Mad to buy hybrid now?

spitonmedickie

Would I be mad to buy a 2019/2018 hybrid now with a few to holding onto it for 7/8 years? Commute is short (less than 10 mins each way) on country roads, few 20km each way trips a week, few 30km+ trips a week (all on regional roads)!and the odd 100k+ trip.

Issues with electric are cost but mainly that I'm renting and can't charge at home, that'll be the case for another 2 years or so and very limited charging opportunities at work.

Is hybrid dead? Even if I head into it til mid/late 2020s with a view to going electric then around then ICE is banned?

Forgive me, I know this may be done to death but search isn't working for me (just me?) and I had a look over a few pages of threads but didn't find what I need.

Gumbo

You say cost is an issue.
How much are you spending on the 2018/2019 hybrid?

Have you spoke to your landlord about fitting a charger? He/she may be delighted and you can get the cheapest, most basic one possible to reduce your outlay as much as possible as it will most likely have to stay there once you move.

Black_Knight

Ice won't be dead for a while yet. Second hand even longer.

Do you need to change car now? Might buying electric in the 2 years you mention above be a better option than what you somewhat already concede is a meh choice.

My thoughts on hybrid are that it's grand, nice to have I guess, but in this day and age "buying hybrid" is a non point. All cars these days are hybrid. Buying hybrid just means you're likely buying a relatively new car.

unkel

ICE cars won't be banned from all our roads until 2046. The sale of new ICE cars won't be banned until 2030 at the earliest. But of course it will be entirely possible that ICE cars (or some of them like diesels) will be banned from cities well before then

If you are likely to stay renting your current house, you might well do a deal with the landlord that you pay for the install of an electric vehicle charge point (claiming the EUR600 subsidy that should pay for most or all of it) and you will leave it to the landlord for free when you leave the house

You have to tell us more about your driving pattern and your budget for us to recommend you a car, be it an fuel only, hybrid, plug in hybrid or fully electric car

spitonmedickie

Thanks for all the above. No driveway in the rental so that's the issue. Yearly mileage has been inconsistent last while but c. 20000km. Budget is c. 20/22k. I'd like something as modern as possible with a view to not changing again for a good long while

unkel

Maybe consider not doing anything for a while until you know more about your future? Playing devil's advocate here and sorry if that's not being helpful, but spending 20k on a car that might not suit you in the near future is a serious commitment, that might turn out to be a serious mistake?

spitonmedickie

unkel wrote: »

Maybe consider not doing anything for a while until you know more about your future? Playing devil's advocate here and sorry if that's not being helpful, but spending 20k on a car that might not suit you in the near future is a serious commitment, that might turn out to be a serious mistake?

Cheers. It's the house situation may change but mileage, journeys etc shouldn't so guess it's more if electric is the best, no brainer option yes I should wait but if hybrid is a legit option possibly move ahead with looking at it more.

Atlantic Dawn

Why not get a 2014/2015 hybrid instead if unsure, less money involved and you can later upgrade in a few years if you wish?

touts

I'd hold off. The market will absolutely collapse in the Covid Depression but the cars are made and will have to be sold. You should get great prices and even better financing arrangements from dealers in the second half of this year.

blueskys

I'm in the same boat as you similar commute and mileage.Was looking at passat gte 2017/18 , 30 odd miles on electric, around 20k..But like the others said, and I agree, hold off as long as you can. Prices are and will fall. You'll get an awful lot more bang for buck in two years.I have a 10yr old passat which I know inside out by this stage and am happy to drive it to the ground as it's not worth selling.

spitonmedickie

Cheers folks, see what the second half of the year throws up but probably wait two more years and decide then seems sound too.

Don't remember as I wasn't in the market for a car at the time - did the last recession really make cars much cheaper? Know there were pre reg deals alright..

Lantus

Your daily mileage and annual don't make sense. 20k a year is 400km a week. Your 5 minute and occasional 20km trips don't get close??

spitonmedickie

Lantus wrote: »

Your daily mileage and annual don't make sense. 20k a year is 400km a week. Your 5 minute and occasional 20km trips don't get close??

I wouldn't have been sure til I looked over recent services and the mileage at them and also the NCT. There were long work drives in that (which I'm anticipating will reduce as meetings stay virtual) but think it's just a fact of rural living. Any trip to shop or for some types of exercise all involve the car but probably didn't capture that in my description.

Springy Turf

Is it mad to spend 22k on a discretionary / luxury purchase in the current climate? I think so. Particularly if you are renting.

Is it mad to buy a hybrid now? If you plan on driving it for 9-10 years, the residuals for any car will be negligible - so you should buy what you think will work for you for 10 years and not worry about whether or not Hybrids are "Dead"

Black_Knight

unkel wrote: »

Maybe consider not doing anything for a while until you know more about your future? Playing devil's advocate here and sorry if that's not being helpful, but spending 20k on a car that might not suit you in the near future is a serious commitment, that might turn out to be a serious mistake?

Exactly my thinking, as mentioned. Guy at work did pretty much what you're saying. Wanted electric, but renting, so opted for a demo corolla hybrid. His car had died, so he was in a bit of a rush. I tried talking him into buying an interim car until he buys a house in a few years, but no. Cashed in all his chips on the corolla, has a loan to repay, and a chunk of mortgage deposit gone. He's admitted now that he'll likely keep the car for many years (finally realised depreciation isn't fun when reselling a new car relatively quickly). Shame, his longest drive is about 220km, most drives are <10km.

Lantus

Hybrids have questionable economics given the price of the car is so much more. The new superb phev is 6 to 8k more than the equivalent ice model. Even assuming terrible efficiency in ice and perfect in hybrid the pay back is 5 plus years. 14 if you currently drive diesel.

That was before the drops in fuel prices.

If your car spend is comfortably in the range anyway then it makes no difference but never stretch to a hybrid or compromise in requirements just to save a mythical 1 to 1.5 l/100km.

spitonmedickie

Lantus wrote: »

Hybrids have questionable economics given the price of the car is so much more. The new superb phev is 6 to 8k more than the equivalent ice model. Even assuming terrible efficiency in ice and perfect in hybrid the pay back is 5 plus years. 14 if you currently drive diesel.

That was before the drops in fuel prices.

If your car spend is comfortably in the range anyway then it makes no difference but never stretch to a hybrid or compromise in requirements just to save a mythical 1 to 1.5 l/100km.

Interesting thanks, wouldn't be stretching myself to buy hybrid or relying on fuel savings to pay for it (!) but will need to do more sums on the payback. Remember doing them on petrol/diesel last time I was buying so need to dig out that notebook!

unkel

You will not have any material fuel savings in a hybrid compared to a diesel. For fuel savings you need a plug in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) or even better, a fully electric car.

kanuseeme

Lantus wrote: »

Hybrids have questionable economics given the price of the car is so much more. The new superb phev is 6 to 8k more than the equivalent ice model. Even assuming terrible efficiency in ice and perfect in hybrid the pay back is 5 plus years. 14 if you currently drive diesel.

That was before the drops in fuel prices.

If your car spend is comfortably in the range anyway then it makes no difference but never stretch to a hybrid or compromise in requirements just to save a mythical 1 to 1.5 l/100km.

It depends on the make/model take for example the kona, cheapest €21,495...KONA HEV €29,245.....KONA EV €40,630

The ioniq difference between phev and EV is only 150 euro.

Making your money back is not the best way to look at a purchase,

Say 2 skoda's one is ice other phev,just for arguments sake: both loose 20 000 euro after 5 years its running costs now, you say 5 years to make up the difference, I am going to ignore that and assume you save only a 1000 euro a year,

So one car cost 20 000 plus 6k to 8k running cost, the phev is 20 000 plus 1k to 3k, so its a saving of 5000 over 5 years.


There are more variables than that, like length of commutes etc. The popular choice a few years ago was diesel, at least now people have more of a choice than ever before.

unkel wrote: »

You will not have any material fuel savings in a hybrid compared to a diesel. For fuel savings you need a plug in hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) or even better, a fully electric car.

Agreed I would say both hybrid and diesel have nearly the same mpg, only difference is price of fuel, but I would go with hybrid as sales of hybrids are increasing by c.5% a year while diesel sales are dropping by that much,

Plug in or EV, there are more variables again but EV would give the best savings but it ties in with what lantus said is it worth stretching to get the 0L/100 km.

OP position is difficult no ability to charge on the street, so he is denied a phev or EV unless he moves to a house with a driveway.

iomusicdublin

I am about to buy a 2018 C350e estate, cheapest in Uk is 12,500stg. VRT is under 2k. That will keep me going until I go full electric in 2-3 years.

kanuseeme

my dad has the saloon version, he is very happy with it and it only does 20km-ish on battery

iomusicdublin

kanuseeme wrote: »

my dad has the saloon version, he is very happy with it and it only does 20km-ish on battery

20km


the dealer says it will do 60km on battery

iomusicdublin

iomusicdublin wrote: »

20km


the dealer says it will do 60km on battery

just realised the dealer is ful of sthi






some owners are saying 6 miles max on hybrid up to a max of 9 or 10 miles


any other cars I should at ???

The size of these PHEV batteries is getting out of control.
X5 announced with a 24kwh battery and new new RAV4 over 20kwh too.
Twingo and Smart are making do with smaller batteries.
Absolutely crazy

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

The size of these PHEV batteries is getting out of control.
X5 announced with a 24kwh battery and new new RAV4 over 20kwh too.
Twingo and Smart are making do with smaller batteries.
Absolutely crazy

Why do you think its crazy or out of control?


Makes sense to me. Upto now most PHEV's had tiny batteries which gave useless EV range. We need the batteries to get bigger so that you can cover your daily driving on EV and then flip to petrol for the occasional longer journey or if you need some extra power to overtake etc.

Most OEM's are faced with the choice of delivering 1 long range EV or ~5 PHEV's for the same amount of battery.

KCross

KCross wrote: »

Why do you think its crazy or out of control?


Makes sense to me. Upto now most PHEV's had tiny batteries which gave useless EV range. We need the batteries to get bigger so that you can cover your daily driving on EV and then flip to petrol for the occasional longer journey or if you need some extra power to overtake etc.

Most OEM's are faced with the choice of delivering 1 long range EV or ~5 PHEV's for the same amount of battery.

For the X5 they are only claiming a range of 30 miles in the US on pure electric power.

kanuseeme

Deleted User wrote: »

The size of these PHEV batteries is getting out of control.
X5 announced with a 24kwh battery and new new RAV4 over 20kwh too.
Twingo and Smart are making do with smaller batteries.
Absolutely crazy

They are making them so big so you can carry your toy cars around in the boot for the kids to play with.

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

For the X5 they are only claiming a range of 30 miles in the US on pure electric power.

So whats your point?

They need the larger batteries to make the EV range meaningful. A 10kWh battery in an X5 is pointless. Its a tank of a car.

kanuseeme

iomusicdublin wrote: »

just realised the dealer is ful of sthi






some owners are saying 6 miles max on hybrid up to a max of 9 or 10 miles


any other cars I should at ???

I am of the opinion that all dealers are like that.

spec for it on autotrader is 19 miles, so if you asked in more detail he will say 30 km to work and charge for the 30 km home.

my dad gets about 20 km, suits him work is 22 km, he charges and back home with little petrol use, he lives in town so he uses very little petrol in any one week.

In Mercedes you will have to buy new to get more range, https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/new/202003268760853?radius=1500&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Diesel%2FElectric%20Plug-in&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&postcode=cv92pz&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=MERCEDES-BENZ&sort=year-desc&page=1 A class.
others are coming with DC rapid charging also.

BMW have 330e 30 km i think, 530e old model 30 km new model 50 km-ish.

Then you have other makes, skoda seems good as well as the optima.

No, they are using the electric motor to get performance similar to a Model X
They've gone up from a 2 litre motor 4 cylinder to a 3 litre 6.
It is a genetically modified dinosaur stop gap.

kanuseeme

Don't get too worked up about phev's they will be around for a long time. They will have there day in the sun and when batteries become cheaper/better they will be extinct.

iomusicdublin

kanuseeme wrote: »

my dad gets about 20 km, suits him work is 22 km, he charges and back home with little petrol use, he lives in town so he uses very little petrol in any one week.

BMW have 330e 30 km i think, 530e old model 30 km new model 50 km-ish.

Thanks, how long does it take to charge?
I like the BMW but 23k for a 2018.

kanuseeme wrote: »

It depends on the make/model take for example the kona, cheapest €21,495...KONA HEV €29,245.....KONA EV €40,630

That is a large price difference.

kanuseeme

Not sure, he only has a granny charger, 3 hours? in autotrader click specification then performance it will give battery size/range/ charging times and 0-60 etc.

3 series
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202005069203099?radius=1500&year-from=2018&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&postcode=bs16qf&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=BMW&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

14.5 k pounds. 30 km range

2 series
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202004229031497?radius=1500&year-from=2018&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&postcode=bs16qf&model=2%20SERIES%20ACTIVE%20TOURER&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=BMW&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&page=1

18 k.... last year they were great value IMO..... same range..... my mother is getting one delivered in 7 days...

I don't know your commute or the exact mpg of those cars but they are regular hybrids after 30 km . A 40/50 km commute might give you 120 mpg , it will drop fast after that, but you would be surprised how far you could go before you get 60 mpg.
Then throw all that out if you got a heavy foot.

Lantus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The size of these PHEV batteries is getting out of control.
X5 announced with a 24kwh battery and new new RAV4 over 20kwh too.
Twingo and Smart are making do with smaller batteries.
Absolutely crazy

X5 and rav4 are huge cars by comparison..

iomusicdublin

Next year EV's will be cheaper to biuild than ICE.

KCross

iomusicdublin wrote: »

Next year EV's will be cheaper to biuild than ICE.

References?

Highly unlikely it will happen in 2021, might not even happen in 2025.

Casati

KCross wrote: »

References?

Highly unlikely it will happen in 2021, might not even happen in 2025.

Looks like every new EV gets dearer and dearer than expected despite the promises. With some grants starting to run out (eg Seai grant to companies) I can’t see them getting cheaper for a long while yet.

A lot more choice with PHEV’s though and many of them now more affordable (because of the grants). I’d expect to see a lot Kuga Phev’s sold for example as roughly same price as diesel. Tiguan GTE should do well too if under 50k

kanuseeme

Casati wrote: »

Looks like every new EV gets dearer and dearer than expected despite the promises. With some grants starting to run out (eg Seai grant to companies) I can’t see them getting cheaper for a long while yet.

A lot more choice with PHEV’s though and many of them now more affordable (because of the grants). I’d expect to see a lot Kuga Phev’s sold for example as roughly same price as diesel. Tiguan GTE should do well too if under 50k

People do not trust pure EV, take the phev kia niro and the e-niro which is only around 1500 euro more. 288 phev sold compared to 124 e-niro.

DrPhilG

kanuseeme wrote: »

People do not trust pure EV, take the phev kia niro and the e-niro which is only around 1500 euro more. 288 phev sold compared to 124 e-niro.

Maybe because the e-Niro has been near impossible to actually buy due to supply shortages?

Jofspring

kanuseeme wrote: »

People do not trust pure EV, take the phev kia niro and the e-niro which is only around 1500 euro more. 288 phev sold compared to 124 e-niro.

Is there only a 1500 difference? Pretty sure I saw a pricelist with the Niro PHEV around 33k but the eNiro is closer to 39k. That's 6k difference.

DrPhilG

Jofspring wrote: »

Is there only a 1500 difference? Pretty sure I saw a pricelist with the Niro PHEV around 33k but the eNiro is closer to 39k. That's 6k difference.

The e-Niro is €41k.

kanuseeme

New Niro PHEV undercuts Toyota Prius PHEV.
THE NEW KIA Niro PHEV is the plug-in version of the original Niro hybrid, Kia's five-seat crossover. Prices for the plug-in Niro start at €35,995, which includes €2,500 VRT reduction.Jan 29, 2018

I see now it is dated jan 2018

Pricing for the mid-range Kia e-Niro starts at €33,495. Spending an additional €4,000 gains the long-range e-Niro. Featuring a higher capacity 64kWh battery, the driving range increases to a claimed 455 kilometres under WLTP testing.Jun 18, 2019

Could well be 41 000, that is the prices I followed. I learned my lesson from quick google searches.

The registration figures are correct from https://stats.beepbeep.ie/

DrPhilG

kanuseeme wrote: »

Pricing for the mid-range Kia e-Niro starts at €33,495. Spending an additional €4,000 gains the long-range e-Niro.

The small battery e-Niro has never been available here as far as I know apart from maybe a few demo models.

The first edition 64kWh e-Niro was about €39k, the second edition €40,995.

I just priced it 2 weeks ago.

kanuseeme

DrPhilG wrote: »

The small battery e-Niro has never been available here as far as I know apart from maybe a few demo models.

The first edition 64kWh e-Niro was about €39k, the second edition €40,995.

I just priced it 2 weeks ago.

I priced the e-Niro as 33.5k + 4 K, I was trying to make a point that some EV are not so badly priced compared to the other fuel types in the same model, but for some people its better to burn some petrol than be stuck charging.

As I have only one car,I could not justify buying a EV, on the rare occasions that I would have to charge, for example coming home from Dublin airport in January at 1 am and I stopped at coynes cross to get some petrol, I looked over at the rapid and thanked God I did not have to charge, it was windy and freezing cold rain, my 2 kids and a pregnant wife would never forgive me.

ELM327

kanuseeme wrote: »

I priced the e-Niro as 33.5k + 4 K, I was trying to make a point that some EV are not so badly priced compared to the other fuel types in the same model, but for some people its better to burn some petrol than be stuck charging.

As I have only one car,I could not justify buying a EV, on the rare occasions that I would have to charge, for example coming home from Dublin airport in January at 1 am and I stopped at coynes cross to get some petrol, I looked over at the rapid and thanked God I did not have to charge, it was windy and freezing cold rain, my 2 kids and a pregnant wife would never forgive me.

Sure then just buy a petrol car. Much cheaper.

iomusicdublin

iomusicdublin wrote: »

.........



That is a large price difference.

Kona EV is a looney price, €10k more you're in a Tesla Model 3.
A Kona is a 23k ICE POS in standard guise.

ELM327

For sure Augeo +1