Dealing with a hijacked airliner in Irish airspace?

mr_fegelien

What is the protocol that air traffic controllers follow once they discover an aircraft has been taken over by hijackers or a suicidal pilot (Germanwings) over Irish airspace?

AFAIK, this country doesn't have fighter jets to shoot down the planes like many other Western nations. Would this mean that a hijacker would be able to fly undisturbed into Dublin and crash the plane?

I did read that the Irish government has a treaty with the British that allows them to deploy F-16's in the event of a hijacking here and they have authority to shoot it down? How long would that realistically take from the point of the air traffic controller being aware of the hijacking to the point of the British military deploying the jets?

troyzer

The RAF would likely be able to scramble Typhoons and F-35s and get them into position over Ireland in less than 20 minutes.

The RAF don't operate F-16s.

jonnybigwallet

Good answer!

Signore Fancy Pants

Theoretically the Air Corps PC9's have the capability to engage commercial airliners.

A couple of rockets and 250 rounds of .5 ammunition from 2 guns.

afatbollix

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Theoretically the Air Corps PC9's have the capability to engage commercial airliners.

A couple of rockets and 250 rounds of .5 ammunition from 2 guns.

But only 9-5 and make sure they don't do it around lunchtime.



Same thing as what happens when the Russians send down a plane at the moment the RAF deploy and track it.

troyzer

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Theoretically the Air Corps PC9's have the capability to engage commercial airliners.

A couple of rockets and 250 rounds of .5 ammunition from 2 guns.

PC-9s are nowhere near as fast as a commercial airliner.

The whole point of interceptor is that it's really, really fast. Not slower than its target.

Signore Fancy Pants

troyzer wrote: »

PC-9s are nowhere near as fast as a commercial airliner.

The whole point of interceptor is that it's really, really fast. Not slower than its target.

Im aware of that...hence the qualifier of "theoretically". We obviously have no mid air intercept capability.

However, an A320 approach/take off speed is max 200knots...apparently. A PC9 max speed is 320knots...apparently.

In some strange scenario, a PC9 could theoretically engage a commercial airliner. Is it a realistic viable option? Fcuk no.

Anyway, it's only a "mr_f" wind up thread.

We have some really really long sticks we could put up in the air and try to knock it out the sky! Could sellotape a grenade to the top of it too.

Signore Fancy Pants

afatbollix wrote: »

But only 9-5 and make sure they don't do it around lunchtime.



Same thing as what happens when the Russians send down a plane at the moment the RAF deploy and track it.

09:30 -16:30

Dont be trying to get the lads in early and home late!

Gatling

troyzer wrote: »

PC-9s are nowhere near as fast as a commercial airliner.

The whole point of interceptor is that it's really, really fast. Not slower than its target.

True to a degree wouldn't need to be as fast just capable of climbing to it's altitude and sitting behind it , while unguided rockets could bring down a large aircraft no guarantee of any kind of accuracy ,
.50 machine guns have a several kilometer effective range if needed more than enough to take an airliner down .


As other's have already mentioned the RAF typhoons would have the job done and be back sitting down for dinner by the time our defence forces could react in a reasonable manner ,
But if we did have an airliner hijacked heading towards a major city centre would the government have the testicles to allow a military engagement to prevent an attack similar to 9/11

roadmaster

It would be virtually impossible to shoot down an airliner that was hijacked. You would need to have fighters in the air or knowledge that it had happened 1000km of the coast. The RAF would not launch and be here in time in normal circumstances besides no British PM would give an order to shoot down an aircraft over Ireland especially a populated area as it's not there responsiblty and they would not be willing to take the flack of thousands of dead civilians on the ground

Larbre34

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What is the protocol that air traffic controllers follow once they discover an aircraft has been taken over by hijackers or a suicidal pilot (Germanwings) over Irish airspace?

AFAIK, this country doesn't have fighter jets to shoot down the planes like many other Western nations. Would this mean that a hijacker would be able to fly undisturbed into Dublin and crash the plane?

I did read that the Irish government has a treaty with the British that allows them to deploy F-16's in the event of a hijacking here and they have authority to shoot it down? How long would that realistically take from the point of the air traffic controller being aware of the hijacking to the point of the British military deploying the jets?

I doubt anyone here could tell you the protocol for such an eventuality, if one exists.

The PC9 couldn't intercept anything other than propeller driven commercials. And even then it would want to be on a favourable trajectory.

Doing the maths, it would take an RAF Typhoon F2 from Lossiemouth, a minimum 25 minutes from the alert to reach, say, the Mayo Atlantic coast and thats assuming clearance to violate supersonic restrictions over land (which the QRA flights often do), so it would depend on the relative position of any compromised aircraft as to whether the option of shooting it down would even arise.

The same is true, by the way, for any of the European west coast. Yes the various NATO airforces have alert squadrons, but their primary mission is the interception of Russian recon flights, relatively slow moving and distinguishable from commercial traffic early in their flight. Seeing as you use it as an example, the Germanwings tragedy was impacted in no way by the QRA presence in the alpine countries.

Psychlops

afatbollix wrote: »

But only 9-5 and make sure they don't do it around lunchtime.

Just like the Swiss Air Force, Office hours only 7 every weekend off too.

Psychlops

Larbre34 wrote: »

I doubt anyone here could tell you the protocol for such an eventuality, if one exists.

The PC9 couldn't intercept anything other than propeller driven commercials. And even then it would want to be on a favourable trajectory.

PC9M's have intercepted the learjet 45, they even put up a video about it.

kippy

mr_fegelien wrote: »

What is the protocol that air traffic controllers follow once they discover an aircraft has been taken over by hijackers or a suicidal pilot (Germanwings) over Irish airspace?

AFAIK, this country doesn't have fighter jets to shoot down the planes like many other Western nations. Would this mean that a hijacker would be able to fly undisturbed into Dublin and crash the plane?

I did read that the Irish government has a treaty with the British that allows them to deploy F-16's in the event of a hijacking here and they have authority to shoot it down? How long would that realistically take from the point of the air traffic controller being aware of the hijacking to the point of the British military deploying the jets?

There are far bigger and more likely scenarios to be concerned about to be frank about it.
I'd be more concerned about the lack of decent SAR resources.

roadmaster

kippy wrote: »

There are far bigger and more likely scenarios to be concerned about to be frank about it.
I'd be more concerned about the lack of decent SAR resources.

Apart from no dedicated Top Cover aircraft I think we are very good in SAR

kippy

roadmaster wrote: »

Apart from no dedicated Top Cover aircraft I think we are very good in SAR

So in terms of value for money what's the better goal?

punchdrunk

PC-9’s would need to be sitting bombed up, on the ramp ready to go- which is never the case.

You’d have to fit the rails, then fit the pods, then fetch the munitions from the armoury and load them, then do safety checks and finally you’re good to go!

So it’s 100% in the hands of the UK

punchdrunk

kippy wrote: »

So in terms of value for money what's the better goal?

Keeping the C-235’s going as SAR top cover aircraft (survivor location, life raft droppers, coms relay) would be an excellent idea

They could also perform general transport duties with some of the mission equipment removed

Signore Fancy Pants

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Theoretically the Air Corps PC9's have the capability to engage commercial airliners.

A couple of rockets and 250 rounds of .5 ammunition from 2 guns.

Best give us a few days notice to put the pods in and calibrate them first