't think Woodies offer off-standards in their own kitchens so not surprised to see you've been give a list of stock panel sizes.

You've got 2 major suppliers of kitchen parts in your part of Dublin, both open to the public. Is there a reason you're sticking to the DIY sheds?

albernazj93

Graham wrote: »

I don't think Woodies offer off-standards in their own kitchens so not surprised to see you've been give a list of stock panel sizes.

You've got 2 major suppliers of kitchen parts in your part of Dublin, both open to the public. Is there a reason you're sticking to the DIY sheds?

It would not be a complete DIY, although I could assembly it if its necessary.


Woodies quoted 1700 euros for this island.
B&Q only 750 euros.


The only problem B&Q does not have the boards in the colour I want. Also, B&Q does not sell the boards in the size you require. I would need to hire a fitter to cut and fit the boards.


If I could buy it from B&Q the full project and paint the boards myself, that would be great. I'm just afraid it does not look nice.