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DCC/NTA COVID-19 Interim Mobility Plan 'Enabling the City to Return to Work'

  • 05-06-2020 7:05pm
    #1
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    This probably requires a thread of its own since there's going to be so many different elements to it and will probably influence commuting in Dublin in the short term.

    u98QS1ol.jpg
    https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/dublin-mobility-plan/

    Targets and estimates based on the Canal Cordon Count:
    XsTBTeF.jpg
    Assumes a reduction in total number of people commuting to the city centre, car capacity limited by congestion and shorter pedestrian wait times and automated crossings implemented to avoid crowding, public transport capacity constrained by physical distancing, aiming to double the number of people walking and triple the number of people cycling.

    Some highlights:

    Pedestrian areas: Wider footpaths, bus stops moved to more spacious streets to avoid crowding, temporary build out bus stops to be trialled

    Bike lanes:
    Temporary protected bike lanes at the Grand Canal, Pearse Street contraflow, Gardiner Street etc. and most of the radial routes near the city centre area.

    Bus gate: Rathmines and Westland Row (potentially)

    College Green: Services to be diverted gradually. Phased introduction of pedestrianisation and cycle route. Contraflow bus lane on Winetavern Street.

    Some of the things in it have already started. Some will start in the coming weeks. The measures in the report are to be delivered in phases over 6-12 months.


Comments

  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    A very significant pedestrianisation trial has been announced. South William Street, Anne Street South, Drury Street, Duke Street, Dame Court.

    https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1278696703974150144?s=20


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Peregrine wrote: »
    A very significant pedestrianisation trial has been announced. South William Street, Anne Street South, Drury Street, Duke Street, Dame Court.

    https://twitter.com/Pidge/status/1278696703974150144?s=20

    Great news. Long overdue.

    I have a friend who use to have a shop on South William St. DCC one long weekend did a trial pedestrianisation of the street. It was a massive success, sales went up 4 fold those days!

    Remember when you hear that "traders" association complain, that is just the big car park owners. They don't represent the majority of normal business at all. Pretty much every shop who doesn't own a car park, loves pedestrianisation and knows it has a great impact on their business.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    bk wrote: »
    Great news. Long overdue.

    I have a friend who use to have a shop on South William St. DCC one long weekend did a trial pedestrianisation of the street. It was a massive success, sales went up 4 fold those days!

    Remember when you hear that "traders" association complain, that is just the big car park owners. They don't represent the majority of normal business at all. Pretty much every shop who doesn't own a car park, loves pedestrianisation and knows it has a great impact on their business.

    The Dublin City Centre "Traders" Alliance (which itself is a subsidiary of a property development company) have been very quiet for two months or so. Even Dublin Town which used to be the voice of the poor car parks before DCCTA are now calling for increased permanent pedestrianisation. Guiney did an interview for The Times Ireland a few weeks back where he talked about how the opinions of Dublin Town members changed since they started and how most are in favour of pedestrianisation now.

    They did a survey of South William Street businesses and found that 75% were in favour.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Peregrine wrote: »
    The Dublin City Centre "Traders" Alliance (which itself is a subsidiary of a property development company) have been very quiet for two months or so. Even Dublin Town which used to be the voice of the poor car parks before DCCTA are now calling for increased permanent pedestrianisation. Guiney did an interview for The Times Ireland a few weeks back where he talked about how the opinions of Dublin Town members changed since they started and how most are in favour of pedestrianisation now.

    They did a survey of South William Street businesses and found that 75% were in favour.

    That is very interesting. What do you think caused the change of heart? I mean amongst the developers and car park owners, small traders have always been in favour.

    I remember the DCCTA rep on just over a month ago clearly complaining about the changes coming in. Have they changed their minds since?!


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    bk wrote: »
    That is very interesting. What do you think caused the change of heart? I mean amongst the developers and car park owners, small traders have always been in favour.

    I remember the DCCTA rep on just over a month ago clearly complaining about the changes coming in. Have they changed their minds since?!

    The car park owners didn't really change their mind. They just lost control of Dublin Town. Dublin City Centre "Traders" Alliance was set up after both the Dublin Chamber of Commerce and Dublin Town came out in support of the College Green Plaza. The car parks had a legitimate voice representing small businesses through Dublin Town and they lost it. DCCTA's first appearance was during the CG Plaza consultation. Dublin Town has only gotten more progressive since.

    Ah, yeah, in early May when the initial reports came out and work on the interim Liffey Cycle Route started. They threatened to sue that time too IIRC. But they didn't even respond to the COVID mobility report in June despite objecting to the initial changes. They're still around but I would have expected something from them given what was in the report. Now, this pedestrianisation proposal maintains access to car parks but it severely restricts movements and is clearly death knell. If they're still there, they should come out fighting again now.

    Good article from 2016 about them: https://www.dublininquirer.com/2016/08/24/david-don-t-let-this-lobby-group-kill-the-college-green-plan


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 20,990 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    Ah, that makes a lot more sense. Glad to hear they have lost control of DT and Chamber of Commerce. At least most real retailers have a real voice now. DCCTA is far more obvious now. Though they definitely get more media attention then they should and DT and Chamber of Commerce need to come out more to fight them in the media.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    Hopefully this trial will prove what a benefit pedestrianisation can be. Definitive proof should cut the legs out from under the nay-sayers who say people wont go into the city centre unless they can park within 50m of their destination.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    Dublin City Council have started their public consultation on expanding the 30k zones to include basically all of Dublin City. Personally, I'm disappointed that the Howth Rd is staying at 50k, it just seems very strange. Hopefully this is pushed out and we get a much more liveable city as a result.

    You can have your say here


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 4,816 Mod ✭✭✭✭ G_R


    https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/feedback-on-grafton-street-area-pedestrianisation/

    You can give feedback on the pedestrianisation here. The more replies the better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,007 ✭✭✭ Ben D Bus


    G_R wrote: »
    https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/feedback-on-grafton-street-area-pedestrianisation/

    You can give feedback on the pedestrianisation here. The more replies the better.

    Responded positively.

    The August dates in that survey are all wrong!


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  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    Work on a 3.5km cycle route on Griffith Avenue will start next week (at Griffith Avenue Extension).

    Plans for a cycle route on Strand Road will also be published next week.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    Grafton Street area pedestrianisation trial extended by two weekends.

    Pigeon House Road filtered permeability trial (like Grangegorman) to start on Sunday.

    Being designed right now:
    Contra flow cycle lane on Parnell Square East and Werburgh Street
    Pedestrian crossings at Mountjoy Square/Gardiner Street junction
    Segregated cycle lanes on Constitution Hill


  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭ p_haugh


    Contra-flow cycle track is also going to be installed along Griffith Avenue, between Boghall Road and Malahide Road. That road is practically as wide as a motorway so glad they're finally doing something about it!
    https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1294255297045975041?s=19


  • Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭ p_haugh


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Work on a 3.5km cycle route on Griffith Avenue will start next week (at Griffith Avenue Extension).

    Plans for a cycle route on Strand Road will also be published next week.

    Apologies, didn't see this until after I posted mine


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,781 ✭✭✭ Carawaystick


    Peregrine wrote: »

    Pigeon House Road filtered permeability trial (like Grangegorman) to start on Sunday.

    Is there a plan to put something on Sean Moore road to link the Pigeon house road and strand road? or are the corpo just doing scattered unlinked and therefore useless schemes?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    Official DCC consultation on the Strand Road cycleway announced today. Some serious opposition to this. Sean Moore Road to city centre and Merrion Gates to Booterstown in the works (if this section goes ahead).
    https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/strand-road-trial-cycle-route/

    Griffith Avenue cycle route has started construction (at Griffith Avenue Extension).

    DCC's €12m allocation in today's July Stimulus package (all to be finished by November):
    - A lot of extended bus stops and footpaths (1000 metres in length).
    - 80 secure bike parking spaces in a multi-storey on the Northside (probably Jervis)
    - Several new pedestrian crossings
    - Resurfacing of streets in the Grafton Street area such as South William Street and Drury Street.
    - Resurfacing of roads around the city.
    - Repairing footpaths around the city
    - Concrete kerb cycle lanes (like Griffith Avenue) for Inns Quay, Ormond Quay (currently those plastic construction barriers) and Constitution Hill (to be resurfaced).
    - A **** tonne of bollards and wands
    - Works at Grangegorman Road to improve the filtered permeability trial (extended footpaths, more planters etc.) pending extension of the trial.

    More here: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/nta-allocates-e55m-to-councils-for-cycling-and-walking-projects-under-july-jobs-stimulus-plan/


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Official DCC consultation on the Strand Road cycleway announced today. Some serious opposition to this.

    I'm seeing an awful lot of "I pay my road tax, cyclists don't, etc" online already.
    Peregrine wrote: »
    - 80 secure bike parking spaces in a multi-storey on the Northside (probably Jervis)

    One of the reasons that Drury St is so good is that it's on the ground floor, Jervis would be a nightmare with having to go all the way up the ramp. Same with most of them really, ILAC is the same. The only one I think might be as good would be the Spire Q-Park on Marlborough St
    Peregrine wrote: »
    - Resurfacing of streets in the Grafton Street area such as South William Street and Drury Street.

    At a guess, it looks like DCC have decided that the recent pedestrianisation trials have been a total success, and are just proceeding with remaking the public realm as a pedestrian orientated area.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    CatInABox wrote: »
    One of the reasons that Drury St is so good is that it's on the ground floor, Jervis would be a nightmare with having to go all the way up the ramp. Same with most of them really, ILAC is the same. The only one I think might be as good would be the Spire Q-Park on Marlborough St



    At a guess, it looks like DCC have decided that the recent pedestrianisation trials have been a total success, and are just proceeding with remaking the public realm as a pedestrian orientated area.

    Sorry, not the one at the Jervis Centre. The one south of Abbey Street. Jervis Street, I think it's called. You're right about the ramps, the Jervis Centre and Ilac would be a nightmare.

    Yeah but it would be tarmac as a temporary measure though. The streets are falling apart and are actually quite dangerous. Proper repaving would take years and would need planning permission. Even a fresh layer of tarmac would go a long way if the streets are pedestrianised.
    CatInABox wrote: »
    I'm seeing an awful lot of "I pay my road tax, cyclists don't, etc" online already.

    Share the consultation with others so!


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,198 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Sorry, not the one at the Jervis Centre. The one south of Abbey Street. Jervis Street, I think it's called. You're right about the ramps, the Jervis Centre and Ilac would be a nightmare.


    Huh, I've gone past that countless times, and while I knew that it's a car park, it just never entered my head as somewhere I could park. Yes, that one would work as a Cycle park as well.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,346 ✭✭✭✭ loyatemu


    I've no issue with Strand Rd being made one-way, but it does seem to be an invitation to opposition to the plan. There's a massive amount of space to the east of the roadway, is it not possible to put the cycleway there? Or convert the very wide footpath to cycleway and direct pedestrians onto the path along the sea; or put an additional footpath on the seaward side of the wall. The one-way proposal seems to greatly increase the chances that the cycleway won't happen at all.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 918 ✭✭✭ riddlinrussell


    Peregrine wrote: »


    Added most of this that I could figure out locations for to the map, anywhere that 'protected' was mentioned.

    I guarantee I am missing a plethora of newly protected routes in all the cities, so any help would be hugely appreciated with pointing them out.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    loyatemu wrote: »
    I've no issue with Strand Rd being made one-way, but it does seem to be an invitation to opposition to the plan. There's a massive amount of space to the east of the roadway, is it not possible to put the cycleway there? Or convert the very wide footpath to cycleway and direct pedestrians onto the path along the sea; or put an additional footpath on the seaward side of the wall. The one-way proposal seems to greatly increase the chances that the cycleway won't happen at all.

    Only half of the road has a promenade. There will have to be boardwalks built along the edge for the other half of the road to facilitate two-way traffic. That's what they've been trying to do there for the last 20 years. There were plans drawn up and abandoned. It still resulted in a myriad of objections and extremely high costs. It's a protected area after all. The Merrion Gates bridge itself was going to cost €48 million (Edit: see below) and that was just the start.

    If we decide to go back to that plan today, without any objections, it would take five years to finish. This could start in three weeks and be in place by the end of October at a cost of €250,000.

    Yes it will result in objections but the difference in cost and time would be stark. And, after a trial, more residents may come around.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 17,085 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Sam Russell


    Peregrine wrote: »
    Only half of the road has a promenade. There will have to be boardwalks built along the edge for the other half of the road to facilitate two-way traffic. That's what they've been trying to do there for the last 20 years. There were plans drawn up and abandoned. It still resulted in a myriad of objections and extremely high costs. It's a protected area after all. The Merrion Gates bridge itself was going to cost €48 million and that was just the start.

    If we decide to go back to that plan today, without any objections, it would take five years to finish. This could start in three weeks and be in place by the end of October at a cost of €250,000.

    Yes it will result in objections but the difference in cost and time would be stark. And, after a trial, more residents may come around.

    I think the €48 million was for a lot more than the bridge.

    'Ambitious' plans for Dublin 4 could see the closure of the Merrion Gates railway crossing
    Strand Road could be turned into a cul-de-sac.
    A PLAN TO close the Merrion Gates railway crossing is among the major proposals that planners hope will reduce traffic in south Dublin.

    The National Transport Authority (NTA) has unveiled details of a planned overhaul of the transport situation along the Sandymount and Merrion to Blackrock corridor.

    The area being looked at is the coastal area in Dublin 4 between Irishtown and Blackrock with more space for cyclists also a vital part of the plan.

    The cost of the entire project is estimated at between €40-48 million.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭ Pete_Cavan


    If opposition means that two-way traffic has to be maintained, this should still be possible while providing the cycle lane. Where there is promenade, as already said, convert footpath to cycleway and direct pedestrians onto the path along the sea. The northern part of Strand Road without a promenade would need the same job as was done in Clontarf between the Wooden Bridge and Causeway Bridge. That job cost €4,285,944 for approx 2km in an equally environmentally sensitive area and also included a large dia. trunk watermain. At Strand Road, it is only one third in length and likely without the watermain, should cost approx. €1.5m.

    For the last section before the Merrion Gates, I wonder could a single traffic lane taking traffic in both directions work, with the remainder of the road space becoming cycle lanes. There would need to be a set of traffic lights on Strand Road where the houses between the road and the sea start, to control south bound traffic. North bound is controlled from the existing lights on Merrion Road. It would be complex signalling and would obviously have to be integrated with the train gates as well, timed so either set of traffic can continue across the tracks with the gates up. The biggest problem is cars coming out of houses along there, they would have to wait and trail along behind a car going in the direction they want to go. A pedestrian/cyclist underpass under the tracks would allow them constant access. It would reduce traffic through-put across Merrion Gates but isn't reducing traffic and promoting active travel the main point here. It could be sold to locals as a way to reduce through traffic while still allowing them access as they always had.


  • Registered Users Posts: 209 ✭✭ Heartbreak Hank


    Is it just me or does the consultation seem to come from an objector's point of view?
    "1 Please share any specific concerns you have in relation to any aspects of the proposal."

    I support the project and I wasn't sure where I was to express that.


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    South William Street, Drury Street etc. pedestrianisation trial will conclude this weekend. Report to be published soon.

    Parnell Square East and Werburgh Street contraflow cycle lane plans will be published next week.

    Design & consultation for a small section of Griffith Avenue cycle route: https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/griffith-avenue-protected-cycle-track/


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,169 ✭✭✭ cgcsb


    The overdue cycling schemes: Amien Street to Fairview and Fitzwilliam street parking protected cycle lane, is there any progress on these?


  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,305 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Peregrine


    cgcsb wrote: »
    The overdue cycling schemes: Amien Street to Fairview and Fitzwilliam street parking protected cycle lane, is there any progress on these?

    Clontarf to City Centre went to tender in August or, if not, will very soon. Construction to start late this year/early next year.

    Fitzwilliam is supposed to go to tender at the end of 2020. That was supposed to be an easy win that got bogged down in delays. They said an interim scheme would be implemented in Q3 but it hasn't happened yet.

    Werburgh Street/Castle Street cycle route consultation: https://consultation.dublincity.ie/traffic-and-transport/werburgh-street-cycle-route-phase-1/
    This will provide an alternative route from Patrick Street to Dame Street. It's completely disjointed at the start but this will be fixed in phase 2 which will require civil works.


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