Mechanic taking the p£ss? Advice?

gmannix1000

Hi All,

Just wondering if anyone has any advice. My 13 Audi A6 had some trouble at the end of March and brought it to a nearby mechanic to fix. Basically some lights were coming on in the dash (Stabilization control fault, Tire pressure, system fault, Steering system fault, Parking brake fault) and the car wouldn't start each time for a day or so. Could get one drive out of it and that would be it for a couple of days.

Now the mechanic has had the car for four weeks, (due to being frontline), and I keep in contact every few days and he keeps saying hes still looking at it, had to get the ECB checked by someone else etc. Told him that I definitely needed it back on Monday coming two weeks ago. Today he told me that he has no idea whats wrong with the car and it might take another week and he might have to send it to another garage to try and fix it.

Am seriously pissed off after being told this after four weeks and the fact it could take another week. Surely he would have known after 1 week, maybe 2, what needed to be done to the car to have it sorted.

Has anyone been in this situation before?

mickdw

It tricky times.
Some of these garages would use an external electrical technician. They wouldnt be working now so while he may have been able to sort your car in normal times, he could be snookered now.

SCOOP 64

He doesn't know how to fix it, so sending on to other garage, don't say much him, you need a new mechanic ,don't understand why it took 4 weeks to tell you this, garages are opening back up Monday ,if not done in a week collect it and take it somewhere else.

gmannix1000

Just annoyed that I told him it's important I have the car back by Monday after four weeks and now he tells me it won't be ready and it'll take more time.

I can't even take the car away because he has it on a lift and pieces out of the engine.

Am half worried he's going to charge me a fortune also!

saabsaab

Had a similar experience once. Took ages didn't get it fixed properly in the end. Just get it somewhere else asap.


I know that a person that had similar problems and the dealer diagnostic wasn't able to pinpoint the issue(s) but still charged over 100 for this! Car was taken to an old style mechanic who witihn an hour found loose connections to the starter and ignition. These were fixed and no problems since.

Toyotafanboi

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

He doesn't know how to fix it, so sending on to other garage, don't say much him, you need a new mechanic.

Agreed. He either isn't looking at it or he doesn't know how to fix it.

kirving

Main dealer, or Audi/VW specialist with full diagnostic software is the only place for it.

Very likely all symptoms caused by the same issue.

kirving

Main dealer, or Audi/VW specialist with full diagnostic software is the only place for it.

Very likely all symptoms caused by the same issue.

saabsaab

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Main dealer, or Audi/VW specialist with full diagnostic software is the only place for it.

Very likely all symptoms caused by the same issue.

Probably.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Just take it off him and bring it to a main dealer, these random electrical issues can be impossible to track down with the right diagnostics and experiance. If he is just guessing you will get stung as he randomly changes parts in the fault list the computer spits out until he hits the right one. Its a fairly new car no point messing around.

saabsaab

Muhammad Rapping Vogue wrote: »

Just take it off him and bring it to a main dealer, these random electrical issues can be impossible to track down with the right diagnostics and experiance. If he is just guessing you will get stung as he randomly changes parts in the fault list the computer spits out until he hits the right one. Its a fairly new car no point messing around.

True enough.



I brought a car to the main dealer for a fault after a day they told me it could be one of three faults and recommended replacing the items concerned at great cost. Even at that they couldn't say if it would fix it! So I said no way.


I got the main suspect part replacement second hand and fitted it myself problem solved at a fraction of the cost quoted.

Car99

Muhammad Rapping Vogue wrote: »

Just take it off him and bring it to a main dealer, these random electrical issues can be impossible to track down with the right diagnostics and experiance. If he is just guessing you will get stung as he randomly changes parts in the fault list the computer spits out until he hits the right one. Its a fairly new car no point messing around.

Main dealers dont have extra special genius software either they just charge more to use it. The car is a 7 year old Audi most mechanics will have the same code reading software available to them , you can even buy it from Ross tech yourself if you want it or a copy of same for €40.
Modern cars with electrical gremlins need a good auto electrican to look at the car . Could be bad earths, loose connections not just the faults the computers throw up.

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Car99 wrote: »

Main dealers dont have extra special genius software either they just charge more to use it. The car is a 7 year old Audi most mechanics will have the same code reading software available to them , you can even buy it from Ross tech yourself if you want it or a copy of same for €40.
Modern cars with electrical gremlins need a good auto electrican to look at the car . Could be bad earths, loose connections not just the faults the computers throw up.

thats why I said experiance too. Its not that an indy cant do this, its that the OP has an indy that cant do this. Dealer is an expensive but safe bet.

saabsaab

Car99 wrote: »

Main dealers dont have extra special genius software either they just charge more to use it. The car is a 7 year old Audi most mechanics will have the same code reading software available to them , you can even buy it from Ross tech yourself if you want it or a copy of same for €40.
Modern cars with electrical gremlins need a good auto electrican to look at the car . Could be bad earths, loose connections not just the faults the computers throw up.

Could be this the fault codes won't really help in that situation.

Toyotafanboi

Car99 wrote: »

Main dealers dont have extra special genius software either they just charge more to use it. The car is a 7 year old Audi most mechanics will have the same code reading software available to them , you can even buy it from Ross tech yourself if you want it or a copy of same for €40.
Modern cars with electrical gremlins need a good auto electrican to look at the car . Could be bad earths, loose connections not just the faults the computers throw up.

That's not strictly true though either, lots of local mechanics have crap enough software suites or scan tools. Having detailed enough software to be useful for multiple brands can be very very expensive too much so for smaller operations.

Main dealers also have the added experience of just working with one brand and brand familiarity can be a big help, access to the brands known common faults and fixes and live access to factory level technical support. Access to wiring diagrams, parts diagrams etc etc, there's more to fault finding than pulling the codes.

Sure you've got some good specialised independents but a lot can be hit and miss. If this fella isn't a "specialist" and has had it for more than a day or two, he's at nothing.

kirving

Car99 wrote: »

Main dealers dont have extra special genius software either they just charge more to use it. The car is a 7 year old Audi most mechanics will have the same code reading software available to them , you can even buy it from Ross tech yourself if you want it or a copy of same for €40.
Modern cars with electrical gremlins need a good auto electrican to look at the car . Could be bad earths, loose connections not just the faults the computers throw up.

The current mechanic clearly hasn't got the tools or experience to diagnose the problem.

The dealer, or specialist as I said, has far more ability to lay their hand on any tool they can think of to solve the problem.

I work for an automotive electronics manufacturer, some of the latest ECU's can detect and report wiring shorts and loose connections, and have hundreds of possible error codes, which can be read with the correct hardware.

I'm far from being pro-dealer in all circumstances, and do all that I can myself, but some point you have to cut your losses and go directly to the professionals.

tweaf1

I'd suggest looking at the battery first if it's throwing up various electrical faults.

gmannix1000

Thanks all for the advice. Getting the car towed to the dealership tomorrow. Appreciate all the advice.

saabsaab

Best of luck. Let us know what it turns out to be in the end.

Seth Brundle

Has the mechanic put all the bits back together again or are they in a box in the boot?

gmannix1000

Just told him to have the car outside and ready to be towed for 10am tomorrow morning. Hoping he doesn't pull a stunt and just throw everything into the boot. He'd be a complete d^&k to do something like that?!

corks finest

gmannix1000 wrote: »

Thanks all for the advice. Getting the car towed to the dealership tomorrow. Appreciate all the advice.

Good luck

TheBoyConor

Did he ask you for money?

If I was you I'd be asking for my car to be outside as you say and if he mentioned at bill I wouldn't give a shít, I'd fúck him out of it to high heaven and call him every name.

Stallingrad

A proper diagnostic should have pointed toward the problem, which as said could all be down to one issue. Given that the car won't statr it may well be just a dud battery throwing up all those faults. My Passat dash lit up like a Christmas tree a few years ago and it was just a €90 speed sensor that was at fault, so with any luck this will not be an expensive fix.

Toyotafanboi

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Did he ask you for money?

If I was you I'd be asking for my car to be outside as you say and if he mentioned at bill I wouldn't give a shít, I'd fúck him out of it to high heaven and call him every name.

Bit extreme. He's only trying to make a living, at least he could accept it was over his head.

TheBoyConor

Well that is it like, it is more than likely a realtively cheap fix once identified. However the problem is finding the fault. For some reason car ECUs seem to have bizzare OBD responses to faults in seemingly unrelated sytems. For example, a speed sensor fault triggering fault codes in the braking system or emissions control system. Or a faulty battery triggering fault codes related to the handbrake or camshaft position.
Often diagnostic codes are wildly inaccurate and misleading.

Toyotafanboi

TheBoyConor wrote: »

For some reason car ECUs seem to have bizzare OBD responses to faults in seemingly unrelated sytems. Often diagnostic codes are wildly inaccurate and misleading.

That might be the case for have a go hero's with rubbish equipment but I would say that's rarely or never the case for a skilled mechanic with the proper tools.

kirving

TheBoyConor wrote: »

For some reason car ECUs seem to have bizzare OBD responses to faults in seemingly unrelated sytems. For example, a speed sensor fault triggering fault codes in the braking system or emissions control system. ......

Often diagnostic codes are wildly inaccurate and misleading.

Well, the main reason for individual wheel speed sensors at all, is to feed info to the ABS ECU.

Car systems are far more interlinked than most people would imagine. Reversing cameras talking to the steering top column module is one example, but did you know that the camera can also take in suspension height and wheel fitment in some cars?

Fault codes are fantastic, but must be treated with a healthy dose of caution and time taken to interpret their meaning rather than blindly replacing the part because 'the computer told you to".

How many times have we seen posters, and equally mechanics, replacing part after part in persuit of a problem that was down to something entirely different?

Just like Google Maps can lead an artic truck down a farm track, blindly following fault codes is dangerous, and is no replacement for basic testing and debug skills.

Nowadays, you can of course have incredibly tricky issues with multiple frequencies running on the same wire for example. Damaged sheilding for example could be an absolute nightmare to try and debug - some functions work fine, others don't at all, wire buzzes out fine, resistance is okay, but loads of error codes.

zilog_jones

TheBoyConor wrote: »

For some reason car ECUs seem to have bizzare OBD responses to faults in seemingly unrelated sytems. For example, a speed sensor fault triggering fault codes in the braking system...

How is a wheel speed sensor "seemingly unrelated" to the braking system?

PukkaStukka

zilog_jones wrote: »

How is a wheel speed sensor "seemingly unrelated" to the braking system?

Absolutely spot on with that Zilog

I've a question for the boy Connor. Now I'm not trolling but this fault is intesting and I would appreciate your opinion:

2016 Hyundai Tucson simultaneously displayed ABS, Traction Control, tyre pressure monitor and power steering warning lights. Power steering assistance was also poor when driving.

What do you think the cause was ??

kirving

All of those rely on inputs from the wheel speed sensor, so likely to be that, but could be anything from a low battery to an internal timing chip on the Body Control ECU.

whippet

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Absolutely spot on with that Zilog

I've a question for the boy Connor. Now I'm not trolling but this fault is intesting and I would appreciate your opinion:

2016 Hyundai Tucson simultaneously displayed ABS, Traction Control, tyre pressure monitor and power steering warning lights. Power steering assistance was also poor when driving.

What do you think the cause was ??

I’m not mechanic - but I’d guess at a fault ABS sensor

PukkaStukka

whippet wrote: »

I’m not mechanic - but I’d guess at a fault ABS sensor

Not quite but you're very much on the right track though. The cause was damage to the cable to the front left ABS sensor. There were only two wires in it and one had split, possibly from minor accident damage.

The point of mentioning these faults in my previous post was to demonstrate the dependency of multiple systems on the same sensor(s). If that sensor goes rogue for whatever reason, we can see the faults I described, some of which would outwardly appear be unconnected with it. But there is a common denominator across all of these and that's the requirement for these systems to know the wheel speed on all corners. Its not just road speed for the speedometer, but ABS actuation, stability and traction control, the level of assistance produced by the power steering motor and so on.

Or in other words, those systems which put their warning lights on that I previously mentioned.

colm_mcm

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Absolutely spot on with that Zilog

I've a question for the boy Connor. Now I'm not trolling but this fault is intesting and I would appreciate your opinion:

2016 Hyundai Tucson simultaneously displayed ABS, Traction Control, tyre pressure monitor and power steering warning lights. Power steering assistance was also poor when driving.

What do you think the cause was ??

I’d suspect the battery or alternator

coolisin

Had the same faults throw up on my 13 Audi A4 was the battery on the way out, after the car was not driven for a couple of weeks.
Got the battery replaced and my faults went away, but next step was a wheel speed sensor.

teediddlyeye

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Not quite but you're very much on the right track though. The cause was damage to the cable to the front left ABS sensor. There were only two wires in it and one had split, possibly from minor accident damage.

The point of mentioning these faults in my previous post was to demonstrate the dependency of multiple systems on the same sensor(s). If that sensor goes rogue for whatever reason, we can see the faults I described, some of which would outwardly appear be unconnected with it. But there is a common denominator across all of these and that's the requirement for these systems to know the wheel speed on all corners. Its not just road speed for the speedometer, but ABS actuation, stability and traction control, the level of assistance produced by the power steering motor and so on.

Or in other words, those systems which put their warning lights on that I previously mentioned.

This highlights the importance of knowing what you're looking at when interpreting diagnostics and using the correct equipment.

It's easy to connect a cheap obd reader and see faults for x,y,z control units and then assume you've 7 different issues and fire up the parts cannon.

Likely you'll have several communication faults with everything connected to the abs, but the abs will show open circuit on speed sensor. Fred in the shed or a have a go hero with his elm237 may struggle a bit here!

PukkaStukka

Did anybody PROPERLY read my post to see what the cause was? I'm having a good old laugh here because I'm seeing a few comments that seem to suggest what the problem might be after I've said what it was.

The post above has been edited to highlight the cause

colm_mcm

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Did anybody PROPERLY read my post to see what the cause was? I'm having a good old laugh here because I'm seeing a few comments that seem to suggest what the problem might be after I've said what it was.

The post above has been edited to highlight the cause

Try changing the battery and come back to us.

fatbhoy

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Absolutely spot on with that Zilog

I've a question for the boy Connor. Now I'm not trolling but this fault is intesting and I would appreciate your opinion:

2016 Hyundai Tucson simultaneously displayed ABS, Traction Control, tyre pressure monitor and power steering warning lights. Power steering assistance was also poor when driving.

What do you think the cause was ??

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Not quite but you're very much on the right track though. The cause was damage to the cable to the front left ABS sensor. There were only two wires in it and one had split, possibly from minor accident damage.

The point of mentioning these faults in my previous post was to demonstrate the dependency of multiple systems on the same sensor(s). If that sensor goes rogue for whatever reason, we can see the faults I described, some of which would outwardly appear be unconnected with it. But there is a common denominator across all of these and that's the requirement for these systems to know the wheel speed on all corners. Its not just road speed for the speedometer, but ABS actuation, stability and traction control, the level of assistance produced by the power steering motor and so on.

Or in other words, those systems which put their warning lights on that I previously mentioned.

PukkaStukka wrote: »

Did anybody PROPERLY read my post to see what the cause was? I'm having a good old laugh here because I'm seeing a few comments that seem to suggest what the problem might be after I've said what it was.

The post above has been edited to highlight the cause

Why don't you create your own thread and derail that?

PukkaStukka

fatbhoy wrote: »

Why don't you create your own thread and derail that?

my comments were light-hearted in response to previous comments. Nobody detailed anything

gmannix1000

Hi All, relay under the dash needed to be replaced and needed a new battery! Thankfully affordable for me!! Thanks for all your help!

Stallingrad

gmannix1000 wrote: »

Hi All, relay under the dash needed to be replaced and needed a new battery! Thankfully affordable for me!! Thanks for all your help!

Result. What did it cost?

gmannix1000

330 including diagnostic, not including towing!

kirving

Glad to hear it was a cut and dry problem in the end. Relays can stick-on, which could cause damage to other components down the line, but this is unlikely.

If it were a fuse, it may have be a random failure, but equally could have been caused by a short elsewhere which would also need to be tracked down.

I wouldn't necessarily hold it against your first mechanic either - he should have seen it, but the simple things can fall to the back of your mind when you're bombarded by fault codes.