Permissions

Emmersonn

Is this a new development and if so what are your thoughts. parts of a letter received from our club secretary.
https://postimg.cc/R3yPN7yn

The pigeon man

Emmersonn wrote: »

Is this a new development and if so what are your thoughts. parts of a letter received from our club secretary.
https://postimg.cc/R3yPN7yn

The super sounds like a power hungry tyrant.

I'd say let him revoke every license of the members in the club, appeal and everyone one win. It would also make the news and he'd be found out to be an idiot.

This would probably stop him making up the law. If he wanted to legislate he should have been a member of the Oireachtas.

Kiltris

If there has been no issue during the last year with permissions or complaints from local land owners I can't see why the super would want this done.

He is effectively making up his own law otherwise, hard to see it justified.

clivej

Maybe reply to his letter with.............

It is not the intention of the club to submit to these demands.
Inform him he is acting outside of the law.
And to make a District/High court appointment if he revokes any of your members Licenses.

And wait for a reply.

LONG DRAG

clivej wrote: »

Maybe reply to his letter with.............

It is not the intention of the club to submit to these demands.
Inform him he is acting outside of the law.
And to make a District/High court appointment if he revokes any of your members Licenses.

And wait for a reply.

Are you affiliated to your county ,ie NARGC members, if so make contact asap, they will take this on, if all is what it appears to be.

solarwinds

It appears from the letter you have received from your club that they have accepted these completely unreasonable requests and are informing you as a member that this is the way it is going to be from now on. If this was my club I would expect it to be fought a bit better. But I am not privy to the workings of your club.
To me these are totally unreasonable requests, granted I could accept it to be submitted once as land changes hands and new owners permissions may need to be clarified. But to submit that every 3 years that is off the wall.
Do not accept this demands lying down your club needs to take a stand here.

meathstevie

How many people can present written permission letters for all the land they actually have permission on for a bit of lamping and small game hunting ? The same goes for gun clubs.

A lot of farmers grant permission to individuals and clubs verbally and would in some cases be quite unwilling to do so in writing as it creates unnecessary potential complications.

There is no basis in law for what the Superintendent demands. As far as I’m concerned your club should be complying as soon as the Superintendent in question can produce copies of the legislation stating that a gun club needs 70 written permissions from 70 individual farmers in order to operate.

You actually don’t even need a single farmer’s permission to have good reason to have a shotgun for the purposes of hunting. The State itself issues written permissions valid for five years for hunting duck and geese on State owned lakes and foreshore.

Also the proposed geographical limitations within the State as to where your certificate would be valid appears a bit dodgy to say the least. We all know certain firearms can’t be used outside authorised ranges but I’ve never seen one stating for example :”authorised ranges in County Leitrim only”.

All the different bits and pieces of legislation that state where and when you can and can’t shoot are already in place, you can find them in a combination of the firearms acts, the criminal justice acts, the legislation providing for the creation and maintenance of national parks, the wildlife act and open season orders and so on...

On the other hand if your club is based in an area that has experienced substantial urbanization over the last decades it’s not unreasonable for the Superintendent to ask for some tangible evidence of sufficient land permissions to cater for the number of members but there are no legal definitions or limits to those numbers.

If for arguments sake you have twenty members in the club and you can produce written permissions for approximately 2000 acres which would be give or take anything from 5 to 25 landowners depending on the type and size of farming operations it should suffice.

If your club secretary is quoting the Superintendent correctly the first thing he/she should do is to get those demands in writing, signed and dated and bring it straight to the NARGC or a solicitor to have a horse and cart driven right through it.

cookimonster

Firstly I think its a unreasonable and possibly unlawful request.

I absolutely agree that if the club is NARGC affiliated then this needs to be kicked up to regional and national level.
If the club is not registered then I would be high tailing it to the NARGC to get on board with them.

Not casting doubt or giving any support to the Super' but if there has been dodgy dealings in relation to the club and its permissions or membership protocol this may have evoked his wrath.

Grizzly 45

Wayyy over the line this.
Wasnt this comediean
mentioned in another thread a few weeks back here,about him wanting these permissions in the middle of a pandemic, in a lockdown,and giving a few days to do it as well?
If it is the same clown doing this,numerous answers are already here as what to do,and if it is different one.Apply the same answers ,and tell your club admin and reps to step up to the plate on this.

Emmersonn

Thanks for the advice lads. Will have a chat with the committee and see if we can trim this guys feathers

Mellor

The 70 permissions, maps, timeline to do so etc. All pulled out of his arse.

But be very careful how a refusal is presented. I’d be making sure to avoid a situation where someone can claim (in court or otherwise) that you couldn’t produce permissions.
Instead go back to them asking for a “clarification” (;)), so it can be complied properly, as to which section of the act it pertains.

And regardless on how much faith you have in be GC. It wouldn’t harm to have some permissions in writing, especially if your license is relevant on local land permission.

meathstevie wrote: »

A lot of farmers grant permission to individuals and clubs verbally and would in some cases be quite unwilling to do so in writing as it creates unnecessary potential complications.

While verbal contracts can be valid and binding. And people should be happy to avail of verbal permission. You wouldn’t want to be relying on same should it get nasty.


You actually don’t even need a single farmer’s permission to have good reason to have a shotgun for the purposes of hunting. The State itself issues written permissions valid for five years for hunting duck and geese on State owned lakes and foreshore.

Also the proposed geographical limitations within the State as to where your certificate would be valid appears a bit dodgy to say the least. We all know certain firearms can’t be used outside authorised ranges but I’ve never seen one stating for example :”authorised ranges in County Leitrim only”.

I took that to be a badly paraphrased attempt of saying “you need permission to shoot on any land”.

Which is true. Permission from a farmer, land owner, the state, and the range owner has given permission on their property.

On the other hand if your club is based in an area that has experienced substantial urbanization over the last decades it’s not unreasonable for the Superintendent to ask for some tangible evidence of sufficient land permissions to cater for the number of members but there are no legal definitions or limits to those numbers.

Agreed. It’s not hard to imagine a gun club operating in a semi-urban area operating on presumed permissions, that in reality are greatly diminished.
But there’s a hostile and a non-hostile way to go about that.

berettaman

Emmersonn wrote: »

Is this a new development and if so what are your thoughts. parts of a letter received from our club secretary.
https://postimg.cc/R3yPN7yn

Hi, you need to contact the NARGC pronto about this.


I believe a few Supers tried this in other areas and a bit of sanity was put in place.

Kat1170

I'd say like any club you'll have plenty of ''Don't rock the boaters'', but I'd be at pains to point out to them , what happens next time when he wants 150 landowners written permissions. People like him never stop once they get a foot in the door.

Straight to the NARGC. Its what they are there for.

wexfordman2

this is happening in my area also (cork).

Hunter456

I'd be getting on to the nargc that super is seriously on a power trip.

ronn

wexfordman2 wrote: »

this is happening in my area also (cork).

I was a member of a club in cork and I heard the super is looking for 3 written permissions of each member,

ganmo

Forgive my ignorance of gun clubs but do gun clubs not have maps or details of where they have permission to shoot?