Requested to pay rent prior to lease start

GlobalSun

Hi all,

Further to the debacle described in my previous thread, I had been looking for a new apartment.

I found something decent on May 4th and during the viewing, I had mentioned I would possibly move in around the third/last week of May. However, this was a possibility, not a guarantee as I have my own tenancy to coordinate. There was no binding agreement made with the remaining and leaving tenants, especially as the person who conducted the visit was the leaving tenant.

I sent across the application to the agency/landlord requesting a lease start on June 1st and a move in date on the same day (June 1st) as I won't be able to move in before then due to further developments on my end.

Today, I got a message from the remaining tenant saying: "You mentioned during the visit you would possibly move in during the third week of May, so fine if you want to move in on June 1st and start the lease on the same day, but you will need to start paying rent as of May 25th".

The tenant I'm replacing moved out on May 1st without having secured a new tenant and now I'm basically asked to cover for his failure to find a tenant on time. My mention of possibly moving in during the third week of May was a verbal mention during the viewing and it was specifically indicated that I still needed to negotiate with my own landlord. I find it shocking that they dare to ask for such payment at a time when they can't even find tenants in the first place.

If my lease is starting on June 1st and I'm also moving in on that date, I don't see any legal obligation to pay rent from May 25th and more specifically, any purpose.

It's a clear "no" from my side, especially as whoever requested me to pay rent as of May 25th is not the landlord, but the remaining tenant.

The lease will be signed with the agency/landlord, not the remaining tenant.

Should I just drop this option? How to respond to the tenant?

Graham

This is all down to whatever you and the existing tenants can negotiate.

If you won't move or they won't move, it looks like you'll be back on the property hunt again.

wonski

You requested the lease to start on 1st of June, but want to move in a week earlier.

It is a rule you pay the rent from the day you move in, you can always ask the agency to amend the lease if that's such a big issue.

sweetie

wonski wrote: »

You requested the lease to start on 1st of June, but want to move in a week earlier.

It is a rule you pay the rent from the day you move in, you can always ask the agency to amend the lease if that's such a big issue.

no they didn't, they want to move in 1st of June

GlobalSun

wonski wrote: »

You requested the lease to start on 1st of June, but want to move in a week earlier.

It is a rule you pay the rent from the day you move in, you can always ask the agency to amend the lease if that's such a big issue.

No, I won't be moving in before June 1st.

When I visited the apartment, I had mentioned that I could possibly move in around the third/last week of May. However, some developments on my end rendered the move prior to June 1st impossible.

I obviously wouldn't be questioning paying rent as of May 25th, if I was actually moving in on that date with a lease start on June 1st. I would have otherwise just requested a lease start on May 25th.

I thought it was clear from my post that I would be moving in on June 1st, hence the lease start on June 1st and the strange query to pay rent before having moved in.

wonski

You should get clarification from the tenant, as it does seem to me from that message that if you want to move in in the last week of May, but start the lease on 1st of June, you can do so, but need to cover last week of May rent.

That's how I read it.

Could be simply a case of miscommunication.

GlobalSun

Graham wrote: »

This is all down to whatever you and the existing tenants can negotiate.

If you won't move or they won't move, it looks like you'll be back on the property hunt again.

From a legal standpoint, I can't be asked to pay rent retroactively if my lease hasn't started and I haven't moved in. Paying rent starts on the day that I move in.

I can't be held liable for rent starting on a possible move in date mentioned during a visit. There is no binding agreement during an apartment visit.

GlobalSun

wonski wrote: »

You should get clarification from the tenant, as it does seem to me from that message that if you want to move in in the last week of May, but start the lease on 1st of June, you can do so, but need to cover last week of May rent.

That's how I read it.

Could be simply a case of miscommunication.

No. I clearly mentioned in my email to the tenant: "Due to external circumstances, I will be moving in on June 1st and am therefore requesting a lease start on June 1st as well".

He replied and said: "Of course, you can move in on June 1st, but you will need to pay rent retroactively (starting May 25th) as you had mentioned during the visit there might be a possibility for you to move in on the 25th".

There was no miscommunication. If I'm asking for my lease to start on June 1st and will be moving in on June 1st, why would I be paying rent as of May 25th?

A verbal possibility during a visit does not equal a binding agreement.

spaceHopper

Yep they can't force you to pay rent before the 1st of june but they can give it to somebody else who will pay rent from the 25th, so it's your call as to what you do.

wonski

GlobalSun wrote: »

From a legal standpoint, I can't be asked to pay rent retroactively if my lease hasn't started and I haven't moved in. Paying rent starts on the day that I move in.

I can't be held liable for rent starting on a possible move in date mentioned during a visit. There is no binding agreement during an apartment visit.

If that's what they want I would not agree, but as suggested above clear it with them first.

Also you state contract with agency? Are you paying to the agency directly or to the existing tenant?

GlobalSun

wonski wrote: »

You should get clarification from the tenant, as it does seem to me from that message that if you want to move in in the last week of May, but start the lease on 1st of June, you can do so, but need to cover last week of May rent.

That's how I read it.

Could be simply a case of miscommunication.

As I said, I won't be moving in May at all.

During the visit, I had mentioned the possibility of moving on May 25th, but this had to be further discussed with my own landlord. It was a mere possibility.

However, when I sent my application to formalize the tenancy, I confirmed my move-in date being June 1st and a lease start on June 1st as well.

He's trying to hold me liable for a mention I made when I visited the apartment.

GlobalSun

wonski wrote: »

If that's what they want I would not agree, but as suggested above clear it with them first.

Also you state contract with agency? Are you paying to the agency directly or to the existing tenant?

The contract is with the agency and rent is also paid to the agency, not to the existing tenant. This request to cover the rent for the last week of May is coming from the remaining tenant, not the agency. The agency just received my application this morning.

Ronin247

if they are starting with this kind of messing around before any agreement I would be running now.

GlobalSun

spaceHopper wrote: »

Yep they can't force you to pay rent before the 1st of june but they can give it to somebody else who will pay rent from the 25th, so it's your call as to what you do.

They can go ahead. I'm not going to take the financial burden to compensate their failure to find a new tenant on time. It's a ludicrous query.

wonski

GlobalSun wrote: »

The contract is with the agency and rent is also paid to the agency, not to the existing tenant. This request to cover the rent for the last week of May is coming from the remaining tenant, not the agency. The agency just received my application this morning.

He has no business to negotiate nothing with you if that's the case.

He was just asked to show you the place.

If agency accepts you as a tenant that's it.

Talk to them, not to him.

GlobalSun

Ronin247 wrote: »

if they are starting with this kind of messing around before any agreement I would be running now.

That's what I'm thinking. Not a good start.

Padre_Pio

GlobalSun wrote: »

As I said, I won't be moving in May at all.

During the visit, I had mentioned the possibility of moving on May 25th, but this had to be further discussed with my own landlord. It was a mere possibility.

However, when I sent my application to formalize the tenancy, I confirmed my move-in date being June 1st and a lease start on June 1st as well.

He's trying to hold me liable for a mention I made when I visited the apartment.

I read it as them saying that you pay from whatever date you move in. The lease starts on June 1, but you mentioned you may be there early and in that case you pay from when you move in.

I think you're just taking them up wrong. It makes no sense any other way. Have you called and clarified this?

GlobalSun

Padre_Pio wrote: »

I read it as them saying that you pay from whatever date you move in. The lease starts on June 1, but you mentioned you may be there early and in that case you pay from when you move in.

I think you're just taking them up wrong. It makes no sense any other way. Have you called and clarified this?

Please read my clarification.

KeithTS

I would just write an email to the current tenant and let them know you'll sort out the financials with the agency, apologise for any misunderstanding and say you won't/can't be pay for time that you're not there. Be nice though, the current tenant is probably trying to get back some lost money after they've been left to cover the old tenants share which is understandable, albeit it a little cheeky. You don't get if you don't ask so they're probably just chancing it.

You'll be living with this person after all so try and be nice and not start the relationship on a bad note over a couple of quid.

jrosen

There seems to be some confusion which I assume has come from your original interaction where you said you would possibly look to move the 3rd week of May.

If the property works for you and your happy with price and location I would email the other tenant and just say your sorting all your financials with the agent. Then call the agency and see what the mix up is.

meijin

so,
- during the viewing you wanted to move in on 25th
- possibly on that basis, you got the place (over someone who wanted to move in on 1st, or later)
- then you say, that actually, no, you can't move in on 25th

correct?

timetogo1

meijin wrote: »

so,
- during the viewing you wanted to move in on 25th
- possibly on that basis, you got the place (over someone who wanted to move in on 1st, or later)
- then you say, that actually, no, you can't move in on 25th

correct?

Not from my reading of it
Possibly does not equal Definitely. If the landlord was assuming 25th he should have really clarified the possibly bit.

Graham

GlobalSun wrote: »

From a legal standpoint, I can't be asked to pay rent retroactively if my lease hasn't started and I haven't moved in. Paying rent starts on the day that I move in.

There is no such legal standpoint.

Brego888

KeithTS wrote: »

I would just write an email to the current tenant and let them know you'll sort out the financials with the agency, apologise for any misunderstanding and say you won't/can't be pay for time that you're not there. Be nice though, the current tenant is probably trying to get back some lost money after they've been left to cover the old tenants share which is understandable, albeit it a little cheeky. You don't get if you don't ask so they're probably just chancing it.

You'll be living with this person after all so try and be nice and not start the relationship on a bad note over a couple of quid.

This is the best advice. Deal with the agent for the money not the tenant.

And don't make mountains out of molehills. I wouldn't blame the tenant for the misunderstanding as moving in the last week of a May is what you originally indicated. You have to live with this person so best to keep it all very civil. Simply apologise for the misunderstanding and hope to move on.

Claw Hammer

The lease starts from the day the contract is entered. The move in date is irrelevant.

Graham

and payments start whenever the two parties negotiate.

GlobalSun

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Brego888 wrote: »

This is the best advice. Deal with the agent for the money not the tenant.

And don't make mountains out of molehills. I wouldn't blame the tenant for the misunderstanding as moving in the last week of a May is what you originally indicated. You have to live with this person so best to keep it all very civil. Simply apologise for the misunderstanding and hope to move on.

I can appreciate the misunderstanding, but after the viewing, I had specifically indicated that the moving date would be TBC. I never confirmed May 25th in writing.

I sent in my application to the agency one week later and I confirmed both the move in and lease start date as June 1st. Sure, there might have been a confusion, but the move in date was only discussed as a possibility with the tenant who has already moved out (he had moved out before the viewing).

The remaining tenant wasn't at the viewing and when we spoke on the phone, I had specifically insisted on the fact that the move in date had yet to be confirmed. There is no contract binding us to this day, so whatever I said during the viewing is only an indication not a contractual clause.

KeithTS

GlobalSun wrote: »

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I can appreciate the misunderstanding, but after the viewing, I had specifically indicated that the moving date would be TBC. I never confirmed May 25th in writing.

I sent in my application to the agency one week later and I confirmed both the move in and lease start date as June 1st. Sure, there might have been a confusion, but the move in date was only discussed as a possibility with the tenant who has already moved out (he had moved out before the viewing).

The remaining tenant wasn't at the viewing and when we spoke on the phone, I had specifically insisted on the fact that the move in date had yet to be confirmed. There is no contract binding us to this day, so whatever I said during the viewing is only an indication not a contractual clause.

Don't get too stressed out about this with talk of contracts binding you etc.
The fact is that the agency will draw up a lease starting from the dates you agreed with them, not the other tenant. If it comes back and says May 25th, push it back to the agency and say no, it's supposed to be June 1st.

Personally I would be polite and civil with the current tenant and let them know what the story is as a courtesy. You want an amicable relationship with them since you'll be sharing a home. There seems to be a tendency for people to go from 0 to 100 before even discussing these matters. You said you spoke to the remaining tenant on the phone before, so pick it up again. Give them a bell and talk it through casually and explain there may have been crossed wires. Nobody is to blame, nobody is the enemy, these things just happen.

Try and see it from their perspective too, perhaps they genuinely thought you meant to move on May 25th. If so, they're right to ask you for the weeks rent as they've probably already paid it to the agency and they don't want the agency getting paid twice while they're left out of pocket for it.

GlobalSun

Graham wrote: »

and payments start whenever the two parties negotiate.

The only way to legally enforce payment is a contract.

GlobalSun

KeithTS wrote: »

Don't get too stressed out about this with talk of contracts binding you etc.
The fact is that the agency will draw up a lease starting from the dates you agreed with them, not the other tenant. If it comes back and says May 25th, push it back to the agency and say no, it's supposed to be June 1st.

Personally I would be polite and civil with the current tenant and let them know what the story is as a courtesy. You want an amicable relationship with them since you'll be sharing a home. There seems to be a tendency for people to go from 0 to 100 before even discussing these matters. You said you spoke to the remaining tenant on the phone before, so pick it up again. Give them a bell and talk it through casually and explain there may have been crossed wires. Nobody is to blame, nobody is the enemy, these things just happen.

Try and see it from their perspective too, perhaps they genuinely thought you meant to move on May 25th. If so, they're right to ask you for the weeks rent as they've probably already paid it to the agency and they don't want the agency getting paid twice while they're left out of pocket for it.

The remaining tenant is moving out as well.

I can perfectly understand he thought I was moving out on the 25th, but a possibility is not a certainty. He also has to understand that during these uncertain times, anything can happen when it comes to agreements.

I won't be able to find a tenant for my own place and in addition, that will leave me paying at two different spots in May, June and July. This is not realistic at all.

The tenant I'm replacing moved out on May 1st. If he truly wanted to avoid taking a hit on his finances, he should have started the replacement search sooner than the 27th of April. I'm all for abiding by agreements, but there was never an agreement for me to move on My 17th or May 25th.

He of course forwarded my application to the agency, but did not include any lease start date when I had specified June 1st.

Graham

GlobalSun wrote: »

The only way to legally enforce payment is a contract.

Who said anything about enforcement. Not everything is a legal matter.

They've asked you to pay if you want the room, you've said you don't want to.

One party backs down, you both come to an agreement, or you both walk away.