Electric or hybrid?

The One Doctor

Hi all,

I'm in the market for a car right now, I have about €7k to spend.

I own a 2005 Prius and had my eyes on a 2012 Prius, but after driving one I realised that it's not for me. The Honda hybrids don't appeal either and neither do diesels.

I'm wondering if a electric car might suit. I have a 50km round trip commute three times a week and almost never go beyond that. We live semi rurally (just outside Balrothery) and we have a Yaris as well.

Would an electric car be appropriate for us and would 7k get me a reasonable one, given that it's a buyer's market right now?

All opinions welcomed.

slave1

If you really want to go electric then I'd get a banger for a year or so and wait for better options given your budget

Lantus

7k won't quite cut it in the elec 2nd hand market. An aging 1st gen leaf is all you will get and it may not get you 50km in the depths of winter.....

But you are right it's a buyers market so lots of small engine petrols to choose from.

Your fuel costs are so low to begin with the savings are not going to pay off for the extra cost of an expensive battery.

Black_Knight

Lantus wrote: »

7k won't quite cut it in the elec 2nd hand market. An aging 1st gen leaf is all you will get and it may not get you 50km in the depths of winter.....

But you are right it's a buyers market so lots of small engine petrols to choose from.

Your fuel costs are so low to begin with the savings are not going to pay off for the extra cost of an expensive battery.

Well if they were to spend the same money regardless of the car, electric will save them. As said though, 7k is a bit shy of EV money.

Lumen

Interestingly, old Leaf prices in Ireland aren't all that different to the UK.

A 2012 Leaf is advertised from maybe €8k in Ireland or £6k (€6.7k) in the UK (Carzone vs Autotrader). That's only 20% more in Ireland.

Whereas a 2012 Golf might be €6.5k in Ireland or £3k (€3.3k) in the UK, which is about twice the price.

Does that mean used EVs in Ireland are relatively good value? I don't know.

On the other hand, would I rather have a 2012 petrol Golf or a 2012 Leaf? Hmmm.....you can't do mega mileage in a Leaf so there aren't great fuel savings to be had. I think I'd take the Golf.

The One Doctor

I can go up to 8.5k if that makes any difference?

Gumbo

The One Doctor wrote: »

I can go up to 8.5k if that makes any difference?

Your search is still limited to first Gen Nissan Leaf.
What kind of range do you need?
What’s your daily useable?

A first gen leaf would save you more than a Prius if it works for your daily driving.

Black_Knight

Gumbo wrote: »

Your search is still limited to first Gen Nissan Leaf.
What kind of range do you need?
What’s your daily useable?

A first gen leaf would save you more than a Prius if it works for your daily driving.

Are the 2014/15 first gen leafs better battery tech than the original 2012s?

slave1

Black_Knight wrote: »

Are the 2014/15 first gen leafs better battery tech than the original 2012s?

100% yes

The One Doctor

Gumbo wrote: »

Your search is still limited to first Gen Nissan Leaf.
What kind of range do you need?
What’s your daily useable?

A first gen leaf would save you more than a Prius if it works for your daily driving.

My typical days driving would be 50k with a maximum of 100km (rarely). I mostly travel on motorways and main roads. No large hills.

kanuseeme

Vauxhall Ampera ? 50 mile range on electric and a range extender after that. you would have to up your budget just to buy, would cost 7.5 k. Vrt should not be that much. only problems I see with it are servicing (up north) and only a 4 seater.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202003198589578?price-from=6000&radius=1500&price-to=8000&postcode=cv92pz&advertising-location=at_cars&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric&fuel-type=Hybrid%20%E2%80%93%20Petrol%2FElectric%20Plug-in&onesearchad=New&onesearchad=Nearly%20New&onesearchad=Used&make=VAUXHALL&sort=price-asc&page=1

There is a thread on them here.

Have you looked at Lexus?

Lantus

The One Doctor wrote: »

My typical days driving would be 50k with a maximum of 100km (rarely). I mostly travel on motorways and main roads. No large hills.

Your going to struggle with a 100km journey esp as you will use M1 for journeys.

The One Doctor

Yeah, I'll just stick with my Prius and keep the money.

unkel

Lumen wrote: »

Does that mean used EVs in Ireland are relatively good value? I don't know.

Yes, they are. A 2012 Leaf in Ireland can be had from about €4k. In the UK it's more like from GBP5k. The UK (and most EU countries too) are a year or two ahead of us wrt demand for (second hand) EVs, which means the prices stay strong. Which is a good predictor for relatively low depreciation on cheap second hand EVs for the years to come in this country

Buy a half decent €4k Leaf now, and you will have feck all depreciation on one, even though the car will get older and the battery will degrade further

Lantus

The One Doctor wrote: »

Yeah, I'll just stick with my Prius and keep the money.

Keep it going and save up so when the time comes you can make choices. Good move.

zilog_jones

The One Doctor wrote: »

I own a 2005 Prius and had my eyes on a 2012 Prius, but after driving one I realised that it's not for me.

What didn't you like about the newer Prius?

The One Doctor

zilog_jones wrote: »

What didn't you like about the newer Prius?

Even more bland inside and less comfortable to drive. Just felt wrong.

sumo12

The One Doctor wrote: »

Yeah, I'll just stick with my Prius and keep the money.

Correct answer. Glad you arrived at that conclusion, saved me telling you..

ELM327

The One Doctor wrote: »

Even more bland inside and less comfortable to drive. Just felt wrong.

We have an 08 prius and I test drove a '17 a couple of years ago. They are worlds apart. The new ones are as comfortable to drive as an EV in terms of smoothness. The only issue is the CVT noise, and the lack of space beside my left leg when driving.

The One Doctor

ELM327 wrote: »

We have an 08 prius and I test drove a '17 a couple of years ago. They are worlds apart. The new ones are as comfortable to drive as an EV in terms of smoothness. The only issue is the CVT noise, and the lack of space beside my left leg when driving.

Different taste, different opinions.

ELM327

I mean, that's fair enough, but (apart from looks, which, lets face it, the prius dont win any contests anyway) I think we're in different boats on this one.

The One Doctor

ELM327 wrote: »

I mean, that's fair enough, but (apart from looks, which, lets face it, the prius dont win any contests anyway) I think we're in different boats on this one.

Actually I've decide to buy a Prius after all. An EV is fairly useless if you're renting rurally.

KCross

The One Doctor wrote: »

An EV is fairly useless if you're renting rurally.

Why is that?

Black_Knight

KCross wrote: »

Why is that?

Most obvious thing is the ability to charge. If you're lucky, there's an outdoor socket, but that would be rare.

Getting a charger installed is going to need permission from the landlord to adapt the electrics in the house, drill holes, add conduit, mount a charge point. When the renter moves, does all that just get ripped out?

unkel

A charge point install attracts a subsidy of €600. If you are smart about it, you can get it installed for around that sort of money (using a second hand unit if you have to)

This means it won't cost you anything to get one installed. Your LL will have to be a complete idiot to not let you install a charge point if you promise them that you will leave it in perfect working condition when you vacate the premises

win-win here

And not such a hard solution to come up with now, is it? I'd guess KCross had a similar scenario in mind when he questioned why it would be useles.

KCross

unkel wrote: »

And not such a hard solution to come up with now, is it? I'd guess KCross had a similar scenario in mind when he questioned why it would be useles.

Exactly that.

There are all kinds of strange people in the world so you could of course get an asshole landlord that won’t agree to anything but it’s not true to say that rural renting and EVs don’t make sense as a general rule.

As you said, he’d need to be an idiot. They exist of course.

Black_Knight

That's alright when it's more or less free after the subsidy. What about when they move place? Long term rentals are somewhat rare in Ireland, so chances are in a few years they'd be paying out another 600 odd to install at a different house.

unkel

Yes of course. But if they don't use the subsidy now, it will almost certainly be gone anyway in a few years time.

slave1

Black_Knight wrote: »

That's alright when it's more or less free after the subsidy. What about when they move place? Long term rentals are somewhat rare in Ireland, so chances are in a few years they'd be paying out another 600 odd to install at a different house.

Switch ownership between couple, new address. Get the grant no probs.

zg3409

Black_Knight wrote: »

Most obvious thing is the ability to charge. If you're lucky, there's an outdoor socket, but that would be rare.

Run an extension cable with an inline waterproof socket out through the letterbox or a tied closed window opening.

Charge rate will be low 2kW per hour rate, but I survived like this for 3 weeks while I waited for the home charger install. If home for 12 hours nightly that gives 24kWh added range or 100+ km daily commute ability.

You could temporarily wire a proper charger instead of an electric cooker with load sense or a changeover switch. Run cable out cooker vent to temporary mounting for charger.

Landlords can be fickle and would probably insist charger is left behind when leaving rental property. Landlord probably would need to apply for grant.

ELM327

zg3409 wrote: »

Run an extension cable with an inline waterproof socket out through the letterbox or a tied closed window opening.

Charge rate will be low 2kW per hour rate, but I survived like this for 3 weeks while I waited for the home charger install. If home for 12 hours nightly that gives 24kWh added range or 100+ km daily commute ability.

You could temporarily wire a proper charger instead of an electric cooker with load sense or a changeover switch. Run cable out cooker vent to temporary mounting for charger.

Landlords can be fickle and would probably insist charger is left behind when leaving rental property. Landlord probably would need to apply for grant.

I managed like that for 12 months with a 24kWh leaf when renting rurally, and having a 110km commute daily.

Black_Knight

zg3409 wrote: »

Run an extension cable with an inline waterproof socket out through the letterbox or a tied closed window opening.

Charge rate will be low 2kW per hour rate, but I survived like this for 3 weeks while I waited for the home charger install. If home for 12 hours nightly that gives 24kWh added range or 100+ km daily commute ability.

You could temporarily wire a proper charger instead of an electric cooker with load sense or a changeover switch. Run cable out cooker vent to temporary mounting for charger.

Landlords can be fickle and would probably insist charger is left behind when leaving rental property. Landlord probably would need to apply for grant.

None of those sound like options I would like to live with. Takes the shine off owning an EV.

Black_Knight

Black_Knight wrote: »

None of those sound like options I would like to live with. Takes the shine off owning an EV.

The extension cable with an inline waterproof socket out of a window opening doesn't seem too bad..... Letterbox would be a pain alright

Lantus

Augeo wrote: »

The extension cable with an inline waterproof socket out of a window opening doesn't seem too bad..... Letterbox would be a pain alright

In winter?

ELM327

Lantus wrote: »

In winter?

I was lucky I had a garage with power so I ran the cable through the window to the garage.


I wouldnt be happy leaving a window open. Letterbox would work. or just get an outside socket

Lantus

Lantus wrote: »

In winter?

I've windows open a crack most of the year TBH.