People espousing sustainability virtues

completedit

Buying locally while driving a range rover.

Criticizing fast fashion while taking 5 flights a year

Buying a Tesla when public transport is available

I have no problem with people doing the above but I am noticing more and more, hypocrites being very vocal about the need to be sustainable and to think of the 'environment' My mind immediately wanders to the George Carlin standup, it just reeks of human arrogance. The environment is absolutely fine and will be fine long after we're gone. Most of these same people do not give one iota about people in the developing world who will actually suffer from environmental degradation, they care about the social capital that comes about from being environmentally and sustainably aware.

Do you think it's a problem? Perhaps the end result is reduced demand on the earths resources, so even if it is as a result of self-interest, it will lead to positive outcomes.

Revit Man

Yeah, all that happens.

I think the biggest recent one I can think of is the amount of school going teens complaining about the environment and saving our planet and all of that... while being some of the biggest proponents of disposable culture there are, buying fast fashion items each time they are going out - i.e., Penneys and the like. Or go mad about plastic straws, but then get a lift to school in cases where they could walk etc.

Allinall

At least they walk home from one of their trips abroad.

completedit

Allinall wrote: »

At least they walk home from one of their trips abroad.

Hahaha, good spot.

Thelonious Monk

I think they're a bit like those people who are vegans and go around telling everyone so. I've never met one of those people.
Any time there's a discussion on green matters someone will always say THEY DRIVE THEIR KIDS TO SCHOOL IN RANGE ROVERS and everyone agrees with them. I'm just not sure what this is based on.
Anyway enjoy the thread repeating the same tropes.

completedit

I don't know why it annoys me. I think it's because being environmentally aware has become so mainstream and as a way to socially flex on others nowadays, rather than any sort of real care for humanity. Because like George says, that's ultimately what looking after the environment serves to benefit-us.

topper75

completedit wrote: »

...as a way to socially flex on others nowadays, rather than any sort of real care for humanity...

Nailed it. People espouse all sorts of stuff. Sadly we just have to work to filter the nonsense. The vast majority of celebrity opinions can be ignored for starters.

Kylta

I think there are a lot of very fickle people going about, if climate change is the thing at the moment people support it, just cause its the craze at the moment. Then somebody will say something different and loads jump ship. I often wonder do people agree with others for an easy life or not to partake in confrontation? And to be honest there are people out there couldn't care less about anything only what's the fashion at the moment. When greta (climate change person) had the schools come and march for climate change. Some pupils who were on the march wouldn't walk to school, they had the mothers bring them to school in big gas guzzlers, and the school was only around the corner. No, I think people support whats in fashion at the moment and not there principles

El_Duderino 09

It's simple really. People can see a what needs to.change and can give credit to those who have changes. But change takes time. So someone might have grown up thinking that having a range rover was a really good thing but in the meantime also realised that the environment is important. So they have two beliefs that are somewhat in conflict and they don't behave perfectly rationally.

I really don't need other people to be perfect. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation. I think some people use hypocrisy in others as a reason not to improve themselves.

completedit

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's simple really. People can see a what needs to.change and can give credit to those who have changes. But change takes time. So someone might have grown up thinking that having a range rover was a really good thing but in the meantime also realised that the environment is important. So they have two beliefs that are somewhat in conflict and they don't behave perfectly rationally.

I really don't need other people to be perfect. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation. I think some people use hypocrisy in others as a reason not to improve themselves.

I like that. Good point. I just have one friend who is very patronizing about the whole environment stuff. It's that kind of I'll eat vegan and shop sustainability and virtue signal about that, but don't mention any of my discrepancies like multiple flights, driving from A to B.

MrMusician18

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

It's simple really. People can see a what needs to.change and can give credit to those who have changes. But change takes time. So someone might have grown up thinking that having a range rover was a really good thing but in the meantime also realised that the environment is important. So they have two beliefs that are somewhat in conflict and they don't behave perfectly rationally.

I really don't need other people to be perfect. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation. I think some people use hypocrisy in others as a reason not to improve themselves.

When it comes to environmental activism and action, it is possible to live as you espouse generally - even as a young person. Yes, you might not be able to choose what car your parents drive but there are things in your control.

While I suspect that the people who really believe in the cause don't engage in such behavior, but the way our local playground and park has been trashed with rubbish over the course of the covid crisis by teenagers has been revealing. The climate activism in my opinion was something a lot of young people got swept up in, without really thinking about what it meant.

But it was ever thus: who remembers debt relief?

El_Duderino 09

completedit wrote: »

I like that. Good point. I just have one friend who is very patronizing about the whole environment stuff. It's that kind of I'll eat vegan and shop sustainability and virtue signal about that, but don't mention any of my discrepancies like multiple flights, driving from A to B.

Yeah I love going places too. It's a real conflict in my mind that I need to cut down the flights. I've a friend who will only take one flight a year as a treat to himself. I asked if he was interested in coming somewhere with us and he said he couldn't because he already had his flight for the year. I thought that was ridiculous but actually it's just putting his money where his mouth is.

It's taken me longer to get on board with not flying as much. I really love a summer holiday and a winter break if I can afford it. It's a hypocrisy on my part to support environmental issues but also want to fly for a summer holiday. My hypocrisy doesn't take from the facts about the need to act to help the environment.

People very often take time to act in accordance witth heir own beliefs. I know I do.

KiKi III

The problem is expecting perfection from people who advocate a certain ideology.

If people are using a keepcup and separating their rubbish but they still go on foreign holidays, that’s still better than nothing.

If they do meat-free Mondays and pay to plant trees to offset their carbon footprint but they order off ASOS that’s better than nothing.

You don’t need to be a vegan who only shops locally, always buys vintage and grows their own veg to express concerns about sustainability.

It’s not hypocritical just because you’re not perfect.

MrMusician18

KiKi III wrote: »

The problem is expecting perfection from people who advocate a certain ideology.

If people are using a keepcup and separating their rubbish but they still go on foreign holidays, that’s still better than nothing.

If they do meat-free Mondays and pay to plant trees to offset their carbon footprint but they order off ASOS that’s better than nothing.

You don’t need to be a vegan who only shops locally, always buys vintage and grows their own veg to express concerns about sustainability.

It’s not hypocritical just because you’re not perfect.

The above would be fine if those that were taking those personal actions were not campaigning for changes in policy in sectors which they will be relatively uneffected by.


So I don't think it's about wanting perfection, but the aims. It's very easy for people to make demands of change from others before asking yourself to make sacrifices. Therefore it's obviously going to get people's backs up when a privileged group to demand policy action say targeting farmers but not call for policy change for the things that are important to them - like tourism/city breaks. Often these carbon intensive pursuits they enjoy are out of the reach of those they are targeting too.

completedit

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The above would be fine if those that were taking those personal actions were not campaigning for changes in policy in sectors which they will be relatively uneffected by.


So I don't think it's about wanting perfection, but the aims. It's very easy for people to make demands of change from others before asking yourself to make sacrifices. Therefore it's obviously going to get people's backs up when a privileged group to demand policy action say targeting farmers but not call for policy change for the things that are important to them - like tourism/city breaks. Often these carbon intensive pursuits they enjoy are out of the reach of those they are targeting too.

This is exactly it. And it's so in plain sight that it is very irritating to have someone wax lyrical about eating meat and chastise others, but not look at themselves and their actions. It's like I've chosen my sacrifice and everyone must follow my sacrifice. I decide that city breaks are fine but fast fashion/meat consumption must be eradicated.

Sunny Disposition

Pains in the hole attach themselves to causes after it becomes clear they are irrefutable, it was feminism 40 years ago, environmentalism now. At times the right on types will join the committed protestors against US use of Shannon. They also joined in for the last few weeks of the marriage equality campaign.
The real heroes are the ones who keep the work going when the causes aren’t popular.
Prince Harry of the UK is a good example of a pain in the hole, pontificating about global warming from a position of unique privilege while taking non commercial flights around the world.

completedit

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Pains in the hole attach themselves to causes after it becomes clear they are irrefutable, it was feminism 40 years ago, environmentalism now. At times the right on types will join the committee protestors against US use of Shannon. They also joined in for the last few weeks of the marriage equality campaign.
The real heroes are the ones who keep the work going when the causes aren’t popular.
Prince Harry of the UK is a good example of a pain in the hole, pontificating about global warming from a position of unique privilege while taking non commercial flights around the world.

Don't forget DiCaprio. So true. I like that bit about those who fight the good fight when nobody cares, when it has no value beyond the actual battle in and of itself. Harry has a life devoid of toil and meaning so just latches on to some causes to occupy his mind and his life. It's a hobby. Doesn't make him a bad guy, and maybe better than nothing but nevertheless, it is what it is.

*There's the argument that Di Caprio sees the big picture and I don't think he pontificates or virtue signals. The reality is change comes from a much bigger place than the individual.

El_Duderino 09

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Pains in the hole attach themselves to causes after it becomes clear they are irrefutable, it was feminism 40 years ago, environmentalism now. At times the right on types will join the committed protestors against US use of Shannon. They also joined in for the last few weeks of the marriage equality campaign.
The real heroes are the ones who keep the work going when the causes aren’t popular.
Prince Harry of the UK is a good example of a pain in the hole, pontificating about global warming from a position of unique privilege while taking non commercial flights around the world.

That's an argument for the Labour Party. They were for all the modern issues when they weren't cool. They were ridiculed them as a bunch of fags for being pro gay rights for example. They don't benefit because by they time the issues become mainstream all the parties jump on board a week before the referendum and pretend they were always on board.

I don't have any problem with the late comers. Better they convert late than never.