New Bike - Carbon or Alu

maxamillius

Just looking for some thoughts on the Carbon vs Alu debate

looking at bikes between 2k - 2.5k

presumably that's the entry level for carbon frames, and maybe the top end for Alu?

have done enough research on Groupsets and i'm happy enough to stick with 105 for what i need.

would be good to here some opinions on the frame material?

cheers

Cee-Jay-Cee

At that price definitely get carbon, you’ll get a very good bike with 105 and possibly Ultegra for €2500

Tony04

If you looking for a better performance go carbon. Maybe aluminum might be better for something like a gravel bike, aluminum bikes might be nicer for maintenance also as they more likely to have threaded bbs if your maintaining your own bikes.

You can get 105 disc bikes for a little over 2000 ultegra disc for 2500. You can get 105 rim for even cheaper than 2000.

MojoMaker

Carbon isn't the be all and end all don't forget. A good high-end Alu bike probably a better investment than low-grade carbon, which is all you get in the sub-4k territory. I don't buy the performance angle necessarily, of course generally it's lighter but it comes with its own problems, it's more susceptible to scratches (particularly matt finishes), it doesn't take impacts too well, there are bottom bracket issues on many cheap carbon frames, and overall the material is less durable.

Of course, down the pub everyone wants carbon, but a well-specced Bowman, Ridley, or CAAD frame would be a fine bike to own.

Sad in a way that Canyon dropped their superlight AL frames but I guess the new cyclist only sees/hears carbon. I reckon after a few years in the sport/hobby you see folks coming back around to high-quality Alu, steel, and titanium eventually (when the pockets stretch a bit).

maxamillius

MojoMaker wrote: »

Carbon isn't the be all and end all don't forget. A good high-end Alu bike probably a better investment than low-grade carbon, which is all you get in the sub-4k territory. I don't buy the performance angle necessarily, of course generally it's lighter but it comes with its own problems, it's more susceptible to scratches (particularly matt finishes), it doesn't take impacts too well, there are bottom bracket issues on many cheap carbon frames, and overall the material is less durable.

Of course, down the pub everyone wants carbon, but a well-specced Bowman, Ridley, or CAAD frame would be a fine bike to own.

Sad in a way that Canyon dropped their superlight AL frames but I guess the new cyclist only sees/hears carbon. I reckon after a few years in the sport/hobby you see folks coming back around to high-quality Alu, steel, and titanium eventually (when the pockets stretch a bit).

Yep thats along the lines of how I was thinking, I think they are fair points re scratches and also maintenance etc

I’m not a professional, just get involved in sportives and long weekend spins etc,

It’s probably as you say, more of a talking point at my level, carbon fibre sounds better than alu.

maxamillius

MojoMaker wrote: »

Carbon isn't the be all and end all don't forget. A good high-end Alu bike probably a better investment than low-grade carbon, which is all you get in the sub-4k territory. I don't buy the performance angle necessarily, of course generally it's lighter but it comes with its own problems, it's more susceptible to scratches (particularly matt finishes), it doesn't take impacts too well, there are bottom bracket issues on many cheap carbon frames, and overall the material is less durable.

Of course, down the pub everyone wants carbon, but a well-specced Bowman, Ridley, or CAAD frame would be a fine bike to own.

Sad in a way that Canyon dropped their superlight AL frames but I guess the new cyclist only sees/hears carbon. I reckon after a few years in the sport/hobby you see folks coming back around to high-quality Alu, steel, and titanium eventually (when the pockets stretch a bit).

Yep thats along the lines of how I was thinking, I think they are fair points re scratches and also maintenance etc

I’m not a professional, just get involved in sportives and long weekend spins etc,

It’s probably as you say, more of a talking point at my level, carbon fibre sounds better than alu.

Tony04

To be honest if cheaper carbon fibre was really bad there would be more horror stories out there. And at the 2000€ price point the stuff isnt the awful stuff out of chinese factories but is probably the well built stuff from taiwan.

Bike brands use carbon firstly because obviously is 'its what the pros use'. Secondly it is lighter and easier to construct for aerodynamics. Its difficult to construct aero aluminium bikes, then again aero is another marketing ploy. But to construct lightweight alloy bikes you do have to use thin tubes which are not as strong as carbon frames of the same weight. At the same time on a mtb alloy is better because if you throw a rock at it, it is less likely to brake than carbon, but then alloy does fatigue and after 10-20 years it's not uncommon to see breakages at the welds.

Titanium is probably the best material to invest in imo but that sets you back an arm and leg.

So at your budget if you want something more value/performance giant tcr canyon ultimate is where to look.

Where as if you want something a bit fancier cannondale caad would be nice or even specalized tarmac(carbon).

magicbastarder

MojoMaker wrote: »

low-grade carbon, which is all you get in the sub-4k territory

that's quite a claim!

byrnem31

I just changed from a 2018 alu cube nuroad to a giant defy advanced 2 2020 carbon bike, €2250.
I had big thick anti puncture tyres on the nuroad and thought no way in hell will the new bike be as comfortable. The difference is night and day with the defy being way more comfortable. Its light years ahead of the cube though in fairness its twice the price. The comfort is through the frame.

A lifetime warranty on the frame for the original owner too. You cant make a guarantee like that unless they are well made. Also 2 year warranty if you crash and break the frame in the first 2 years. Shimano 105 with 11 gears. It's perfect and great on gravel. I'll never go back to aluminium. No road buzz, vibration, etc. coming through the bike.

Cee-Jay-Cee

MojoMaker wrote: »

Carbon isn't the be all and end all don't forget. A good high-end Alu bike probably a better investment than low-grade carbon, which is all you get in the sub-4k territory. I don't buy the performance angle necessarily, of course generally it's lighter but it comes with its own problems, it's more susceptible to scratches (particularly matt finishes), it doesn't take impacts too well, there are bottom bracket issues on many cheap carbon frames, and overall the material is less durable.

Sorry but no one needs to spend over €4K to get a good carbon bike. There are plenty of quality carbon bikes in the €2-2500 price range and for the average cyclist who cycles for leisure/fitness they’re more than enough.

ckeego

I think you will get a fine bike with that budget.

Certainly around the 2.5k mark I’d be looking at titanium (Lynskey have some great clearance bikes on their site) and unless you are racing/doing a lot of hills, you need to ask is carbon the way to go.

Dolan’s ADX comes in around 2300 euro..

The Cannondale CAAD 13 comes in at that price point depending on the build.

If you’re mind is set on carbon, certain set ups (race v. endurance) may not be the most comfortable. There is no point in having a race aero set up if it’s going to kill your body on a sportive ride.. it might look amazing and be well under 7kilos but if you need to be carried off it after 90minutes riding, it might not be the choice for you.

The suggestion above that it’s only cheap stuff sub 4K is pure pants...

Bang for buck, it’s hard to look past the Canyon Ultimate CF SL Disc 8.0 but there are many many other good carbon bikes in that bracket-have a look at the Giant Defy Advanced 1, Cannondale’s SuperSix Evo 105 and the Orro Gold STC Ultegra is simply a cracker.

I’d always look towards previous years models too, particularly if buying online. Look at sites like Hargreaves if you go down that line. There can be excellent bargains to be had, but it can come at the risk of fit and after sales service.

Either way, the best money you will spend will be on a proper bike fit-personally Aidan at bikefit.ie in Kilmacanogue Wicklow is excellent, and may be a very good starting point to discuss what type of riding you will settle into. This will dictate what this particular bike purchase will be!!!

The very best of luck with your purchase.. very exciting!

ckeego

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

Sorry but no one needs to spend over €4K to get a good carbon bike. There are plenty of quality carbon bikes in the €2-2500 price range and for the average cyclist who cycles for leisure/fitness they’re more than enough.

Well said!

maxamillius

ckeego wrote: »

I think you will get a fine bike with that budget.

Certainly around the 2.5k mark I’d be looking at titanium (Lynskey have some great clearance bikes on their site) and unless you are racing/doing a lot of hills, you need to ask is carbon the way to go.

Dolan’s ADX comes in around 2300 euro..

The Cannondale CAAD 13 comes in at that price point depending on the build.

If you’re mind is set on carbon, certain set ups (race v. endurance) may not be the most comfortable. There is no point in having a race aero set up if it’s going to kill your body on a sportive ride.. it might look amazing and be well under 7kilos but if you need to be carried off it after 90minutes riding, it might not be the choice for you.

The suggestion above that it’s only cheap stuff sub 4K is pure pants...

Bang for buck, it’s hard to look past the Canyon Ultimate CF SL Disc 8.0 but there are many many other good carbon bikes in that bracket-have a look at the Giant Defy Advanced 1, Cannondale’s SuperSix Evo 105 and the Orro Gold STC Ultegra is simply a cracker.

I’d always look towards previous years models too, particularly if buying online. Look at sites like Hargreaves if you go down that line. There can be excellent bargains to be had, but it can come at the risk of fit and after sales service.

Either way, the best money you will spend will be on a proper bike fit-personally Aidan at bikefit.ie in Kilmacanogue Wicklow is excellent, and may be a very good starting point to discuss what type of riding you will settle into. This will dictate what this particular bike purchase will be!!!

The very best of luck with your purchase.. very exciting!

I had a look on the Dolan website, there seems to be some great bikes there all in around the 2/2.5k price range, ultegra group set and carbon.

I don’t know much about Dolan, is there a catch?

Fann Linn

Some lovely steel, alu and carbon bikes on the Ribble website also for the ops budget.

iwillhtfu

I'm not so sure about low end carbon at your price point but this one is certainly in opposition.

7kg :eek: round up to 2.5k with a pair of zondas you'll probably be under 7kg.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road-bikes/race-bikes/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-8.0/2151.html?dwvar_2151_pv_rahmenfarbe=RD%2FWH&quantity=1

magicbastarder

iwillhtfu wrote: »

7kg :eek: round up to 2.5k with a pair of zondas you'll probably be under 7kg.

the claimed weight difference from the manufacturers seems to be around 60g, between the supplied wheels and zondas.

CramCycle

byrnem31 wrote: »

I just changed from a 2018 alu cube nuroad to a giant defy advanced 2 2020 carbon bike, €2250.
I had big thick anti puncture tyres on the nuroad and thought no way in hell will the new bike be as comfortable. The difference is night and day with the defy being way more comfortable. Its light years ahead of the cube though in fairness its twice the price. The comfort is through the frame.
.

The puncture proof tyres more than likely made your nuroad uncomfortable, they are not pleasant compared to good, non puncture proof tyres.

ckeego

maxamillius wrote: »

I had a look on the Dolan website, there seems to be some great bikes there all in around the 2/2.5k price range, ultegra group set and carbon.

I don’t know much about Dolan, is there a catch?

Great bikes. I have a couple of mates with them and they are solid, well built and well specced bikes.
I really enjoyed riding their track bikes too.

Plus one on the Ribble. I had an R872. Same frame as a much more expensive DeRosa -ultra light but boy was it aggressive geometry.

You will find some great value at that price point. In the past the big brands like Trek were overpriced as they were sponsored team bikes but these days there is just too much competition for them to levy you with Lance tax and the like. They’ve had to readjust..

ckeego

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I'm not so sure about low end carbon at your price point but this one is certainly in opposition.

7kg :eek: round up to 2.5k with a pair of zondas you'll probably be under 7kg.

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road-bikes/race-bikes/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-8.0/2151.html?dwvar_2151_pv_rahmenfarbe=RD%2FWH&quantity=1

Nice bike.. but not in red.

Pay the extra bit for discs?

maxamillius

ckeego wrote: »

Nice bike.. but not in red.

Pay the extra bit for discs?

That is a light bike alright, I believe the endurance is more geared toward long spins which is generally what I’d be doing?’

ckeego

https://www.canyon.com/en-ie/road-bikes/race-bikes/ultimate/ultimate-cf-sl-disc-8.0/2157.html

ckeego

It’s a good mix of weight, components and geometry. The only downsides of a Canyon is to be sure of the sizing (as the stems are not bog standard) and there have been issues in the past with BB shells and chain stays.

There can be a bit of a wait-highly sought after steeds...

maxamillius

ckeego wrote: »

Great bikes. I have a couple of mates with them and they are solid, well built and well specced bikes.
I really enjoyed riding their track bikes too.

Plus one on the Ribble. I had an R872. Same frame as a much more expensive DeRosa -ultra light but boy was it aggressive geometry.

You will find some great value at that price point. In the past the big brands like Trek were overpriced as they were sponsored team bikes but these days there is just too much competition for them to levy you with Lance tax and the like. They’ve had to readjust..

This one seems like good value for money

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-dr1-carbon-disc-road-bike-shimano-ultegra-r8020-copy/

ednwireland

nearly bought an endurace with discs but they didnt have the blue. so got a 2019 synapse di2 with discs (8.4kg) cant say i regret it. few hundred more for di2

ckeego

maxamillius wrote: »

This one seems like good value for money

https://www.dolan-bikes.com/dolan-dr1-carbon-disc-road-bike-shimano-ultegra-r8020-copy/

Nice...

Just bear in mind those wheels pictured are an extra hundred nicker...

CramCycle

Rose X Lite four, i have the six and it is glorious. The 4 is 6.8kg for €2399

maxamillius

ckeego wrote: »

Nice...

Just bear in mind those wheels pictured are an extra hundred nicker...

Ha ha ye, they draw you in and then stuff you for another bucket load of cash

Tony04

These https://www.merlincycles.com/sensa-giulia-g3-disc-ultegra-road-bike-2020-172336.html
https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/cube-agree-c-62-race-carbon-n-white-897118 are the cheapest carbon ultegra disc, I've seen out there.

I think though the giant tcr advanced 1 is the best value out there as it may not be the cheapest but definitely has a solid frameset.

Here's one on sale if it fits https://www.bike24.com/p2349320.html?menu=1000,173,157

byrnem31

CramCycle wrote: »

The puncture proof tyres more than likely made your nuroad uncomfortable, they are not pleasant compared to good, non puncture proof tyres.

I had clem xplor's on it before the puncture proof ones which were standard tyres and it was the same.
The d-fuse seat post and stem along with the carbon frame on the giant make it more comfortable.

Tony04

byrnem31 wrote: »

I had clem xplor's on it before the puncture proof ones which were standard tyres and it was the same.
The d-fuse seat post and stem along with the carbon frame on the giant make it more comfortable.

Your cube could have had a light cable rattle from badly designed internal cable routing, where as the giant would have a neater cable design and this wouldnt be an issue.

iwillhtfu

ckeego wrote: »

Nice bike.. but not in red.

Pay the extra bit for discs?

Normally I'd agree on the colour but everything is "stealth black" these days a bit of colour is nice. Bring back the artistic side of cycling that colnago etc went for. I'd only go for the disc model if I was going with carbon wheels otherwise rim brakes are plenty on a roadie.