RelationShip Pretty Much Done- Concerned About Daughter

LegacyUser

Folks,

I'm a long long time user of Boards but have decided to write this without a reg in case it were ever to get back to the missus.

I'll have been with my partner 16 years this Christmas. It's been mostly good, though looking back there were a lot of red flags that I should have noticed but didn't. She's always been a little difficult but when it's just the two of you, you manage. Fast forward a few years and we have a house now nearly a decade and we've a wonderful young daughter. Things started to get quite bad a few years back, not long after our daughter was born.

We had and still have some concerns about her health but from what I can gather and from what I know, it doesn't look anything overly concerning. She was a low muscle tone baby which has had some continuing effects. She's extremely bright, quick to learn and funny. My partner though from day one has fixated on the negative and has diagnosed her with every condition under the sun. First it was cerebral palsy, autism, ADHD and plenty more. Anyone know knows our daughter knows she has nothing like this. My partner however literally every day, every day talks about what's wrong. I feel we're missing out on what a wonderful child we have as this is a constant factor emanating from my other half.

When she was born I slept with her in the living room for 6 months and got up to feed her during the night as my partner couldn't cope with having her in the room with her- as she snored somewhat. That didn't bother me as up to that point I had already been sleeping on the sofa for about 18 months anyway. My partner suffered from insomnia, then needed her rest while pregnant so I slept on the sofa.

Add in that we have an issue with a neighbour which took the best part of 18 months to resolve through the courts. It was a very stressful time and frequently my partner couldn't sleep due to anxiety. Add that on top of her constant worrying over our daughter and it's not a healthy mix.
She also used to go to work 2/3 times in the evening and come home around 10pm. Having looked after our daughter all day, then having to go to work, then worrying about whether or not she'd get a night's sleep, well I believe it affected her nerves. She pretty much said this herself.

The last 18 months have quite frankly been incredibly difficult. She's lost her temper several times with our daughter (who is the sweetest little lady), even at one point walking out of bath time shouting at our daughter (she would have been 2) as washing her hair was not going well and involved some hysterics. She curses a lot around her and frequently belittles me in front of her or loses the temper with me. She's incredibly quick to lash out over nothing. Neighbours, friends and family know she's pretty unpleasant. She's threatened to take our daughter back to her home country at least twice. On another occasion while giving out to me she waived a large kitchen knife in my direction rather menacingly- while our daughter was at the table. There are many angry messages on WhatsApp including the odd 'I'll f*cking kill you'.... though she wouldn't of course.

I like to think of myself as easy going, considerate and empathetic. I come home early from work 2/3 days a week so she can go to her work. I get the little one to bed and then make dinner for the missus. I state all the time that the missus can have more time to herself and I'll look after our daughter while she does whatever she needs to do to unwind. She has only ever worked part time while I work full time.

For the last 9 years I've paid the mortgage and all the bills myself, utility, subscriptions, grocery etc. I get nothing from the missus as she is a better saver than I am and the plan was that she'd save so we could build a deposit for a new house. Money though isn't my concern.

My concern is this. I don't think this is a healthy relation for my daughter. I can't have her growing up thinking that this is an acceptable way to treat a man or indeed anyone. I feel that my partner is unable to control her emotions as she gets incredibly angry over nothing and frequently lashes out. I can't though just move out and leave my daughter to be raised by someone who is this volatile.

Is there any likelihood, any case to be made for my remaining in the house which to be fair I pay for and raising our daughter. I don't mind my partner having equal access and she can keep the not insubstantial amount of money in her account that belongs to both of us (we sold an apartment in her home country last year- which we both paid for). We're not married, simply living together so I'm aware my rights as far as the law stands are pretty much zero.

My first and only concerns are for my daughter.

Dial Hard

You're in an abusive relationship, OP, pure and simple. I think you owe it to yourself and your daughter to leave, although obviously I appreciate that's *far* easier said than done.

I think your first port of call should be a support group such as AMEN and your second should be a solicitor, just to start feeling out what your options/likely outcomes are should you decide to go down this road.

Whatever happens, I wish you the very best. You sound like an incredibly patient and caring man and father who, quite frankly, deserves better.

Emme

OP like the other poster said contact AMEN straight away. Also keep screenshots of abusive messages. If you separate the child would be better off with you.

seenitall

Hi OP,

By all means, contact AMEN to get some good advice on your next steps, but what I want to say to you is this: be very, very careful about what you do and what order you do it in. I am a non-national mother of an Irish child, and as far as I can see when travelling and crossing borders, there has never been anything stopping me from taking my daughter away from her father to my home country forever, if I'd wanted to (she shares my nationality, as well). Now, I don't know how you arm yourself against this happening, but getting some legal advice would be my first port of call.

The reason I'm saying this so urgently is that the situation you describe reads as potentially very volatile, as you seem to be in a relationship with a mentally unbalanced person, and that could spell danger, both to your daughter and yourself, or at least a great danger of your ex taking the child away as soon as she gets wind of you having had enough of this existence. I suspect she could construe that as a huge betrayal and what not, and I suspect you could quickly become her worst enemy, where she would be looking for the most efficient and the most devastating way to hurt you at short notice. See where I'm coming from?

Take care, OP, the best of luck to you. Do talk to AMEN as a matter of priority.

Meeoow

If you are not married, I think you may need to apply for guardianship of your daughter.

shesty

Very difficult OP. Very.
Would she have, or have had, post-natal depression at all either? It sounds oddly like she has struggled to accept your (both of your) daughter in some way? Other than that, yes I think she is abusive.

tinofapples

OP, you're partner sounds like she has some mental health or anger issues. Is she aware of this do you think ? Has she ever sought help ?I would be doing as already mentioned, talk to AMEN and a solicitor.

It's clearly not a healthy environment for you, your daughter or even your partner.

Edit: stay safe, all of you.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

LeilaK, I've deleted your post and all those who replying to it. Granted posters can give alternate advice and there are times not everyone will agree on the advice given, but not only did your post fail to offer any constructive advice to the OP, the last part of it was in poor taste to say the least.

Do not post in this thread again.

tara73

OP, I really thought your partner was one of those mild, somehow annoying controlling type, but your descriptin of her pointing a knife at you and talking about killing you really gave me the chills.

I think the essential thing calling AMEN was already suggested. But I think it's so important you staying alert in this and being there for your daughter. I don't want to be scaremongering but as you are here asking for advice I think you should be really aware your partner is bordering on some dangerous mental conditions and I'm scared for your daughter being alone with her.

Caranica

Just FYI, AMEN are now called Men's Aid Ireland. Most search engines will bring it up when you search for AMEN but just in case.

tinofapples

tara73 wrote: »

I don't want to be scaremongering but as you are here asking for advice I think you should be really aware your partner is bordering on some dangerous mental conditions and I'm scared for your daughter being alone with her.

I was tip-toeing around but yeah, too often we hear when things go wrong for people in difficult situations.

anndub

I'm not entirely convinced you're in an abusive relationship despite that being the general consensus. It sounds a lot more like a built up of anger and frustration. A couple of points you've made suggest you may not be looking at the issues entirely objectively which is understandable, very few of us do if/when we go through difficult patches with our partners.

Your other half sounds like she's suffering from pretty bad, ongoing anxiety and is overwhelmed and at breaking point. From what you've written and it's a big assumption I know, you may have a tendency to invalidate her feelings and concerns around your daughter by dismissing them out of hand rather than listening and working through them. I've been in a relationship like that, it is an absolute head melt to have someone invalidate your thoughts and expect that to make them go away! Is it possible you have become so overprotective of your daughter you have begun to alienate your partner? Are you acting as a coparent with your partner or is the dynamic now you and your daughter versus the child's mother? It does read as the latter. I've seen this before, one parent becomes overinvolved (to an unhealthy level) and the other parent is sidelined and left feeling pretty resentful. Resentment is very damaging to a relationship.

Just to point out if she was caring for the child so day and then working until ten pm I'm not surprised she's anxious for sleep. I am also surprised to see you say the you have first dibs on the property because you pay for it but also half the savings are yours despite stating she did most of the saving to offset what you pay in bills.

And while it's not excusible it's not a sign of anything for a parent to lose the head with a child occasionally. Toddlers test us, it's what they're designed to do. If it's every day or there is violence that's obviously a different story.

tara73

also be aware she could actually be planning an abduction, taking the girl to her home country. I mean, she threatened already to do this. you said she's saving money...this all sounds so bad, I hope all works out well OP and you get the help you and your daughter need.

Emme

anndub wrote: »

I'm not entirely convinced you're in an abusive relationship despite that being the general consensus. It sounds a lot more like a built up of anger and frustration. A couple of points you've made suggest you may not be looking at the issues entirely objectively which is understandable, very few of us do if/when we go through difficult patches with our partners.

She waved a large kitchen knife at the OP and has sent him text messages "I'll kill you".

cj maxx

anndub wrote: »

I'm not entirely convinced you're in an abusive relationship despite that being the general consensus. It sounds a lot more like a built up of anger and frustration. A couple of points you've made suggest you may not be looking at the issues entirely objectively which is understandable, very few of us do if/when we go through difficult patches with our partners.

Your other half sounds like she's suffering from pretty bad, ongoing anxiety and is overwhelmed and at breaking point. From what you've written and it's a big assumption I know, you may have a tendency to invalidate her feelings and concerns around your daughter by dismissing them out of hand rather than listening and working through them. I've been in a relationship like that, it is an absolute head melt to have someone invalidate your thoughts and expect that to make them go away! Is it possible you have become so overprotective of your daughter you have begun to alienate your partner? Are you acting as a coparent with your partner or is the dynamic now you and your daughter versus the child's mother? It does read as the latter. I've seen this before, one parent becomes overinvolved (to an unhealthy level) and the other parent is sidelined and left feeling pretty resentful. Resentment is very damaging to a relationship.

Just to point out if she was caring for the child so day and then working until ten pm I'm not surprised she's anxious for sleep. I am also surprised to see you say the you have first dibs on the property because you pay for it but also half the savings are yours despite stating she did most of the saving to offset what you pay in bills.

And while it's not excusible it's not a sign of anything for a parent to lose the head with a child occasionally. Toddlers test us, it's what they're designed to do. If it's every day or there is violence that's obviously a different story.

No anndub, it is an abusive relationship. What you're doing is giving excuses why. There is no excuse

anndub

cj maxx wrote: »

No anndub, it is an abusive relationship. What you're doing is giving excuses why. There is no excuse

The knife has been mentioned with be little detail so conclusions have been drawn. Was there actually a threat there or did she happen to be using a knife and it ended up getting waved around?

There have been threads in here where that was apparent, this isn't one of them. It's one side of a story and it's telling that the relationship was largely happy for the 13 or 14 years preceding the birth of the child. Perspective is important rather than tarring every one as either good or bad based on a short, one sided synopsis of a bigger issue. Without over simplifying it, and I have a child the same age who has no health issues, I have had arguments with my husband since he came along where had we posted here straight afterwards we'd have both been told our spouse was abusive and to get out.

Holding down jobs, adjusting to being new parents and struggling with chronic tiredness brings out the worst in people. Pair that with the strain of having a child with extra needs where you aren't both aligned on your to approach to those needs is a recipe for disaster.

I'd be far more inclined to recommend a few sessions of relationship counseling as you claim she is angry for no reason. She hasn't become suddenly angry for no reason after 16 years, that doesn't happen. If ye are still at each others throats after that it might be time to throw in the towel alright because constant argueing in front of your child isn't good for her, you're right on that point.

leggo

Not much to add beyond there’s pretty much no case where waving a knife is considered okay in an argument. Even if you happen to be holding a knife, it’s not something you forget or don’t notice to begin with, and even then it needs a full apology and a pretty forgiving partner to write off. There’s never an excuse for threatening to kill a partner, even if that’s just a thing you say with no intent. Even the Irish colloquialism of “oh I’d kill you” is said tongue-in-cheek, not in an argument. Plus if anything the OP is making excuses for his partner’s bad behaviour so nothing would track with the notion that he’s exaggerating for effect.

The last thing I want to do is make this a gender war (so PLEASE people don’t see this as a ball to pick up and run with your own agendas), but there can be a notion that exists that women can’t abuse men or that there must be more to the story, eg the man somehow did something to ‘deserve it’. I feel like you’re unfortunately using this stereotype, maybe without realising. The behaviour the OP has described is abusive behaviour, simple as. The end result of that is him being afraid to leave a relationship he doesn’t want to be in anymore, while also fearing for his daughter if he stays. It’s all there.

anndub

leggo wrote: »

Not much to add beyond there’s pretty much no case where waving a knife is considered okay in an argument. Even if you happen to be holding a knife, it’s not something you forget or don’t notice to begin with, and even then it needs a full apology and a pretty forgiving partner to write off. There’s never an excuse for threatening to kill a partner, even if that’s just a thing you say with no intent. Even the Irish colloquialism of “oh I’d kill you” is said tongue-in-cheek, not in an argument. Plus if anything the OP is making excuses for his partner’s bad behaviour so nothing would track with the notion that he’s exaggerating for effect.

The last thing I want to do is make this a gender war (so PLEASE people don’t see this as a ball to pick up and run with your own agendas), but there can be a notion that exists that women can’t abuse men or that there must be more to the story, eg the man somehow did something to ‘deserve it’. I feel like you’re unfortunately using this stereotype, maybe without realising. The behaviour the OP has described is abusive behaviour, simple as. The end result of that is him being afraid to leave a relationship he doesn’t want to be in anymore, while also fearing for his daughter if he stays. It’s all there.

At no point did I suggest men cannot be abused by women. Of course they can. However, I'm always wary when people describe themselves in glowing terms while blaming others in the entirety for all the problems.

Once again I'll reiterate the OP has clearly stated these are recent issues and based on that I'd surmise there are issues with both parties that need addressing. Abusers don't tend to hold it together for decades only to suddenly turn. Counselling is the best course of action in the absence of any physical violence, controlling behaviours or genuine threat to safety of the OP or the little girl.

Emme

anndub wrote: »

At no point did I suggest men cannot be abused by women. Of course they can. However, I'm always wary when people describe themselves in glowing terms while blaming others in the entirety for all the problems.

Once again I'll reiterate the OP has clearly stated these are recent issues and based on that I'd surmise there are issues with both parties that need addressing. Abusers don't tend to hold it together for decades only to suddenly turn. Counselling is the best course of action in the absence of any physical violence, controlling behaviours or genuine threat to safety of the OP or the little girl.

The OP said that looking back there have been a lot of red flags throughout the time they were together. He is to be forgiven for not noticing them at the time. If abusers showed their true colours at the start they would never get into a relationship with anyone. Abuse in relationships is often a drip drip drip scenario with the abuse gradually being ramped up as the abuser wears down their partner's defences. They often don't take heed of the red flags until like the OP, they wake up one day and realise how bad the situation is.

There is a child in this relationship who may be at risk. If the OP's partner abducts the child to her home country (she has threatened this) it's an even worse situation.

Counselling doesn't work for abusive relationships. The abuser can put up a very good front for the counsellor and a less than perceptive counsellor can be fooled by this.

leggo

anndub wrote: »

At no point did I suggest men cannot be abused by women. Of course they can. However, I'm always wary when people describe themselves in glowing terms while blaming others in the entirety for all the problems.

Once again I'll reiterate the OP has clearly stated these are recent issues and based on that I'd surmise there are issues with both parties that need addressing. Abusers don't tend to hold it together for decades only to suddenly turn. Counselling is the best course of action in the absence of any physical violence, controlling behaviours or genuine threat to safety of the OP or the little girl.

Sorry but that absolutely can happen. When you’re with someone long enough, their entire personality and how they deal with things can change from when you met them. Are you the exact same person you were 16 years ago for example? Not to mention that, as stated, one of the first thing he said was that he’d ignored warning signs throughout the years. So no, he didn’t clearly state that these are recent issues. This is a thought process that’s just occurred to him recently after a few years of dealing with them, he’s even detailed the progression and timeline. And the behaviour is what it is, it’s abusive behaviour that there’s no excuse for. Even if that was the only context he gave us it would still be abusive and inexcusable.

There’s no reason to doubt what the OP is saying here. He’s not describing himself in glowing terms, he’s not blaming her for all of his problems. These are all conclusions you’ve arrived at yourself, I feel because you’re using the old stereotype that a woman can’t abuse a man so there MUST be a reason he caused her to wave a knife at him. You’re reaching in a big way here and some of the stuff you say just isn’t in the OP’s post, to the point that I’m not sure you’ve fully read it.

LegacyUser

Hey Folks,

Many thanks for all the replies, I've read them all and they are all appreciated.

Dial Hard, you're right, I am in an abusive relationship. It's not physical but mental and I've known it for some time. I've been slow to do anything about it as I'm an extremely patient and forgiving person and you always hope something is going to happen that changes things but it hasn't happened. I can see overwhelmingly that I need to contact Men's Aid (AMEN) so I'll do that when I get a chance. I'll also look to contact a solicitor when I get some money put aside for that.

Emme, I've kept a log of all the messages and incidents that have happened.

seenitall - Thanks for that advice I'm aware that this is always a possibility but no matter how I may have pictured my partner, I don't think she would go down this route. Obviously I can't say she ever would BUT she has a fairly comfortable life here and she's not especially close to anyone in her home country.

Meeoow & Loveinapril - I am confused on rights. Looking online it seems I have none as I'm not married so any help clearing this up would be great. Because we're not married we're both under the impression that my partner wouldn't be automatically entitled to any assets so 'getting married' has been floated. Would this be a good/bad idea to strengthen my rights with my daughter?

shesty - I think post natal depression is absolutely what has happened. Her mother suffers from depression and by her own admission during our time together, even before our daughter my partner would have suffered from 'low moods'. So a history of depression in the family, coupled with her own low moods and what I suspect to be postal natal depression with anxiety from health concerns and the issue with the neighbour, just has not created a healthy situation.

tinofapples - Genuinely I don't think she's aware of it. I've been very blunt and brought it up recently and she somewhat acknowleged that maybe something is wrong and I've suggested that we look for help and we could go together. I don't believe she is aware of the frequency with which she flies off the handle and over the most minor of things.

anndub - To some degree I agree with you but I think very few people would have been as accomodating as I have been, as understanding as I have and as patient as I have been. At the end of the day she instigates arguments over absolutely minor points and flies off the handle shouting at me, cursing in front of our daughter. While I gave in initially, I stopped that long ago and I disagree with her, trying not to raise my voice or argue in front of our daughter. I've told her countless times she's free to have a go at me in the evening when our daughter has gone to bed. I've suggested multiple times that we go see someone to assess anger issues and we go to counselling.
I don't think I'm over protective of our daughter. She's mostly a good mother and they spend the majority of the day together but it's clear that she can't control her emotions and is to some degree unstable. That's not healthy. I've never shouted at our daughter, never got angry with her. You can't, she's just a kid but it hasn't stopped my partner and with a child who is very emotionally sensitive this display just isn't healthy. Our daughter is close to both of us and I encourage that as it's a healthy. I don't want to sound egotistical here but I consider myself a good parent and I will always try to do what's right and encourage a balanced relationship with both of us. You have to put your child's needs ahead of what you want.
She only does the late shift 2/3 times max per week. I know it's tough which is why I encouraged her in the past to go shopping, go to a coffee shop etc by herself. Quite often at the weekend I'd take my daughter to see her Auntie to my partner can have the majority of the day to herself before she goes to work. I should just chip in that she works 16 hours a week. Typically about 3/4 days split into 4 hour shifts.

anndub

leggo wrote: »

Sorry but that absolutely can happen. When you’re with someone long enough, their entire personality and how they deal with things can change from when you met them. Are you the exact same person you were 16 years ago for example? Not to mention that, as stated, one of the first thing he said was that he’d ignored warning signs throughout the years. So no, he didn’t clearly state that these are recent issues. This is a thought process that’s just occurred to him recently after a few years of dealing with them, he’s even detailed the progression and timeline. And the behaviour is what it is, it’s abusive behaviour that there’s no excuse for. Even if that was the only context he gave us it would still be abusive and inexcusable.

There’s no reason to doubt what the OP is saying here. He’s not describing himself in glowing terms, he’s not blaming her for all of his problems. These are all conclusions you’ve arrived at yourself, I feel because you’re using the old stereotype that a woman can’t abuse a man so there MUST be a reason he caused her to wave a knife at him. You’re reaching in a big way here and some of the stuff you say just isn’t in the OP’s post, to the point that I’m not sure you’ve fully read it.

I've read it three times now and draw the same conclusions. The OP describes himself as empathetic, compassionate and easy going while stating "everyone knows his partner is unpleasant". There are other glaring contradictions. The house should go to me because I pay for it, conveniently ignoring this was a financial arrangement reached between them as his partner is better at the saving side. Neither are viewpoints that scream "victim".

Anyway, this is an advice forum so I'll gracefully bow out of this debate now as it's against forum rules. My advice to the OP remains that he should take a hard look at how he's contributing to the break up. It takes two to make and break a relationship.

I'll leave the rest of you guys to your echo chamber!

Tokyo

anndub wrote: »

I'll leave the rest of you guys to your echo chamber!

Mod: Advice takes on many different perspectives. I'd suggest reading the forum charter and reconsidering your posting style before contributing to PI/RI again.

Brego888

Among the many difficulties in your opening post this stuck out:

"For the last 9 years I've paid the mortgage and all the bills myself, utility, subscriptions, grocery etc. I get nothing from the missus as she is a better saver than I am and the plan was that she'd save so we could build a deposit for a new house."

Man this is crazy. Of course it's easy to be a good saver when you pay for literally nothing! You say money is not a worry but you are leaving yourself very exposed here to be left with nothing.

Metroid diorteM

Your situation is definitely worse than mine op but it really resonates in a lot of ways. May need to contact Amen myself.

seannash

Hide your daughters passport if it wont draw suspicion.

Antares35

OP sorry to hear what you are going through and I have no desire to wade in on whether it is an abusive situation or not. I just wanted to mention as you might already know that the courts system is often (in my opinion) very unfairly and heavily biased in favour of the woman when it comes to any issues concerning separations, custody etc.

Even where a partner does not contribute as much to the running of the house and has a record of volatile behaviour etc. where that person is a woman and there is a child involved, the courts will be reluctant to favour a father for guardianship and right of residence. In most cases, she will have a right to reside in the family home until the youngest dependant is 18 (23 if in full time education).

In addition, courts will often look to the "stay at home" spouse as one who, by minding the child at home, facilitates the other to go out and earn a living. They have often done this in divorce settlements even where the other party has worked, paid for everything etc.

In my opinion the balance is unfairly weighted towards the woman as a parent simply because she is the woman and not because she necessarily IS the best parent... and I say that as a lawyer and a woman!

I dont want to dishearten you and of course every situation is unique, but just want to flag that it would be difficult to achieve a situation where you are granted full custody and the house, notwithstanding how your partner has behaved. The courts do not always treat all parties fairly and it might just be something to keep in mind if you are considering that route.

I really hope it all works out for you.

fits

Get yourself an excellent Family Law solicitor now. And don't do anything until you have their advice.

I know of several cases of children being taken out of the country. Be very careful.