Area in front of house - Property rights?

Triapin

Where someone's front wall is not right up on a road, what is the status of that piece of land? Is it private property? I know you see some houses put cones or other things up to prevent cars entering the area, but by building the front wall back, are people giving their property rights up? You would imagine the landowner would be entitled to build his wall up to the road if they wanted?

I have attached a picture as an example of the type of situation I am referring to.

Gatling

Would the garden walls not suggest the property boundary and anything outside that isn't private property?

Galwayguy35

Mine is like that, you can't build a wall up to the road any more like it was done in the past.

It was my property to start with so I still see it as my own.

GerardKeating

Often the deads to the property would say they own to the centre of the road, but obviously they cannot build on the road.

I would imagine when that house was built, the planning permission required them to set the boundry wall back to improve sight lines, so they might still own that stripe of land. Eventually the Local authority will CPO the stripe to widen the road perhaps.

Triapin

Yes, that is the type of situation I am referring to. Either you set it back yourself to make your entrance more accessible or you had to do it under planning permission. I suppose I am asking what is the consequences of that - is it then part of the "road"? For example, could someone leave their car there?

mickdw

Its an often discussed issue.
Typically, the wall setback is a planning requirement with area outside to be made suitable for parking so it is certainly not possible in those cases to build any nearer the road.
The problem though when an entire line of walls are setback, the council tend to regard those areas as a free for all and ive seen cases of roads widened into such areas without any permissions which in my opinion is far from correct

Gatling

So would those of you home owners with the same layout be responsible for the upkeep of the area directly outside the walls or is it left to others ie local authorities .

Honestly never realised that spaces outside homes like that could be private property , I'll pay more attention Whenever I'm outside Dublin more now

Had similar situation in my old house, wall was set back for planning permission but the area outside the wall was still part of the property.

coylemj

Wasn't aware that PP often stipulated that the strip be left outside the wall.

I always assumed it was done for social and practical reasons because if the drive is one car width and you have more than one visitor car in the drive, the last car in will block everyone else and if the first to arrive is the first to leave, it can be a nighthmare getting him out. Whereas if you have a strip outside the wall, several cars can park there without blocking one another in.

Galwayguy35

Gatling wrote: »

So would those of you home owners with the same layout be responsible for the upkeep of the area directly outside the walls or is it left to others ie local authorities .

Honestly never realised that spaces outside homes like that could be private property , I'll pay more attention Whenever I'm outside Dublin more now

I got a half load of gravel and spread it on the space between my wall and where the road starts.

coylemj

Gatling wrote: »

Honestly never realised that spaces outside homes like that could be private property , I'll pay more attention Whenever I'm outside Dublin more now

You don't have to go outside Dubln to see examples of this. Plenty of premises in Dublin have private parking outside with no wall or other boundary between that space and the public road.

Here's a link to a Google Streetview of the Grange Pub at Deansgrange Cross. Note the four parking spaces outside, the first one occupied by a dark Peugeot. They are private property, owned by the pub.

https://goo.gl/maps/wv17BRgh6g2f13Mj9

CrankyHaus

What would the liability of the landowner be to somebody who suffered an accident on that area?

Peregrinus

It's common (and extremely common in rural areas) for the property owners on each side of the road to own the land up to the mid-point of the road. The county councils/roads authority doesn't own any of the land.

However a strip of land on each side of the boundary is (taken to be) dedicated as a public highway, meaning that the general public have a right to pass and repass over that land, in vehicles and on foot. It's still owned by the landowners on either side, but their rights are subordinated to the rights of the public.

In general the roadway is taken in charge by the local authority, meaning (a) they maintain it - e.g. by surfacing it, and installing other necessary infrastructure, and (b) they can make bye-laws regulating its use, identifying part of it as a footway and part for cars, making it a one-way street, etc, etc.

Where land is dedicated as a public highway, it's generally assumed that the area dedicated is defined by the boundary markers on either side - walls, fences, ditches, whatever. And likewise where land is taken in charge by the local authority, the area taken in charge is defined by the boundary markers. But these presumptions can probably be rebutted with appropriate evidence, e.g showing that the local authority didn't maintain the strip outside your house, therefore they hadn't take it in charge.

The parking spaces outside the Grange Pub, as illustrated, may be owned by the landowner, in the sense that the landowner may own the roadway up to the centre, but I doubt very much if they are controlled by the landowner, as in, he decrees who may park there and who may not. It's clear that the footway has been realigned to create the parking spaces. The footway is certainly in charge of the local authority, so the parking spaces are constructed on land that was already dedicated and in charge, and furthermore they are separated from the pub by the realigned footway, which is presumably dedicated and in charge.

fran38

I've seen these strips where large rocks, often whitewashed placed on the edge of these strips to highlight ones property or to prevent parking by others. There is a house like that in my village where the owners have erected spaced out poles with chains.