Barbecues on Balconies

Caranica

Just looking for some thoughts on this. Our development has a variety of balcony sizes, some are room size or bigger, some are coffin sized (forgive the analogy but in terms of length and width it's pretty much spot on) and some are somewhere in between. The development is heading for 20 years old.

An owner has brought up fire safety concerns after a neighbour with a coffin sized balcony had a charcoal barbecue and ash and coals were being blown at the building and neighbouring units. Given that a fire in a development a few km away was traced back to a barbecue, they are concerned about the safety. Our management agent is vehemently against barbecues and wants us to bring in a rule at the next AGM.

I get what they're saying, but think it's going to be very hard to turn around to people after the guts of two decades and tell them they now can't have barbecues. Some people have gas ones that cost several hundred euro. At the same time, I know there are fire hazards. We can't bring in a rule that says only certain sized units can have barbecues, or that only gas barbecues are allowed.

The large balconies were huge selling points for the units that have them, they are at least 5m x 3m with one being at least twice that size so having people over for a barbecue would be fairly common with loads of room for cooking and seating.

Has anyone experienced a no barbecue rule or had it brought in in their development? I think there would be massive kickback against this and compliance would be a huge issue.

BrokenArrows

Caranica wrote: »

Just looking for some thoughts on this. Our development has a variety of balcony sizes, some are room size or bigger, some are coffin sized (forgive the analogy but in terms of length and width it's pretty much spot on) and some are somewhere in between. The development is heading for 20 years old.

An owner has brought up fire safety concerns after a neighbour with a coffin sized balcony had a charcoal barbecue and ash and coals were being blown at the building and neighbouring units. Given that a fire in a development a few km away was traced back to a barbecue, they are concerned about the safety. Our management agent is vehemently against barbecues and wants us to bring in a rule at the next AGM.

I get what they're saying, but think it's going to be very hard to turn around to people after the guts of two decades and tell them they now can't have barbecues. Some people have gas ones that cost several hundred euro. At the same time, I know there are fire hazards. We can't bring in a rule that says only certain sized units can have barbecues, or that only gas barbecues are allowed.

The large balconies were huge selling points for the units that have them, they are at least 5m x 3m with one being at least twice that size so having people over for a barbecue would be fairly common with loads of room for cooking and seating.

Has anyone experienced a no barbecue rule or had it brought in in their development? I think there would be massive kickback against this and compliance would be a huge issue.

Meet them half way. No coal BBQs. Gas only.

wandererz

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Meet them half way. No coal BBQs. Gas only.

Yep. Done this last year.

emeldc

Maybe an owner would invest in a gas bbq but you can be fairly sure a tenant won’t. How would you police it. Also if a BBQ goes on fire on a balcony and the fire brigade are called Most of the damage is done to the apartment below with the reservoir of water that will be dumped on the fire. Just like my ground floor apartment a couple of years ago. Little or no damage done upstairs, nearly €20k done to mine.

PhilOssophy

Plenty of things were OK 20 years ago but now aren't. Most of it for the common good. Thankfully. Suck it up.
Also you can point to the other development which had a fire caused by a BBQ. If I was a resident, I'd be kicking up about it too if I thought my apartment could go up in smoke over a BBQ.

Pkiernan

BBQs in apartment balconies is a mornoic idea.

Only in Ireland.

Tails142

Unless it's a big balcony it doesn't seem like a good idea to me, and never a coal bbq, way too much smoke when they are getting going. So I would think gas only but they can be fire risk too with build up of grease. Whole thing seems a bit anti social to me.

For reference, I feel bad lighting my coal bbq out the back of my 400 sqm back garden sometimes due to smoke blowing into neighbors gardens, towards houses with open windows etc.

colm_mcm

That’s mental, I can’t believe anyone would do that, if the house next door to me has a barbecue it stinks out any rooms with open windows, I can only imagine how bad it would be if there was one right downstairs

Electric Sheep

Caranica wrote: »

Just looking for some thoughts on this. Our development has a variety of balcony sizes, some are room size or bigger, some are coffin sized (forgive the analogy but in terms of length and width it's pretty much spot on) and some are somewhere in between. The development is heading for 20 years old.

An owner has brought up fire safety concerns after a neighbour with a coffin sized balcony had a charcoal barbecue and ash and coals were being blown at the building and neighbouring units. Given that a fire in a development a few km away was traced back to a barbecue, they are concerned about the safety. Our management agent is vehemently against barbecues and wants us to bring in a rule at the next AGM.

I get what they're saying, but think it's going to be very hard to turn around to people after the guts of two decades and tell them they now can't have barbecues. Some people have gas ones that cost several hundred euro. At the same time, I know there are fire hazards. We can't bring in a rule that says only certain sized units can have barbecues, or that only gas barbecues are allowed.

The large balconies were huge selling points for the units that have them, they are at least 5m x 3m with one being at least twice that size so having people over for a barbecue would be fairly common with loads of room for cooking and seating.

Has anyone experienced a no barbecue rule or had it brought in in their development? I think there would be massive kickback against this and compliance would be a huge issue.

30 years of apartment living in the US. Never heard of any buildings that allow barbecuing on the balcony/terrace. I would imagine it is a huge insurance no go.

I can't even imagine anyone thinking that would be OK.

mulbot

When I lived in a Canada, you would see most apartments had BBQ's on the balconies

Chris_5339762

We had BBQs on (wooden) balconies a lot in my complex whenever the weather was nice. Approaching owners to kindly ask them not to was meant with a slightly ruder version of "mind your own business". The management company weren't motivated to do anything either and I didn't have the power to force a change.

I hated it. Utterly stupid.

L1011

This is what happens if you allow them, eventually.

If residents are that determined to have them, find a suitable location on the grounds and slab it.

Ronaldinho

mulbot wrote: »

When I lived in a Canada, you would see most apartments had BBQ's on the balconies

The Irish abroad :pac:

PokeHerKing

Pkiernan wrote: »

BBQs in apartment balconies is a mornoic idea.

Only in Ireland.

Yes, only in Ireland would people have a bbq on a balcony...

Toots

The development where I used to live supposedly had a no BBQ rule... just about every apartment had a bbq on the balcony. If you walked through the complex on a sunny evening, it would be like some sort of food festival with all the cooking aromas wafting around. The rule was never actually enforced. Management agent would send round an email/leaflet every so often saying no BBQs and that they would confiscate any they saw but nothing was ever done. I suspect they wanted to be seen to be doing something because they started mentioning it after that block burnt down in Blanchardstown a few years ago. I lived in my apartment for about 8 years before we heard the rule, and when I enquired with the management agent they told me it was on page "X" of the leasehold agreement, but it actually wasn't. There was no mention of BBQs anywhere, the only thing close was a part stating that gas canisters needed to be stored appropriately. I had a gas BBQ, not because of fire safety concerns, but because I didn't want smoke from a charcoal BBQ blowing into my apartment and in on top of the neighbours either.

I think if you were to bring in a no BBQ rule, the suggestion of gas or electric only is a good compromise.

Murph_D

Have lived in a few apartment complexes abroad with common BBQ areas in the grounds. Balcony a terrible idea safety wise. Beggars belief. Mind you our BBQ culture only dates back to the Celtic Tiger so still learning. :rolleyes:

listermint

Murph_D wrote: »

Have lived in a few apartment complexes abroad with common BBQ areas in the grounds. Balcony a terrible idea safety wise. Beggars belief. Mind you our BBQ culture only dates back to the Celtic Tiger so still learning. :rolleyes:

Yes there was never BBQ before 2006.


FFS.

L1011

Murph_D wrote: »

Have lived in a few apartment complexes abroad with common BBQ areas in the grounds. Balcony a terrible idea safety wise. Beggars belief. Mind you our BBQ culture only dates back to the Celtic Tiger so still learning. :rolleyes:

I must be imagining using BBQs in the mid 1990s, then!

listermint

L1011 wrote: »

I must be imagining using BBQs in the mid 1990s, then!

I just be imagining selling them...

Caranica

Thanks for all the replies so far. A variety of experiences

Eric Cartman

listermint wrote: »

I just be imagining selling them...

I believe Bertie Ahern himself lit the first weber in Ireland in the phoenix park in 2005, having developed the idea after dropping a hot dog (which were previously eaten raw and cold at the time) upon a pile of burning receipts and account statements. Having collected the now charred hot frankfurter from the blaze he proclaimed it delicious, spurring a journey of culinary discovery only to discover, through the power of the internet, that the world had been doing this for years.

jd

Check out
1. The head lease.

2. The block insurance policy.

I think there was an issue last year in Santry where a BBQ on a balcony damaged an apartment above..

Sierra Oscar

BrokenArrows wrote: »

Meet them half way. No coal BBQs. Gas only.

Are residents permitted to have gas cylinders in the apartments?

Strictly forbidden in our development for insurance purposes. No storage of flammable / explosive materials within either the apartments or on the balconies on the insistence of the insurance provider. We've strict penalties for residents who breach the house rules on this. No other option really, there have been fire related issues in the past and insurance will be a serious problem if flammable / explosive materials exacerbate a fire.

Victor

L1011 wrote: »

I must be imagining using BBQs in the mid 1990s, then!

listermint wrote: »

I just be imagining selling them...

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I believe Bertie Ahern himself lit the first weber in Ireland in the phoenix park in 2005

You do realise that the Celtic Tiger started in 1993? The first recorded use of the phrase was in 1994.

https://twitter.com/DubFireBrigade/status/1138061022525370368

https://twitter.com/dubfirebrigade/status/1014116909766365184

duffman13

Lived in an apartment block in Australia and there were some huge balconies! Absolutely no bbqs allowed, the couple of developments i stayed in had communal BBQs on the rooftops or in common areas.

Something you unfortunately couldn't have here!

Cookie_Monster

Murph_D wrote: »

Have lived in a few apartment complexes abroad with common BBQ areas in the grounds. Balcony a terrible idea safety wise. Beggars belief.

it's hardly any different to having a cigarette on a balcony to be fair, have all these blocks also banned that?
:pac::pac::pac:

Pkiernan

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Yes, only in Ireland would people have a bbq on a balcony...

In normal 1st world countries communal bbqs are provided by the apartment complex, and private one prohibited.

Im surpirsed you cant see the dangers in having a bbq on every balcony.

Cuddlesworth

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

it's hardly any different to having a cigarette on a balcony to be fair, have all these blocks also banned that?
:pac::pac::pac:

Make sense, I mean the heat output of a cigarette butt compared to a charcoal bbq knocked over would be pretty much the same.

And of course if the apartment below went on fire, pretty good chance of the liquefied gases in your cigarette turning to a vapour while expanding, then erupting in a explosion of a force equivalent to a small bomb.

I think making a rule of gas only is a good one, who even bothers with real ones nowadays anyway as gas ones are far handier.

I don't really see much danger in a gas one they are very controlled and no chance of causing a fire imo.

Yet another reason to stay well clear of apartments though, you cant even have a bbq on a nice day without people losing it.

Kennedi Bewildered Invoice

Kennedi Bewildered Invoice wrote: »

I think making a rule of gas only is a good one, who even bothers with real ones nowadays anyway as gas ones are far handier.

Loads

Cuddlesworth

Kennedi Bewildered Invoice wrote: »

I don't really see much danger in a gas one they are very controlled and no chance of causing a fire imo.

Yet another reason to stay well clear of apartments though, you cant even have a bbq on a nice day without people losing it.

Very low risk of a fire but it helps to never underestimate the stupidity of people. Its not the risk of it causing a fire in the end though, its the risk of the canister exploding in a fire.

I would be surprised that the block insurance policy doesn't specifically ban them(balcony's are under the ownership of the management company usually). A simple letter stating that balcony owners would be liable for costs in the event of a fire would shut most of it down.

Eric Cartman

Kennedi Bewildered Invoice wrote: »

I think making a rule of gas only is a good one, who even bothers with real ones nowadays anyway as gas ones are far handier.

I don't really see much danger in a gas one they are very controlled and no chance of causing a fire imo.

Yet another reason to stay well clear of apartments though, you cant even have a bbq on a nice day without people losing it.

the flavour of charcoal always wins, gas is just using a grill outside, its the charcoal adds the flavour. I have a lot of Romanian and Polish friends, they would bbq a hell of a lot, its just a national obsession for them and charcoal is the only way , especially with wood chip smoking etc...

Brego888

Our country's obsession with the barbecue has always stumped me. Have a neighbour who spent the guts of a grand on one. Lucky if he uses it twice a year.

BailMeOut

Brego888 wrote: »

Our country's obsession with the barbecue has always stumped me. Have a neighbour who spent the guts of a grand on one. Lucky if he uses it twice a year.

BBQ's are not just for summer and should be an extension of your kitchen and used all year round. I have a EUR1000+ egg and it is on hail, rain or shine and even use it on Christmas day. Cooking meat (especially steak) indoors is disgusting as stinks up the house and taste better when done outdoors.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

You do realise that the Celtic Tiger started in 1993? The first recorded use of the phrase was in 1994.

Pretty much nobody uses it in the manner it was being used (sarcastic complaints about excess, consumerism etc) to mean anything before maybe 2002, though.

Here's a Woodies ad from 1992, if you really insist on 1993 being the cutoff though. Found Quinnsworth advertising both gas and charcoal in 1980; and I really can't be bothered going any earlier.

PhilOssophy

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

A simple letter stating that balcony owners would be liable for costs in the event of a fire would shut most of it down.

Good luck getting that money out of them! Irish people don't do personal responsibility.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

BailMeOut wrote: »

BBQ's are not just for summer and should be an extension of your kitchen and used all year round. I have a EUR1000+ egg and it is on hail, rain or shine and even use it on Christmas day. Cooking meat (especially steak) indoors is disgusting as stinks up the house and taste better when done outdoors.

Ah jaysus. Seriously? That’s ridiculous. There’ll be a smell for a brief time after dinner and that’s it. This thing that most people do every single day is disgusting? If you find the smell of cooked meat disgusting, how much do you even like the stuff?

Doop

Does anyone know if BBQs are specifically mentioned in some of the block insurance policys? and what happens if a fire subsequently is deemed to have been caused from a BBQ is the insurance then voided for that damage?

PhilOssophy

Doop wrote: »

Does anyone know if BBQs are specifically mentioned in some of the block insurance policys? and what happens if a fire subsequently is deemed to have been caused from a BBQ is the insurance then voided for that damage?

Don't know for sure, but I know 1 thing - if insurance companies can find a way to get out of paying out, they will....

BailMeOut

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Ah jaysus. Seriously? That’s ridiculous. There’ll be a smell for a brief time after dinner and that’s it. This thing that most people do every single day is disgusting? If you find the smell of cooked meat disgusting, how much do you even like the stuff?

I stand by my comments. To cook a steak properly you need a very hot pan which will results if fat and oils splatering all over the cooker leaving a god awful mess and a smell of for a few hours. If you have a BBQ outside your kitchen door why not use it and get value from the investment.

Victor

BailMeOut wrote: »

To cook a steak properly you need a very hot pan which will results if fat and oils splatering all over the cooker leaving a god awful mess and a smell of for a few hours.

You can get solid or mesh covers for frying pans and use an extractor fan.

L1011

Victor wrote: »

You can get solid or mesh covers for frying pans and use an extractor fan.

Which will help, a little. Its still going to be messy and very smelly.

A solid cover is a no-no though.

CollyFlower

Shouldn't be allowed, reckless behavior.
https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/barbecue-blaze-that-devastated-dublin-apartment-block-leaves-100-people-homeless-35706593.html

the_syco

mulbot wrote: »

When I lived in a Canada, you would see most apartments had BBQ's on the balconies

In Toronto, a lot of apartments forbid it as the heat would damage the balcony above. And this is in a place where the balconies reinforced concrete.

Most had a "communal" BBQ, that mainly the Irish & British would use. The Canadians would goto their "cottage" outside of the city limits for their BBQ's.

In Toronto, High Park had a few communal BBQ areas, and the Irish Twin Towers had some on the top of both of them.

Kennedi Bewildered Invoice wrote: »

I think making a rule of gas only is a good one, who even bothers with real ones nowadays anyway as gas ones are far handier.

BrownFinger wrote: »

Loads

The added disadvantage of the gas BBQ is that when not in use, it'll still take up space. A lot of the normal ones can be folded up; the gas ones not so much.

=-=

Our gas BBQ was sold last week, as it was used maybe twice in the few years! Much prefer the charcoal taste.

TBH IMO, gas BBQ is about showing off; the gas cooks the food, like the George would. Charcoal or wood BBQ adds flavour.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

BailMeOut wrote: »

I stand by my comments. To cook a steak properly you need a very hot pan which will results if fat and oils splatering all over the cooker leaving a god awful mess and a smell of for a few hours. If you have a BBQ outside your kitchen door why not use it and get value from the investment.

Oh look, I’m all for using BBQs all year round. I just object to the idea that meat cooking smells are gross. Maybe I’m weird though - pig’s liver cooking is one of my favourite smells. :pac: