Massey 390 start-up problem

Sugarbowl

Asking for a friend - his MF 390 is having trouble starting. The key turns and the engine cranks but the tractor won’t start. If you pull the stop cable in/out a few times and then turn the key she starts up. What’s causing this?

893bet

Stopper isn’t retracting properly?

Follow the stopper cable back to the engine and check it’s termination action.

Sugarbowl

It goes in and out normally from the view inside the tractor. Can’t find anything unusual wrong following the cord either. Would there be any connection to the fuel pump? The stopper cord appears to connect to that then.

emaherx

Sugarbowl wrote: »

It goes in and out normally from the view inside the tractor. Can’t find anything unusual wrong following the cord either. Would there be any connection to the fuel pump? The stopper cord appears to connect to that then.

Could easily be an issue internal to fuel pump. You may find it starts easier after tapping on fuel pump near stopper. ( If you are confident there is no issue from stopper to pump of course)

Wouldn't be a major repair.

patsy_mccabe

Ya, the fuel stop is in the Injection Pump. Just follow the cable out along.

RandomViewer

Is it a solid bar or a braided cable?

Sugarbowl

Yeah if the fuel pump is tapped it does start easier. Would that indicate anything in particular?

It’s a braided cable.

RandomViewer

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Yeah if the fuel pump is tapped it does start easier. Would that indicate anything in particular?

It’s a braided cable.

If you undo the cable at the pump end and then try it, cable could be seizing inside, if no different then problem is in pump, could just be a little bit of dirt floating around,

mickdw

Isnt the 390 stopper an electrical one with a solenoid doing the movement at the pump as opposed to the manual stopper of older models?
If so it worth checking wiring.

Would ye not check are fuel filters etc blocked first

Talks of ripping off pump/checking wiring is all pointless,if there isnt any or enough diesel getting to the pump

(Working on assumption,there is diesel in this)

RandomViewer

Deleted User wrote: »

Would ye not check are fuel filters etc blocked first

Talks of ripping off pump/checking wiring is all pointless,if there isnt any or enough diesel getting to the pump

(Working on assumption,there is diesel in this)

Starts when it's tapped he said

Sugarbowl

Yeah it does start when tapped or play around with the stopper gets it going. Fuel filter recently changed. I’ll take ye’re suggestions back and see how it goes. Thanks

emaherx

mickdw wrote: »

Isnt the 390 stopper an electrical one with a solenoid doing the movement at the pump as opposed to the manual stopper of older models?
If so it worth checking wiring.

No.
Not unless the very last of them were.

mickdw

emaherx wrote: »

No.
Not unless the very last of them were.

Last 399 i saw had a solenoid. Dont know about 390

RandomViewer

mickdw wrote: »

Last 399 i saw had a solenoid. Dont know about 390

Think it's the same pump as 590 and 290, they have manual stopper,

emaherx

mickdw wrote: »

Last 399 i saw had a solenoid. Dont know about 390

I've had a 1992 390 and I have a 1990 365 and a 1994 390T none of them have solonide. Plus the OP has described a pull stopper so I'm sure there is no solonide.

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Would ye not check are fuel filters etc blocked first

Talks of ripping off pump/checking wiring is all pointless,if there isnt any or enough diesel getting to the pump

(Working on assumption,there is diesel in this)

He has described a fairly common issue that happens to CAV pumps, tapping on pump or wriggling the stopper would not help a tractor with a blocked filter start.

It's definitely not an electrical issue as there is none involved.

doyleshill

That sounds like an injector pump issue if its the same as a MF 290

emaherx

emaherx wrote: »

He has described a fairly common issue that happens to CAV pumps, tapping on pump or wriggling the stopper would not help a tractor with a blocked filter start.

It's definitely not an electrical issue as there is none involved.

Theres nothing in there,that tapping/wriggling stopper will fix!!


Though he could take,off the top piece and see are linkages moving for the stopper rail


Sounds to me,assuming good flow of diesel to pump,(is there a lift pump??)that its losing pressure when parked up

TPF2012

On related issue, my 390 stopper cable broke, is it difficult to replace with new cable?

emaherx

TPF2012 wrote: »

On related issue, my 390 stopper cable broke, is it difficult to replace with new cable?

No, its very straight forward.

emaherx

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Theres nothing in there,that tapping/wriggling stopper will fix!!


Though he could take,off the top piece and see are linkages moving for the stopper rail


Sounds to me,assuming good flow of diesel to pump,(is there a lift pump??)that its losing pressure when parked up

It's a very common issue that I have experienced myself with a CAV pump in a 3cx. Just google "sticking stopper on CAV injector pump" and you will find lots of examples of people with exactly same issue where engine will start after gently tapping side of cover.

Yes cover can be removed very carefully with pump in place. I'd recommend at least watching some videos on YouTube on how to do it as there are some linkages which need disconnecting while disassembling. And also need to take note as there are a few connection options for the linkages depending on the engine. Probably a good time to order a gasket and seal kit to do a mini overhaul.

Sugarbowl

Thanks for all the suggestions guys. I’ll pass them along. Neither of us are very mechanical minded so appreciate the help. It’s a 80s model but in good condition and minded.

TPF2012

emaherx wrote: »

No, its very straight forward.

I will give it at myself then. 1 handbrake cable also need replacing, looks to be a trickier proposition.

Bass Reeves

Has the 390 a steel diesel tank.

I had the same problem with a 375. Sometimes if there is a bit of water in the diesel it may have formed a piece of ice just inide the place the stopper is connected to tractor. Inside if injection pump is all bits and pieces so not a job you would chance unless you had opened one before. Frosty nights may have formed a piece of ice which may have caused your friend's problem

I got the injector pump reconditioned in the end. It about 8 years ago so working from memory. It's easy enough, you mark both the pump and the engine where they are connected, also the injector's so you know for reconnection. On my case lad who reconditioned the pump told me to get the diesel tank cleaned and all filters replaced as well. Tank was a steel one.

When you replace the injection pump if the tractor is a bit rough, you may have to slightly adjust the pump slightly.

orm0nd

TPF2012 wrote: »

I will give it at myself then. 1 handbrake cable also need replacing, looks to be a trickier proposition.

There's a chap in Dublin that repairs old cables as good as new at a fraction of the cost.

cablecraft.ie

(01) 4588688

Sugarbowl

Yes the tractor does have a solenoid.

Steel tank as well.

The glass jar below the filter has been filling rather fast lately - with a kinda dirty/gunky liquid. Used to drain that out the little key at the bottom but would be filling away again in no time. Maybe that has some connection to it too.

Very good I think we have narrowed it down to problem with pump. Will get someone with more knowledge to have a look. Don’t think either of us would attempt to open one.

Thanks again everyone for the help!

Sugarbowl

Sugarbowl wrote: »

Yes the tractor does have a solenoid.

Steel tank as well.

The glass jar below the filter has been filling rather fast lately - with a kinda dirty/gunky liquid. Used to drain that out the little key at the bottom but would be filling away again in no time. Maybe that has some connection to it too.

Very good I think we have narrowed it down to problem with pump. Will get someone with more knowledge to have a look. Don’t think either of us would attempt to open one.

Thanks again everyone for the help!

The gunk in the glass bowl is water,get it out,and change filters again,if it keeps happening take off tank and steamwash,then let it dry


If that gets into your pump,its fcuked.

patsy_mccabe

Tell him to keep the diesel tank filled up at all times. When tanks run low, there is more of the inner tank metal exposed to the air and therefore more condensation forms. Diesel is lighter than water, so the water will always go to the bottom. The glass bowl in the Lift Pump, is there to catch that water (and dirt).
I wouldn't go opening the injector pump. The linkages in there have to go back on exactly the same way.
My injector pump was leaking a small bit of diesel underneath at a turn screw. When my mechanic told me what had to be done, I let him at it. Most jobs I would have a go at, but not this one.