GEM points dropping 2020

hrvo1998

Hi everyone!

there has been a lot of talk about CAO points dropping due to lack of international students for the incoming academic year starting 2020. I'm sure this has to be the case for GEM too seeing as the likes of RCSI and UCD have over half of the course made up with international students.

I've sat the Gamsats twice and got 57 both times and as i live in Dublin, RCSI and UCD would be the most convenient for me to go to. I know in previous years a score of 57 wouldnt have been nearly enough to secure a place in those colleges but i was wondering what thoughts people had on the points dropping this year in general??

galwaypharmer

I don't see points rising anyways, it would be very controversial if they did....

RoundPony

hrvo1998 wrote: »

Hi everyone!

there has been a lot of talk about CAO points dropping due to lack of international students for the incoming academic year starting 2020. I'm sure this has to be the case for GEM too seeing as the likes of RCSI and UCD have over half of the course made up with international students.

I've sat the Gamsats twice and got 57 both times and as i live in Dublin, RCSI and UCD would be the most convenient for me to go to. I know in previous years a score of 57 wouldnt have been nearly enough to secure a place in those colleges but i was wondering what thoughts people had on the points dropping this year in general??

International students don't generally take the GAMSAT (i.e all the international GEMS students I know took the MCAT not GAMSAT) and there is a completely different admissions process for them so this would have zero impact on the cut off scores for EU students. Their scores don't factor into the cut off for EU places.

galwaypharmer

RoundPony wrote: »

International students don't generally take the GAMSAT (i.e all the international GEMS students I know took the MCAT not GAMSAT) and there is a completely different admissions process for them so this would have zero impact on the cut off scores for EU students. Their scores don't factor into the cut off for EU places.

Unless they increased the number of Irish places due to significant losses in international students coming in, but its debatable.

RoundPony

galwaypharmer wrote: »

Unless they increased the number of Irish places due to significant losses in international students coming in, but its debatable.

I personally would say very doubtful because Irish students I believe are loss making on their own (this is coming from a friend working within the university)so the cost of running the school is made up from International students - obviously this is the big issue. But I can't imagine increasing Irish students at a loss would help in any way other than increasing the deficit.

But who knows really!

galwaypharmer

RoundPony wrote: »

I personally would say very doubtful because Irish students I believe are loss making on their own (this is coming from a friend working within the university)so the cost of running the school is made up from International students - obviously this is the big issue. But I can't imagine increasing Irish students at a loss would help in any way other than increasing the deficit.

But who knows really!

Interesting analogy...i guess a medical school would run better with students anyways thats for sure, lol

markocokram

I contacted RCSI about international students and they basically said they couldn't function without them.My guess is they bring them in 2 weeks early to do the quarentine and that'll be it.If anything I think point might drop by maybe 1 due to some people deferring their gamsat exam. You'd have to think that this is the smallest sitting in years

galwaypharmer wrote: »

Interesting analogy...i guess a medical school would run better with students anyways thats for sure, lol

Hopeful GEM

markocokram wrote: »

I contacted RCSI about international students and they basically said they couldn't function without them.My guess is they bring them in 2 weeks early to do the quarentine and that'll be it.If anything I think point might drop by maybe 1 due to some people deferring their gamsat exam. You'd have to think that this is the smallest sitting in years

Do you mind me asking what they said on it? From what I read on their FAQs for prospective undergrads, the MCAT has been cancelled and a lot have been advised to defer their place 2021 and do MCAT when it comes back which is in like May and June, but they had to have provided MCAT before a certain date in May. If they lose out even half of their 50 non-EU places they're screwed so they're almost better off letting in more Irish students to make up for the already massive losses.
That said, the're trying real hard to make accomodations for them to either come here or do some stuff at home but join later (at least for undergrad entry where there aren't a whole lot of hands on clinical skills being taught like in GEM)

In short, really hope points drop. It's looking likely anyway, even if the amount of places don't change a whole lot

Hollabackgurl

Hopeful GEM wrote: »

It's looking likely anyway, even if the amount of places don't change a whole lot

hahaha sure.

Hopeful GEM

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

hahaha sure.

Well I'm trying to stay optimisitic about it anyway...

Flimsy_Boat

There were a lot of people on 55 last year that did not get offered a place in UL, just go through last year's threads. Those individuals will be eligible to compete for a place this year.

A smaller percentage of people did not get UCD or RCSI and will try again this year.

I don't anticipate points dropping more than 1 point. The exams are scaled, so any coronavirus related stress will be accounted for in this cohort.

Flimsy_Boat

Hopeful GEM wrote: »

Do you mind me asking what they said on it? From what I read on their FAQs for prospective undergrads, the MCAT has been cancelled and a lot have been advised to defer their place 2021 and do MCAT when it comes back which is in like May and June, but they had to have provided MCAT before a certain date in May. If they lose out even half of their 50 non-EU places they're screwed so they're almost better off letting in more Irish students to make up for the already massive losses.
That said, the're trying real hard to make accomodations for them to either come here or do some stuff at home but join later (at least for undergrad entry where there aren't a whole lot of hands on clinical skills being taught like in GEM)

In short, really hope points drop. It's looking likely anyway, even if the amount of places don't change a whole lot

The MCAT is offered multiple times per year and a lot of people sit on old scores.

On studentdoctor.net in the UK/Ireland programmes forum, you will see that most of the universities have already offered places to North American grads. Interviews were conducted in March/April over skype which is actually normal, even in other years. My North American classmates found accomodation in June when the Irish students had to wait until August. Hopefully the housing shortage won't be as bad this year.

Hollabackgurl

Hopeful GEM wrote: »

Well I'm trying to stay optimisitic about it anyway...

There is being optimistic and then there is convincing yourself something might happen because it suits you and defies logic. You have convinced yourself they are coming down because it suits your situation. You claim it is quite likely they will drop when you have no idea and honestly the arguments as to why they won't are stronger than your own personal biased guess that they are going to drop so you can get in.

Here's the thing....nobody has any idea what is going to happen so guessing is only making people feel better. Historic scores are a fairly good indicator of future scores so they have't changed much hate to tell you.

bella11

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

There is being optimistic and then there is convincing yourself something might happen because it suits you and defies logic. You have convinced yourself they are coming down because it suits your situation. You claim it is quite likely they will drop when you have no idea and honestly the arguments as to why they won't are stronger than your own personal biased guess that they are going to drop so you can get in.

Here's the thing....nobody has any idea what is going to happen so guessing is only making people feel better. Historic scores are a fairly good indicator of future scores so they have't changed much hate to tell you.

oh lol, of course nobody knows whats going to happen but the scenario is completely different this year in so many aspects. I wouldn't call a presumption points may drop as defying logic...

humboldt

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

You claim it is quite likely they will drop when you have no idea and honestly the arguments as to why they won't are stronger than your own personal biased guess that they are going to drop so you can get in.

Can you outline why you think points wont drop, and how these arguements are stronger than those saying points are likely to drop?

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

Here's the thing....nobody has any idea what is going to happen so guessing is only making people feel better. Historic scores are a fairly good indicator of future scores so they have't changed much hate to tell you.

So first you say that 'honestly the arguments as to why they won't (drop) are stronger' and then you say 'nobody has any idea what is going to happen'

'Historic scores are a fairly good indicator of future scores so they have't changed much hate to tell you.'

scores have been fluctuating and may well go down again. (UCD GEM past 5 years: 58,59,59,58,59) (RCSI GEM past 5 years: 58,58,58,58,60)

and BTW I don't need points to drop I just think you're an absolute misery. So what if HopefulGEM is optimistic? the clue is in the name.

Peek1

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

There is being optimistic and then there is convincing yourself something might happen because it suits you and defies logic. You have convinced yourself they are coming down because it suits your situation. You claim it is quite likely they will drop when you have no idea and honestly the arguments as to why they won't are stronger than your own personal biased guess that they are going to drop so you can get in.

Here's the thing....nobody has any idea what is going to happen so guessing is only making people feel better. Historic scores are a fairly good indicator of future scores so they have't changed much hate to tell you.

lol, I mean, if you were to just lean to which side the points would go (up or down) I think its fair to say its its down with everything going on ... logically speaking.

bella11

Reddit is kind of funny, its like censorship lol, only delightful experiences posted

DivaDanto

Hollaback, everyone is aware this is speculation but let us all live in hope and stop being an absolute buzz-kill

JDOC1996

bella11 wrote: »

Reddit is kind of funny, its like censorship lol, only delightful experiences posted

Ah I wouldn’t say so, in fact most people seem to have be posting negative experiences.

Hopeful GEM

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

There is being optimistic and then there is convincing yourself something might happen because it suits you and defies logic. You have convinced yourself they are coming down because it suits your situation. You claim it is quite likely they will drop when you have no idea and honestly the arguments as to why they won't are stronger than your own personal biased guess that they are going to drop so you can get in.

Here's the thing....nobody has any idea what is going to happen so guessing is only making people feel better. Historic scores are a fairly good indicator of future scores so they have't changed much hate to tell you.

Lol cool it. I don't need points to drop to get in either but I was making an educated guess based on the information that's out there. Not expecting a total collapse to the point where everyone gets in but 1 or 2 points seems logical given the information available and the strong points made by humboldt. I'm by no means defying logic in my belief that points are more likely to drop than rise. With what we know nationally and what we can see happening in other countries as regards university places, points dropping is within the realm of possibility.

You're right that no one knows what'll happen but a bit of optimism doesn't hurt in a time like this. Maybe try some rather than lashing out at others for trying to believe it'll be okay?

Flimsy_Boat

Hopeful GEM wrote: »

Lol cool it. I don't need points to drop to get in either but I was making an educated guess based on the information that's out there. Not expecting a total collapse to the point where everyone gets in but 1 or 2 points seems logical given the information available and the strong points made by humboldt. I'm by no means defying logic in my belief that points are more likely to drop than rise. With what we know nationally and what we can see happening in other countries as regards university places, points dropping is within the realm of possibility.

You're right that no one knows what'll happen but a bit of optimism doesn't hurt in a time like this. Maybe try some rather than lashing out at others for trying to believe it'll be okay?

You are entitled to share your opinion and thank you for stimulating discussion on this topic. While I am now past the GAMSAT stage, I can say I am still traumatized by the entire experience and still follow these forums.:D

Hollabackgirl has the kind of bitter attitude that I recognise in a few of my classmates, and they are not happy people generally. They seem to delight in others' failures and misfortune, and resent those who get ahead of them. I have made it my business to live well and optimistically to spite these people. Thankfully, this group is a small, albeit loud, minority.

As stated in my previous posts, I don't foresee points dropping much this year. At the end of the day, this is medical school and it is competitive. In hard economic times, people tend to gravitate toward this profession as well, but these effects won't be realised in this cohort as it takes a minimum of 6 months to apply. So points are likely to increase significantly next year if there isn't the V-shaped economic bounceback that some economists are suggesting in the papers today (as a result of EU stimulus packages).

You don't have long to wait now, and this will be a very interesting year.

bella11

Flimsy_Boat wrote: »

You are entitled to share your opinion and thank you for stimulating discussion on this topic. While I am now past the GAMSAT stage, I can say I am still traumatized by the entire experience and still follow these forums.:D

Hollabackgirl has the kind of bitter attitude that I recognise in a few of my classmates, and they are not happy people generally. They seem to delight in others' failures and misfortune, and resent those who get ahead of them. I have made it my business to live well and optimistically to spite these people. Thankfully, this group is a small, albeit loud, minority.

As stated in my previous posts, I don't foresee points dropping much this year. At the end of the day, this is medical school and it is competitive. In hard economic times, people tend to gravitate toward this profession as well, but these effects won't be realised in this cohort as it takes a minimum of 6 months to apply. So points are likely to increase significantly next year if there isn't the V-shaped economic bounceback that some economists are suggesting in the papers today (as a result of EU stimulus packages).

You don't have long to wait now, and this will be a very interesting year.

yeah Id say they will drop by one or two maybe at most

Hollabackgurl

humboldt wrote: »

Can you outline why you think points wont drop, and how these arguements are stronger than those saying points are likely to drop?

Just so you know, it is spelled "arguments".

International students aren't going to matter. If they want to enroll in GEMS, it is going to happen even if it is virtually for a while. Also, as you so kindly listed below, 2019 points were slightly higher so there would be a lot of people of higher scores that didn't get in this year that will also be applying.

humboldt wrote: »

So first you say that 'honestly the arguments as to why they won't (drop) are stronger' and then you say 'nobody has any idea what is going to happen'

See above. People are convinced that they are going to down because they want them to. They won't go down. This is my opinion. Time will tell because nobody can see into the future but surely people with a brain choose the side with stronger evidence not the emotional side of "my score wasn't quite there so I'll dream my place into existence". Sorry if it wasn't but I don't know why you would set yourself up for potential disappointment by fully believing they will drop and then not get in. Energy better spent studying to try and get in.

humboldt wrote: »

'Historic scores are a fairly good indicator of future scores so they have't changed much hate to tell you.'

scores have been fluctuating and may well go down again. (UCD GEM past 5 years: 58,59,59,58,59) (RCSI GEM past 5 years: 58,58,58,58,60)

I mean hate to tell you but you've proven my own point for me here. Those UCD scores are never below 58 and there is only ever a one point fluctuation from 58-59 and back again. Same with RCSI. You can't see how the scores are a good indicator and 4 out of 5 are the same score?? One higher in 5 years. My point was that if you are wishing for RCSI to drop to 55 this year, dream on. If you are thinking that a 52 might get you into GEMS, you might need to plan to take the GAMSAT again. Both are highly unlikely to happen.

humboldt wrote: »

and BTW I don't need points to drop

I wasn't talking about you but easy to say that without having to prove it. I really don't care what your score was.

humboldt wrote: »

I just think you're an absolute misery.

Aw thanks hun.

RoundPony

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

Just so you know, it is spelled "arguments".

International students aren't going to matter. If they want to enroll in GEMS, it is going to happen even if it is virtually for a while. Also, as you so kindly listed below, 2019 points were slightly higher so there would be a lot of people of higher scores that didn't get in this year that will also be applying.




See above. People are convinced that they are going to down because they want them to. They won't go down. This is my opinion. Time will tell because nobody can see into the future but surely people with a brain choose the side with stronger evidence not the emotional side of "my score wasn't quite there so I'll dream my place into existence". Sorry if it wasn't but I don't know why you would set yourself up for potential disappointment by fully believing they will drop and then not get in. Energy better spent studying to try and get in.




I mean hate to tell you but you've proven my own point for me here. Those UCD scores are never below 58 and there is only ever a one point fluctuation from 58-59 and back again. Same with RCSI. You can't see how the scores are a good indicator and 4 out of 5 are the same score?? One higher in 5 years. My point was that if you are wishing for RCSI to drop to 55 this year, dream on. If you are thinking that a 52 might get you into GEMS, you might need to plan to take the GAMSAT again. Both are highly unlikely to happen.



I wasn't talking about you but easy to say that without having to prove it. I really don't care what your score was.



Aw thanks hun.

Maybe find something better to do with your time than be awful to people.

Peek1

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

Just so you know, it is spelled "arguments".

International students aren't going to matter. If they want to enroll in GEMS, it is going to happen even if it is virtually for a while. Also, as you so kindly listed below, 2019 points were slightly higher so there would be a lot of people of higher scores that didn't get in this year that will also be applying.




See above. People are convinced that they are going to down because they want them to. They won't go down. This is my opinion. Time will tell because nobody can see into the future but surely people with a brain choose the side with stronger evidence not the emotional side of "my score wasn't quite there so I'll dream my place into existence". Sorry if it wasn't but I don't know why you would set yourself up for potential disappointment by fully believing they will drop and then not get in. Energy better spent studying to try and get in.




I mean hate to tell you but you've proven my own point for me here. Those UCD scores are never below 58 and there is only ever a one point fluctuation from 58-59 and back again. Same with RCSI. You can't see how the scores are a good indicator and 4 out of 5 are the same score?? One higher in 5 years. My point was that if you are wishing for RCSI to drop to 55 this year, dream on. If you are thinking that a 52 might get you into GEMS, you might need to plan to take the GAMSAT again. Both are highly unlikely to happen.



I wasn't talking about you but easy to say that without having to prove it. I really don't care what your score was.



Aw thanks hun.

Lol, stop being silly, I doubt anyone is hoping or expecting more than a 1 or even a 2 points drop (which is pushing it imo), you make it out to be so dramatic.

I think if you are in a position with a 54 or 55 points, the drop in one point can mean you going or not going to med this year. And seeing how **** has hit the fan in the world, can be a liiiiitle doubtful that points would rise.

But ofc, I don't know anything so we will see

bella11

Peek1 wrote: »

Lol, stop being silly, I doubt anyone is hoping or expecting more than a 1 or even a 2 points drop (which is pushing it imo), you make it out to be so dramatic.

I think if you are in a position with a 54 or 55 points, the drop in one point can mean you going or not going to med this year. And seeing how **** has hit the fan in the world, can be a liiiiitle doubtful that points would rise.

But ofc, I don't know anything so we will see

Exactly....and the points have fluctuated more before 2015 with points coming down by 1 or 2 on certain years...its not the craziest thing in the world to happen given the circumstances of this year!

markocokram

RoundPony wrote: »

Maybe find something better to do with your time than be awful to people.

Seconded. What a prick. Haven't seen anyone else behave like that on this board. Correcting people's spellings. Get a life. Safe to say they're not very popular with the other kids...

humboldt

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

International students aren't going to matter. If they want to enroll in GEMS, it is going to happen even if it is virtually for a while. Also, as you so kindly listed below, 2019 points were slightly higher so there would be a lot of people of higher scores that didn't get in this year that will also be applying.

Did I mention International students? Yes, 2019 points were higher than the preceding years, but the scores have troughs and peaks. Don't see how there will be 'a lot of people of higher scores that didn't get in this year that will also be applying', if their scores were higher than last year's scores they would have got in last year. Additionaly, people sitting the March sitting is most certainly down, so there's more than likely going to be less people with scores 60+. Finally, actually financing the degree is more than likely going to be harder this year than any year since the recession, as many people have lost months of earning time this summer. Unfortunately, people with good points may be excluded from entering GEM this year

You're welcome to your opinion, but I'm curious if you're actually a GEM student yourself?

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

My point was that if you are wishing for RCSI to drop to 55 this year, dream on. If you are thinking that a 52 might get you into GEMS, you might need to plan to take the GAMSAT again. Both are highly unlikely to happen.

Where did I, or anyone else mention 55 or 52? You're moving the goalposts now. I said I think that points might drop, nothing about 55/52. Is it unreasonable to expect RCSI to drop slightly from the high peak of 60 this year considering the circumstances?

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

I wasn't talking about you but easy to say that without having to prove it. I really don't care what your score was.

You weren't talking about me but no doubt I simply preempted a snide comment from you about other people's points that you really have no idea about, like the one you aimed at HopefulGEM.

Hollabackgurl wrote: »

You have convinced yourself they are coming down because it suits your situation. You claim it is quite likely they will drop when you have no idea and honestly the arguments as to why they won't are stronger than your own personal biased guess that they are going to drop so you can get in.

PS. I'll attach my GAMSAT results and prove my score if you attach yours, or proof that you're actually in GEM Otherwise I won't be replying

PhoenixD15

Do we have any way of knowing how many fewer people sat the recent Gamsat? I know that Acer was encpuraging refunds or reschedule to Sept on people initially and I imagine some deferred hoping to avoid having to use a screen to sit it but the results show that scores are slightly higher this year so this might cancel out reduced number of applicants... hard to say without knowing how many sat it compared to previously...

taxignorant

PhoenixD15 wrote: »

Do we have any way of knowing how many fewer people sat the recent Gamsat? I know that Acer was encpuraging refunds or reschedule to Sept on people initially and I imagine some deferred hoping to avoid having to use a screen to sit it but the results show that scores are slightly higher this year so this might cancel out reduced number of applicants... hard to say without knowing how many sat it compared to previously...

I haven't seen the number of candidates published anywhere. The majority of complaints on Reddit etc are regarding points drops, which doesn't make sense given the way the curve moved but I suppose it's natural that people will complain when they go down marks.

Perhaps the extra two months of study time suited people, especially if they were off work, or the least prepared / least confident were the most likely to defer thus better scores?

PhoenixD15

I just looked at the March curves for 2017,2018,2019,2020. Sadly I don't know how to attach it to this but the curve shifted to the left in 2018 yet points in Ireland went up that Sept. Our numbers are tiny compared to the other nationalities so the global curve we are given is probably of very little use in the Irish context.