Disability allowance, why spouse public pension taken into account

redcatstar

Why is disability allowance weird, it seems if spouse is getting a public service pension of 300, then its counted as means but not if they were getting a social welfare payment
Also if on deserted wives payment it is not affected by a public service payment
Can someone explain the unfairness of this pls

lughildanach

The social welfare system has a lot of intricacies and a lot of anomalies throughout it. It has developed over time and for all sorts of various reasons to protect various groups.

It may not be much comfort to you, but Jobseekers Allowance is even harsher than Disability Allowance in this regard. If you are on Jobseekers Allowance, and your spouse is on a social welfare pension, your Jobseekers is reduced, whereas this is not the case for Disability. The general principle is that a couple cannot claim two separate payments and receive more than the couple rate (unless they are both on non-means tested payments). An exception was made for Disability Allowance. I guess the reason the exception only applies to social welfare income is that it seemed unfair for the State to give a payment with one hand and take it with the other, and that problem was immediately apparent to those who designed the system. It may have been the case at the time the rules were designed that there wasn't a particularly large number of people on Disability Allowance who had spouses with private pension income.

The social welfare system tries to deal with so many different scenarios that it can be difficult to deal with every situation. The reality of the system is that it reflects the economics and politics of when the rules were brought in, if enough people are adversely affected and can bring pressure to change the system, it will be changed. As people's economic circumstances change, the system needs to develop with them, or it will let more people down.

Your circumstances are probably shared by a fair number of people. But there are probably larger groups and louder voices than yours at the minute. It is important that payments like Deserted Wives and other payments designed to protect vulnerable groups are also maintained.

redcatstar

I agree but on desertive wives why should someone who has grown children now left the home with a private pension of 1750 a month still receive 248 a week on top. Where as people like me who have worked 25 to 35 yrs only get a payment for 2 years and then not qualify for disability allowance

redcatstar

redcatstar wrote: »

I agree but on desertive wives why should someone who has grown children now left the home with a private pension of 1750 a month still receive 248 a week on top. Where as people like me who have worked 25 to 35 yrs only get a payment for 2 years and then not qualify for disability allowance

Deserted wives is an old payment, it no longer exists unless your claim went way back. However if you qualified for it way back you hold on to that payment in its name and in its rules. Now the payment is OPFP and different rules apply to it.

It definitey sounds like one of those anomalies , maybe Dept of Social Protection are not aware of a private pension in this case.

lughildanach

redcatstar wrote: »

I agree but on desertive wives why should someone who has grown children now left the home with a private pension of 1750 a month still receive 248 a week on top. Where as people like me who have worked 25 to 35 yrs only get a payment for 2 years and then not qualify for disability allowance

Deserted Wives payments were introduced in a different era (claim must have been made before 1992 to have no means test applied). One reason people have been allowed to keep it is because it would have been very unfair to take a payment off people who had been relying on it. This would have been seen as petty and politically unacceptable.

The rationale for the payment in the first place was because so many women were financially dependent on their husband. As far as unfairness goes, leaving a relatively small number of women on this payment is hardly the most noteworthy.

The 100% assessment of private pension income from means tested payments (whether from spouse or yourself) is however an issue that deserves more attention. There is no encouragement within the means tested system to accrue a private pension. Historically this wasn't a huge issue, and payments like Jobseekers and Disability were designed for those who did not have any such income. Society has changed, and the system should reflect that, by looking after circumstances that you have described, not by withdrawing supports that are there for other groups for very good reasons.

redcatstar

I'm afraid to say I know a number of people still receiving it and getting public service pensions.Think it is extremely unfair that people like me have worked paid tax etc but when they become Ill and unfit to work they get 2 years on benefits and then lose everything because its means tested.
Also others on DA can work for 120 euro and still keep full payment
I'm almost sorry I have been good , worked, paid tax etc and then thrown out

lughildanach

redcatstar wrote: »

I'm afraid to say I know a number of people still receiving it and getting public service pensions.Think it is extremely unfair that people like me have worked paid tax etc but when they become Ill and unfit to work they get 2 years on benefits and then lose everything because its means tested.
Also others on DA can work for 120 euro and still keep full payment
I'm almost sorry I have been good , worked, paid tax etc and then thrown out

Invalidity Pension is available for those who have 5 years full rate PRSI contributions.

Those on public service pensions may not always have the right rate of contribution to qualify for Invalidity. This is an issue that should be addressed. Although for new entrants, they are paying Class A stamp so the disparity will eventually end.

Do you think there would be much appetite for people with public service pensions to have the option to swap them for Invalidity Pension?

redcatstar

Obviously they would not want to swap , I do not have a public pension just my husband and on my work record I feel I should be entitled to 203 a week in my own right, plus I was refused invalidity pension
Why should my husband and I be penalized cause he worked in the public service

lughildanach

Its also not clear what the reference is to 2 years. Did you get Illness Benefit? If you had the right class of stamp for Illness Benefit and have worked for as long as you say, you should be getting Invalidity Pension if you are sick long-term (the medical test would be incapable for all categories of work for 12 months before and 12 months after your claim).

There are some complicated reasons why this may not apply, but perhaps review your entitlements.

lughildanach

redcatstar wrote: »

Obviously they would not want to swap , I do not have a public pension just my husband and on my work record I feel I should be entitled to 203 a week in my own right, plus I was refused invalidity pension
Why should my husband and I be penalized cause he worked in the public service

Why were you refused? If it was because you were not considered to be incapable of work long-term, then you can always re-apply, and can appeal if refused. If you have been on a combination of Illness Benefit and Disability Allowance for a number of years, you may have a strong case. It will depend on the prognosis of your illness. If you can show that you will not likely be able to work within the next year, you should receive Invalidity Pension.

If you were completely means tested out of Disability Allowance because your husband's pension, then you should have been advised to submit medical certificates for Illness credits. If you aren't receiving a reduced rate Disability Allowance you should arrange to submit Illness Benefit form. It won't involve any payment, but you will be allocated credits. As long as your medical certificates are accepted by the Department, they can help you qualify for Invalidity Pension.

redcatstar

Sorry if I sound angry but yes I got illness benefit and applied for invalidity after the 1st year and was refused it , I still have about 8 months of illness benefit to receive
But because of refusal for invalidity I cant see that changing in 8 mts
So I feel why , i just dont get it

lughildanach

redcatstar wrote: »

Sorry if I sound angry but yes I got illness benefit and applied for invalidity after the 1st year and was refused it , I still have about 8 months of illness benefit to receive
But because of refusal for invalidity I cant see that changing in 8 mts
So I feel why , i just dont get it

You have raised valid issues about the Disability Allowance means test. However, these won't change anytime soon.

However, in your circumstances, you should concentrate on establishing Invalidity Pension. Did you appeal the previous decision? If the decision was made within the last few months, they may entertain a late appeal. If it is too long ago, then submit again, and don't be afraid to appeal. A large number of claims refused first time round are awarded after appeal.

But you will have to show that you are incapable of all categories of work. If you are considered able to do light work or sedentary work, they will not award it.

redcatstar

Thank you I will apply again and appeal if I have too, just feeling let down by the system, I find it hard to walk and have mobility issues and from looking at online refusals and appeals , it seems like it depends on the day if you get it or not

lughildanach

redcatstar wrote: »

Thank you I will apply again and appeal if I have too, just feeling let down by the system, I find it hard to walk and have mobility issues and from looking at online refusals and appeals , it seems like it depends on the day if you get it or not

Just make sure you continue to send your medical certificates in, even if your Illness Benefit ends. Some claims can take more than a year to get to the end of the appeals process. Whilst this can cause financial difficulty when the Illness Benefit stops, it means that on the basis of your medical certs alone, you will have been considered to meet the criteria, as by that stage you will have the 12 months before and the 12 months after the claim date.

Even if the claim/appeal takes 9 months to process (which is about average), at that stage, you will only have to show the likelihood of being incapable of work for 3 more months.

Make sure you address the issue of light work in the medical evidence you submit. If your GP and any specialists you are working with state clearly that you are not capable of doing light work, this will help. In most cases the Department don't conduct their own medical examination, so the only evidence they are relying on is the evidence that you provide.

redcatstar

Thank you ðŸ‘💞