Best car for towing using a B licence 2020?

BrianD3

Just as a followup to this thread:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057420200

I can't find any towing weights for the new Mk8 Golf and am having difficulty finding them for the latest versions of the mk7 too. In the thread from 2015, some posters disputed that a 1.4 TSi Golf could be rated to tow 1700 kg and that it must be a typo, maybe it was.

I see that the Renault Megane hatchback is rated to tow 1650 kg, this applies to even the lowest powered TCe 100. The MAM of both the TCe 100 and TCe 140 is 1814 kg. 1814 + 1650 is <3500 kg so this can be towed with a B licence. Whether it is advisable to do this is another question.

It's not easy to give a link to the Renault brochure and the pdf is too big too attach so I have attached a screenshot.

Eric Cartman

If youre just trying to find the maximum way to tow the heaviest load id just do the E+B test and not try loophole it .

tbh the idea of towing anything over 1500kg with a small hatchback, while legal is insanity.

colm_mcm

Kerbweight on a Golf is very low to start with.

BrianD3

Eric Cartman wrote: »

tbh the idea of towing anything over 1500kg with a small hatchback, while legal is insanity.

Why is it insanity, if it were the manufacturer surely would not allow it.

This could be a case of old ideas persisting after they have become obsolete - similar to old ideas about 3k oil change intervals, rusty Fiats, car safety and so on.

Thirty years ago, the Renault 19 1.4 had a max braked towing weight of 800 kg, its modern equivalent has over double that. Not surprising that there would be a huge difference given the major improvements in terms of stability, braking, structural integrity, grip, longer wheelbase, wider track etc.

TrailerBob

Almost gone are the days of towing ratings for normal cars.. the move to hybrid and fancy gearboxes has manufacturer towing specs significantly reduced. It's understandable that you might want a golf to haul a ton the odd time. I'm sure the mk8 is able, but forget warranty I'd imagine

Eric Cartman

TrailerBob wrote: »

Almost gone are the days of towing ratings for normal cars.. the move to hybrid and fancy gearboxes has manufacturer towing specs significantly reduced. It's understandable that you might want a golf to haul a ton the odd time. I'm sure the mk8 is able, but forget warranty I'd imagine

exactly, engine power increases have absolutely enabled newer cars to tow heavier loads , but these cars are designed to do it once in a blue moon. using a golf to regularly tow heavy loads is going to see it eat a gearbox, have persistent heavy wear on braking components and definitely cause excess wear on the engine.

If you want to tow something over 1500kg, get a real SUV or pickup designed to do the job, something with a tow rating far in excess of what you want to tow. many pickups have a 3000-3500kg tow rating now.

BrianD3

Found some technical specs for the new Golf. In German but it is clear enough. Attached to this post. And to preempt more posts about how you'll wreck your car towing a heavy trailer, this is about the legal position.

As can be seen, two braked towing weights are given, for a 12% and 8% gradient.

From a B licence point of view the sweetspot seems to be the 130 PS TSi

Gross vehicle weight: 1800 kg
Max braked trailer weight 8% gradient: 1700 kg
Exactly on the 3500 kg limit for a B licence

AFAIK the gross train weight of the Golf would be a lot less than 3500 kg. You can tow a heavy trailer with a Golf or or you can load your Golf to 1800 kg but not both at the same time?

CiniO

BrianD3 wrote: »

Found some technical specs for the new Golf. In German but it is clear enough. Attached to this post. And to preempt more posts about how you'll wreck your car towing a heavy trailer, this is about the legal position.

As can be seen, two braked towing weights are given, for a 12% and 8% gradient.

From a B licence point of view the sweetspot seems to be the 130 PS TSi

Gross vehicle weight: 1800 kg
Max braked trailer weight 8% gradient: 1700 kg
Exactly on the 3500 kg limit for a B licence

AFAIK the gross train weight of the Golf would be a lot less than 3500 kg. You can tow a heavy trailer with a Golf or or you can load your Golf to 1800 kg but not both at the same time?

According to manufacturer spec, you are allowed to load your Golf fully at the same time as attaching 1700kg trailer.

I would like to see that golf though making longer 8% incline with such load...

I once drove Honda CRV 2.0 (150 BHP) which weights around 1600 unladen, packed with around 400kg up to max gross weight of 2000kg, and 1500kg trailer attached.
On German autobahns with 7% inclines, I had to run it on second gear at around 6000rpm to keep it going. It wouldn't make it on thrid.

TrailerBob

And thats exactly why you need a bigger tow vehicle if you plan on towing a ton and a half or more over any distance. Working out the max allowed is one thing, but running a hatchback to its max load for any proper amount of time isn't a good idea.

CiniO

TrailerBob wrote: »

And thats exactly why you need a bigger tow vehicle if you plan on towing a ton and a half or more over any distance. Working out the max allowed is one thing, but running a hatchback to its max load for any proper amount of time isn't a good idea.

Well I used that CRV (2006 model 2 litre petrol) with maximum manufacturer allowed load, meaining 400kg load inside the car (or even slightly more) + 1500kg trailer. (exactly what is maximum allowed by manufacturer).

And yes indeed climbing up steep inclines was challenging (doable but challenging), but generally I drove that set from West of Ireland to East of Poland (2500km) and consider journey went smooth enough.
Fuel economy around 13 l/100km (21.5 mpg) compared to around 10 l/100km (28mpg) during driving with no load or trailer. Most of the journey speed was around 90 km/h on 4th gear. I didn't use 5th.

But relating it to the thread, I'm not sure how this relates to modern cars with smaller engines and turbo.

eusap

What is the Main Goal?

To tow with a max weight or to tow a specific trailer ?

Remember the law is <3500kg i.e 3499kg, you can get a trailer downplated to reduce the carrying weight, your responsibility if you put more on it.

BrianD3

CiniO wrote: »

According to manufacturer spec, you are allowed to load your Golf fully at the same time as attaching 1700kg trailer.

I don't think that's correct, AFAIK the only way to know this is to check the VIN plate for the max train weight.

To give an example, my Renault Laguna is as follows.

Kerb weight: 1305 kg
Gross vehicle weight: 1835 kg
Max braked towing weight according to the brochure: 1300 kg
Max train weight according to the VIN plate: 2800 kg

So if I load the car up fully, I can only tow a 965 kg trailer.

Some manufacturers, when stating the max towing weight make it clear that it is driver only. The weight of a driver is I think assumed to be 68-75 kg.

BrianD3

eusap wrote: »

What is the Main Goal?

To tow with a max weight or to tow a specific trailer ?

Remember the law is <3500kg i.e 3499kg, you can get a trailer downplated to reduce the carrying weight, your responsibility if you put more on it.

Trailers can be downplated, I have heard of trucks having this done too but have never heard of it for a car. Because of the 3500 kg combination limit for a B licence, the MAM of the car is critical in staying legal. It would make life a lot easier if there was a way to downplate a car according to what you want to do with it.