Forced back into the office

Guffy

We've been working remotely since the lockdown and I've loved it. No traffic, no commute, saved a fortune but they're making us go back in on friday. Just venting.

Neames

I thought the advice is to continue to work from home where possible.

Why are you being asked to go back into the office when the hse advice is to continue working from home where possible?

Beechwoodspark

The advice as far as i understand it is

“Work from home if possible”

My place (pr1ck of a boss who since moved on) tried to get me back about 3 times so far but I’ve point blank refused and made them admit I was carrying out my duties from home just as good - I would say even better - than stuck in a cooped up car driving around like a demented wasp from store to store.

Also I reminded them of one positive they wanted to hear - no mileage expenses

Guffy

Neames wrote: »

I thought the advice is to continue to work from home where possible.

Why are you being asked to go back into the office when the hse advice is to continue working from home where possible?

System has mysteriously begun to crash for the last week

Sono

No chance you can be forced back in, it will be optional for us when we do go back. Wfh all the way now.

lashes34

The line from the government is you must work from home if possible. Its obviously possible so I would refuse to. I cant see how they can force you. I will be fighting it as long as I can when there is talk of us going back in.

Every single person extra they bring back is increasing the risk of infection for everyone, its a no brainer to leave people work from home.

daheff

Remind them of Govt guidance that you must work from home if you can still. Ask them will their insurance cover if somebody contracts Covid onsite when Govt advise is to wfh. That'll soften their cough.

And if they continue to demand you go in, report them.

Annabella1

Won’t be long before employers realise that working from Riga and Mumbai may be much cheaper
Be careful what you wish for

screamer

There’s plenty of people already back in their offices for weeks, there’s also plenty who never got the chance to work from home. Just make sure that there’s adequate distancing, cleaning and general cop on in the office and you’ll be fine.

screamer

Annabella1 wrote: »

Won’t be long before employers realise that working from Riga and Mumbai may be much cheaper
Be careful what you wish for

Yep and that’s the truth

stevek93

Another thread about being told to go back to the office... Anything you can't do at home OP that requires you to be in the office?

Sono

Annabella1 wrote: »

Won’t be long before employers realise that working from Riga and Mumbai may be much cheaper
Be careful what you wish for

A lot of companies would have realised this already and would have outsourced a lot of work to these places, the company saves a lot of money from staff not being in the office too don’t forget.

mikemac2

Annabella1 wrote: »

Won’t be long before employers realise that working from Riga and Mumbai may be much cheaper
Be careful what you wish for

That process started already years ago for some office based jobs

Annabella1

Annabella1 wrote: »

Won’t be long before employers realise that working from Riga and Mumbai may be much cheaper
Be careful what you wish for

How many times are people going to post this and have it explained the many reasons it won't happen. If it could be done it would have been done already, things are going to opposite way also in many cases with work being brought back to Europe as outsourcing really doesn't work well in an awful lot of instances and doesn't save near as much money either.

John_Rambo

mikemac2 wrote: »

That process started already years ago for some office based jobs

That's been happening for a while in my old ad agency. Two photo-retouchers in South America utilised successfully. Very cheap and the work is excellent, also, plenty of photoshop clipping/cutout set ups in India being utilised too.

However, I don't think working from home is the reason for international outsourcing. It was going to happen anyway. Forcing people back in to the office when they can work from home is just old school factory floor thinking when a weekly physical meeting would suffice.

Strumms

How are they communicating their desire for you to return to the office ? Is it by phone or by email ?

If it’s by phone, send a follow up email...along the lines of...

Dear asdf,

Further to our phone call at 11.30, today the 09/06/20, I’d like written confirmation of the following....

- when exactly you want me to return to working from the office ?

- what has prompted this request ?

- what safeguards are and will be in place to 100% guarantee my health, safety and that of all colleagues on site ?

- has a risk assessment been completed up to and including consultation and advice from independent Health & Safety specialists outside of the company ?

- if not , WHY NOT ? If this HAS been completed can and will this be made available to all staff members in advance of an agreed return to the workplace ? Again , if not ?... WHY NOT ?

I am happy, enthusiastic and indeed looking forward to returning in person to the workplace but am only happy and prepared to do so when by doing so, our health and safety can be guaranteed by independent specialists in the field of health / occupational health... obviously in times of great difficulty and uncertainty like we’ve ALL had to endure and are enduring this WILL need to be assured before a return in person can be arranged and facilitated.

Thanks & regards,

John Smith.

—————

encourage all and every conversation with them in writing, the usual thing to expect is “ohhh Mike, just read your email, interesting points, let’s discuss...” NOPE ! You don’t have a work phone, therefore contact and conversation is via email, EVERYTHING documented and in writing.

gibgodsman

People seem to be getting a little delusional about the entire thing, I had Covid in March, been working from home since, went back into the office yesterday, all my work was done from home without issue, but they needed me back in the office, as in my contract, I work in their office, that is what I must do.

This thinking of "Ha Government said this so now my employer must do what I say" is not going to work, the government won't defend you if your employer lets you go and employs someone who is actually willing to adhere to their contract.

If they have all the safety precautions in place, you have absolutely no right to work from home, many businesses allowed this so that you didn't lose your job and have to go on the Covid Payment, and they paid you to do so, yes you got the work done, but that is not the point.

I get everyones fears, but at this point,with Covid down to >10 cases per day, there is no better time to go back to work and try get back to some normality, working from home was great, and everyone who did it more than likely loved it like myself, but your contract doesn't state work from home, it states working in an office etc.

Strumms

gibgodsman wrote: »

People seem to be getting a little delusional about the entire thing, I had Covid in March, been working from home since, went back into the office yesterday, all my work was done from home without issue, but they needed me back in the office, as in my contract, I work in their office, that is what I must do.

This thinking of "Ha Government said this so now my employer must do what I say" is not going to work, the government won't defend you if your employer lets you go and employs someone who is actually willing to adhere to their contract.

If they have all the safety precautions in place, you have absolutely no right to work from home, many businesses allowed this so that you didn't lose your job and have to go on the Covid Payment, and they paid you to do so, yes you got the work done, but that is not the point.

I get everyones fears, but at this point,with Covid down to >10 cases per day, there is no better time to go back to work and try get back to some normality, working from home was great, and everyone who did it more than likely loved it like myself, but your contract doesn't state work from home, it states working in an office etc.

Your contract wasn't written up with this world health situation in mind, it was written and signed with a fully functional and functioning society not having to endure the worst and most dangerous health epidemic, that has infected over 25,000 people and cost the lives of 1683, so far, in the country. Going back to work for who and what industries will be determined by experts, not money grabbing fiends.

Sono

gibgodsman wrote: »

People seem to be getting a little delusional about the entire thing, I had Covid in March, been working from home since, went back into the office yesterday, all my work was done from home without issue, but they needed me back in the office, as in my contract, I work in their office, that is what I must do.

This thinking of "Ha Government said this so now my employer must do what I say" is not going to work, the government won't defend you if your employer lets you go and employs someone who is actually willing to adhere to their contract.

If they have all the safety precautions in place, you have absolutely no right to work from home, many businesses allowed this so that you didn't lose your job and have to go on the Covid Payment, and they paid you to do so, yes you got the work done, but that is not the point.

I get everyones fears, but at this point,with Covid down to >10 cases per day, there is no better time to go back to work and try get back to some normality, working from home was great, and everyone who did it more than likely loved it like myself, but your contract doesn't state work from home, it states working in an office etc.

You do realise people not being in the office saves the company money too right? After this pandemic is over whenever that is there will be a cost cutting exercise done in most companies which have been effected.

There are so many benefits to both the employer and employee to working from home once the working at home environment meets health and safety requirements.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

Your contract wasn't written up with this world health situation in mind, it was written and signed with a fully functional and functioning society not having to endure the worst and most dangerous health epidemic, that has infected over 25,000 people and cost the lives of 1683, so far, in the country. Going back to work for who and what industries will be determined by experts, not money grabbing fiends.

You need to go and look up what a contract is.

Hint: it is not something that can be changed just because.

gibgodsman

salonfire wrote: »

You need to go and look up what a contract is.

Hint: it is not something that can be changed just because.

Its like people think because there is a pandemic, any legal binding contract is just erased, look up contractual law, nothing can effect a contract bar stipulations inserted into such. Your employer loses his businesses because of the pandemic, you worked for him for 20-30 years, do you just lose your redundancy payment because "Pandemic, sorry mate we don't have to adhere to that"

Jayleen Modern Someday

Jayleen Modern Someday wrote: »

How many times are people going to post this and have it explained the many reasons it won't happen. If it could be done it would have been done already, things are going to opposite way also in many cases with work being brought back to Europe as outsourcing really doesn't work well in an awful lot of instances and doesn't save near as much money either.

Companies are looking to save money on office space by having Employees WFH post-Covid.

This could have been done already. But wasn't till now.

What makes you think "could have been done already" will stop out-sourcing post Covid?

gibgodsman

gibgodsman wrote: »

Its like people think because there is a pandemic, any legal binding contract is just erased, look up contractual law, nothing can effect a contract bar stipulations inserted into such. Your employer loses his businesses because of the pandemic, you worked for him for 20-30 years, do you just lose your redundancy payment because "Pandemic, sorry mate we don't have to adhere to that"

I'd love to see Strumms' face if the tables were turned on him like that and the employer pulled out that line :pac:

Strumms

salonfire wrote: »

You need to go and look up what a contract is.

Hint: it is not something that can be changed just because.

You need to look it up yourself, and catch yourself on to what’s being going on in the country. Not ‘just because’...

Beechwoodspark

I’ve had my employer (actually one of the hr minions) ring me once again this morn asking when I plan to get back working (driving around as a sales rep)

I unbelievably had to explain once again and quite slowly as they tried to hush me/shout me down over the phone line.

The message did get through and as a bonus they are going to circulate the C19 working from home guidelines to me which is a bit of progress

Strumms

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

I’ve had my employer (actually one of the hr minions) ring me once again this morn asking when I plan to get back working (driving around as a sales rep)

I unbelievably had to explain once again and quite slowly as they tried to hush me/shout me down over the phone line.

The message did get through and as a bonus they are going to circulate the C19 working from home guidelines to me which is a bit of progress

It’s always a smart tactic... “ ok, put that all in email and I’ll get back to you “

Everything is documented, Give them no wiggle room

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

It’s always a smart tactic... “ ok, put that all in email and I’ll get back to you “

Everything is documented, Give them no wiggle room

Unless it is a contract. In which case, you'll try wriggle out of it.

Strumms

salonfire wrote: »

Unless it is a contract. In which case, you'll try wriggle out of it.

Never needed to my friend,

s1ippy

Boss sent mass email today about filing we need to do which seemingly absolutely cannot wait, in their mind. Apparently we're not allowed to print the confidential docs at home and bring them in to file them due to GDPR (not sure how it's a breach when we use our encrypted drive and only we handle or see them in transit). Their solution is to have 12 of us come in at the same time at the end of the month to two printers in literally a 8x10ft office and put them in the correct folders in the cupboard.

I'm 100% confident I won't even have to kick up a fuss because it's so plainly ridiculous.

meeeeh

salonfire wrote: »

You need to go and look up what a contract is.

Hint: it is not something that can be changed just because.

Regardless of the contract advice is still to work from home where possible. I work from home because I can and the rest are back to work because they can't. There are companies who had to close because they can't work from home and the last thing you want is the office workers who can work remotely clogging up the public transport.

That being said anyone healthy and not living with someone who is in at risk group still being too worried to go to workplace (if there is no other option) is a bit of a drama queen in my opinion.

marieholmfan

gibgodsman wrote: »

Its like people think because there is a pandemic, any legal binding contract is just erased, look up contractual law, nothing can effect a contract bar stipulations inserted into such. Your employer loses his businesses because of the pandemic, you worked for him for 20-30 years, do you just lose your redundancy payment because "Pandemic, sorry mate we don't have to adhere to that"

I reported this post : I recommend Atiyah the rise and fall of freedom of contract.

marieholmfan

salonfire wrote: »

You need to go and look up what a contract is.

Hint: it is not something that can be changed just because.

Post reported : you need to read the rise and fall of freedom of contract by Patrick Atiyah

gibgodsman

marieholmfan wrote: »

I reported this post : I recommend Atiyah the rise and fall of freedom of contract.

You sound fun

beauf

Annabella1 wrote: »

Won’t be long before employers realise that working from Riga and Mumbai may be much cheaper
Be careful what you wish for

I wish them well. Cost cutting to the bone with out sourcing has blown up spectacularly for many.

beauf

beauf wrote: »

I wish them well. Cost cutting to the bone with out sourcing has blown up spectacularly for many.

Has it?

Considering it's what half Ireland's economy is based on, I don't see much blowing up going on.

Call Centers, backend office processing is based here from Multi-Natationals as a way of cost-cutting for them beit via Corporation Tax, an overly generous IDA or plain crap wages

daheff

Annabella1 wrote: »

Won’t be long before employers realise that working from Riga and Mumbai may be much cheaper
Be careful what you wish for

That's true....but there are already reasons why they don't employ people living in those areas. Taxes for one. If you suddenly employ a number of people in another country you then maybe up with a deemed presence and have to pay local country corporation taxes. Employees may end up being caught in Irish and 2nd country tax nets making it unprofitable for them long term.