Ancient Storage Heater Replacements

Inviere

Hi folks,

Family member with a few ancient storage heaters in a house wants to look at upgrade options. These heaters are nearly 30 years old I believe, so they're well past their sell by date. I've looked briefly online, and see the following options:

1) Replace old with new - Dimplex Quantums. They seem to be well regarded in terms of efficiency and level of control.

2) Air to Air Pump - Seems a nice option, but from what I can gather, this option requires radiators & plumbing to be fit? Similarly, with a pump running outside of the night-saver rate, will there be any gains here overall? The house is nicely plastered & painted by now, so running pipes around isn't ideal...but if there's significant savings to be made, it can be considered.

3) Gas/Oil - same as above, really want to avoid pulling the house apart to fit piping, so these likely aren't an option.

What's the general consensus folks?

headtheball14

Air to air doesn't require radiators and plumbing its air to water that does. It's a quick install. Works for specific situations . I have it haven't got rod of my storage heater yet but didn't use them over the winter. Running costs ok.
What type of house is it?

Inviere

headtheball14 wrote: »

Air to air doesn't require radiators and plumbing its air to water that does. It's a quick install. Works for specific situations . I have it haven't got rod of my storage heater yet but didn't use them over the winter. Running costs ok.
What type of house is it?

Oh really? I've obviously read something wrong so

Can I ask, how the air to air system works in the sense of individual rooms?

It's a city suburb house built in the 50's, attached both sides, two bedroom.

Alf Veedersane

Inviere wrote: »

Oh really? I've obviously read something wrong so

Can I ask, how the air to air system works in the sense of individual rooms?

It's a city suburb house built in the 50's, attached both sides, two bedroom.

Air to water is where energy is taken from the air and used to heat water for circulation around radiators (and/or underfloor heating circuit).

Air to air is where the air is heated and 'blown' into the room. Not like a fan heater or anything...just introducing warm air into the room is probably a better description.

The outdoor unit with the fan that you might be familiar with is connected to indoor units in the different spaces and they control the temperature in that space.

Inviere

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Air to water is where energy is taken from the air and used to heat water for circulation around radiators (and/or underfloor heating circuit).

Air to air is where the air is heated and 'blown' into the room. Not like a fan heater or anything...just introducing warm air into the room is probably a better description.

The outdoor unit with the fan that you might be familiar with is connected to indoor units in the different spaces and they control the temperature in that space.

Cheers for that

So in terms of an Air to Air system, there'd be:

The external converter unit on the back of the house
A unit in each of the desired rooms to provide warm air

^^ How is the heat from the external unit transferred around the house to the indoor units though?

Alf Veedersane

Inviere wrote: »

Cheers for that

So in terms of an Air to Air system, there'd be:

The external converter unit on the back of the house
A unit in each of the desired rooms to provide warm air

^^ How is the heat from the external unit transferred around the house to the indoor units though?

An example of the set up would be that the outside unit is the evaporator is in the outside unit and the gas is sent to the indoor units to be compressed and heat the air which is circulated by a fan.

I'm simplifying it a little but basically the gas is compressed (heated) in the indoor unit.

ted1

headtheball14 wrote: »

Air to air doesn't require radiators and plumbing its air to water that does. It's a quick install. Works for specific situations . I have it haven't got rod of my storage heater yet but didn't use them over the winter. Running costs ok.
What type of house is it?

How does an A2A perform
In an old house that wouldn’t be air right ? I imagine a storage heater would be the better option

Inviere

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

An example of the set up would be that the outside unit is the evaporator is in the outside unit and the gas is sent to the indoor units to be compressed and heat the air which is circulated by a fan.

I'm simplifying it a little but basically the gas is compressed (heated) in the indoor unit.

So there are gas pipes that have to be fit around the various rooms?

Alf Veedersane

Inviere wrote: »

So there are gas pipes that have to be fit around the various rooms?

The outdoor unit needs to be connected to the indoor unit(s).

Inviere

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

The outdoor unit needs to be connected to the indoor unit(s).

Yeah that much I figured, initially I thought it was heating water but it's gas instead. I'm put off by the thoughts of piping, as all the walls in the house have already been plastered etc not too long ago, so looking to avoid an installation that means making holes in walls etc. That's what led me to feeling going with more modern storage heating might be the best way to go given all of that...

Roadtoad

Ancient heaters are not fundamentally any more/less efficient than newer ones. The leakage control and timer control should be better on the newer ones.

Consider getting a BER survey, to see where the heat losses are: doors, windows, attic, water heating, chimneys etc. This may present a clearer path to thermal improvements.

If you are helping an older friend it may not be economically sensible to do a big job on their penny, but rather delay a proper project for a younger crew! The 'dogs boxxix' of a solution is very disruptive on the fabric/decoration of a mid terrace house.

More details of the house/resident profile would help.

Inviere

Roadtoad wrote: »

Ancient heaters are not fundamentally any more/less efficient than newer ones. The leakage control and timer control should be better on the newer ones.

Fundamentally no, but given their age, how likely is it they've retained their efficiency? Also as you say, it'd be nice to have some flexibility in terms of control...those older ones literally have two dials, input and output.

Consider getting a BER survey, to see where the heat losses are: doors, windows, attic, water heating, chimneys etc. This may present a clearer path to thermal improvements.

The house is fairly well insulated I'd say. There's insulated plaster-boarding at the front of the house, fairly modern doors, double glazed windows all over, attic insulated (it's always the last house on the block to keep snow on the roof). There's no water heating installed, but there is a small iron burner in the living room which is exhausting through the chimney (around the entry to chimney is insulated if I recall). So I suppose the idea is less so to eliminate any problems as there aren't many, but just strive to improve efficiency and lower costs.

If you are helping an older friend it may not be economically sensible to do a big job on their penny, but rather delay a proper project for a younger crew! The 'dogs boxxix' of a solution is very disruptive on the fabric/decoration of a mid terrace house.

More details of the house/resident profile would help.

It's a mid-terrace house, two bed, fairly well moderenised considering it was built in the 50's I think. Occupants are ~60...not sure what else I can say.

Alf Veedersane

As far as I can tell, the Quantum is just a storage heater where you can control the output to a greater degree because it retains the heat for longer. So, I think you can set a profile for when you want it to release more or less heat.

Roadtoad

Inviere wrote: »

It's a mid-terrace house, two bed, fairly well modernised considering it was built in the 50's I think. Occupants are ~60...not sure what else I can say.

I'd say from here:
Get quotes for new storage heaters and an air to air system. Investigate the stove, see if its an air robber, whether its hot or cold (draughts past the door and flue gaps). I'd rule out air to water or gas to water, as a whole piping upgrade seems outside your interest.
The specifics of the air system is outside my knowledge, I'd be asking about performance fall-off in a worst case situation. I'd hate to have full tariff electricity as my plan B.

People in their 60s have a lot of living to do, and deserve a comfortable den.

ercork

I got an air to air installed a couple of years ago - am very happy with it so far. I can send you on the details of the companies that I got quotes from if you want.

Inviere

ercork wrote: »

I got an air to air installed a couple of years ago - am very happy with it so far. I can send you on the details of the companies that I got quotes from if you want.

Certainly, please do, & thanks

headtheball14

My house is small and quite open plan, that works ok with air to air as the air blows through and rises up to heat up stairs, I’m also out of the house during day and will be for next few years.
In this case if the house is not too open plan and residents there quite a bit during day then storage heaters would probably be the best option and most like standard heating . You could upgrade them to get more control ability