Mental health help for a 5-year-old girl?

LegacyUser

I will discuss this with my gp, but as I don’t know what to expect of my 5-year-old daughter for her age, I need some other perspectives and experiences of how “normal” this is.

She’s so kind, loving and considerate - and she needs all those things desperately all day. She cannot get enough hugs and attention and loves talking about the importance of love and family. She’s beautifully thoughtful and creative. All of which, I surmise, is normal.

However, she is also extremely volatile, and this volatility has exacerbated since the Lockdown. Both of us are working from home, and she is left watching tv for hours per day. We both try to take as many breaks as possible, but we still must work and when she walks into a meeting looking for something - rubbish food, more tv, etc - she invariably gets it. If she doesn’t get what she wants she always, without fail, erupts into the mother of all tantrums. We cannot, of course, have our usual childminder for our children and we cannot get help from grandparents. There was great balance in that break for her, but I suppose the point is that the basic issue of volatile temper, deep sadness, unhappiness, anxiety, greater neediness (compared to her younger, male sibling) has been present long before Covid-19.

Lately, she has taken to telling us recurrently that she is so “sad”, and almost each morning she cries, rather than talks, her way to request something. Not sure if it could indicate something but she also has an extremely high-pitched voice, which adds to the general stress her unhappiness creates in the home (we got her hearing tested but there was no issue). She also loves rules and gets upset if they aren’t followed. My wife, who suffers from Anxiety, has suggested that she could be depressed and need counselling. But she’s five, so I find that hard to believe. But, really, she needs some support. I know she needs more love, and she definitely has a creative side which is not being fulfilled in the current environment, but I don’t know where to bring a 5-year-old girl for help with this sort of thing.

What are our options here? How “normal” is such behaviour? Thank you.

Hannibal_Smith

My son was exactly the same. Very kind and considerate, but then would explode over something. The likes of time out just wound him up more. We brought him to the GP when he started saying he wanted to kill himself. The GP said we just had to keep being firm with him, and we did, but it was really hard. We always told him he was a lovely caring boy and we loved him very much but the behaviour when he kicked off was way over the top.

Then one day I videoed him and he saw what he looked like. Only then did we see the change. He's 8 now and I suppose age and the growing vocabulary helped too. Every now and again he goes to kick off again, but we remind him of what hes like and he is able to real it in. When he calms down we listen to him and talk through it, but he knows to be listened to, he has to calm down first.

Definitely go to your GP, because I'm not sure our approach is the right one just because it worked for us or suitable to you. More than anything you'll benefit from telling someone about it.

Good luck!

Ellie2008

Imnioch wrote: »

I will discuss this with my gp, but as I don’t know what to expect of my 5-year-old daughter for her age, I need some other perspectives and experiences of how “normal” this is.

She’s so kind, loving and considerate - and she needs all those things desperately all day. She cannot get enough hugs and attention and loves talking about the importance of love and family. She’s beautifully thoughtful and creative. All of which, I surmise, is normal.

However, she is also extremely volatile, and this volatility has exacerbated since the Lockdown. Both of us are working from home, and she is left watching tv for hours per day. We both try to take as many breaks as possible, but we still must work and when she walks into a meeting looking for something - rubbish food, more tv, etc - she invariably gets it. If she doesn’t get what she wants she always, without fail, erupts into the mother of all tantrums. We cannot, of course, have our usual childminder for our children and we cannot get help from grandparents. There was great balance in that break for her, but I suppose the point is that the basic issue of volatile temper, deep sadness, unhappiness, anxiety, greater neediness (compared to her younger, male sibling) has been present long before Covid-19.

Lately, she has taken to telling us recurrently that she is so “sad”, and almost each morning she cries, rather than talks, her way to request something. Not sure if it could indicate something but she also has an extremely high-pitched voice, which adds to the general stress her unhappiness creates in the home (we got her hearing tested but there was no issue). She also loves rules and gets upset if they aren’t followed. My wife, who suffers from Anxiety, has suggested that she could be depressed and need counselling. But she’s five, so I find that hard to believe. But, really, she needs some support. I know she needs more love, and she definitely has a creative side which is not being fulfilled in the current environment, but I don’t know where to bring a 5-year-old girl for help with this sort of thing.

What are our options here? How “normal” is such behaviour? Thank you.

I’m no child expert & my children are younger but do you think maybe you are underestimating the effect lockdown is having on her. I would expect any child stuck in front of TV all day & given into to buy peace will kick off more easily. I’m more certainly not having a go at you btw, same boat, I totally get it

Of course she is sad at the moment, it would be strange if she wasn’t, she’s old enough to understand that her life has altered dramatically.

I would encourage you to speak to your GP. Instead of professional counselling ship presumably is off the cards at the moment why don’t you read up on some child psychology & you guys talk to her at her level about how she feels.

lurker2000

If she loves rules and routine, this new situation of you being around all day but being tied up with work had probably unsettled her. Even if you are giving in to her demands to get some peace is not easing here anxiousness it seems. What she really wants is your attention, making a song and dance achieves this.

Do both of you have to work static hours? Can one work an early shift and the other a later shift and give her some time outdoors running around. Being stuck in on these beautiful days would challenge anyone.

leggo

Yeah I’d say what you’ve described her seems more a reaction to the struggles of lockdown than needing professional counselling. What struck me, and may have struck you as you wrote it too, is that you described her constant need for attention and then described her day to day life as essentially watching TV while you work, then throwing tantrums for attention. All a tantrum is is a child’s reaction to not being able to get what they’re looking for by simply requesting it (or learning that a straightforward request won’t do), and children do need a lot of attention particularly in their crucial first 6-7 years, so when she’s being left to watch TV a lot her behaviour makes perfect sense. And I definitely don’t see introducing someone else as a way of trying to ‘fix’ this as the answer, because it sounds like all she needs specifically is you guys.

This isn’t a judgement on you so please don’t take it that way, everyone is struggling to cope with lockdown, but it’s extremely important right now that your child learns to feel like she is important and so are her needs. She doesn’t have to be the centre of attention all the time, that’s not good either, but she does need to feel important enough to be someone’s centre of attention or this is how kids end up with conditions like anxiety or low self-esteem later in life.

Are there options with work where one of you can be with her during the day, in terms of cutting down or moving around hours or even altering your workflow? Evaluate everything here, remember the flip side is potentially damaging your daughter with lessons she may never unlearn. So could you survive on one or a decreased second income? By that I mean the essentials of paying the mortgage/rent/bills and putting food on the table (no booze, holidays or luxuries)?

You seem like very caring, concerned parents doing your best, so again please don’t take any of this as an attack on your parenting. Like I said, everyone is winging it right now.

radiotrickster

I’m going to go against the grain and say it does sound like it could be a mental health issue, but that’s not something anyone but your GP can make full judgement of.

A lot of what you said resonated with me about my own childhood, the crying, liking rules (even now if I’m going through a stressful time, I can get overly upset with changes to things that are supposed to be set in stone).

I can look back at some of my earliest memories (especially when I was 10, 11, 12) and clearly see signs that I was developing the depression I suffered from for years as a teenager/in my early 20s.

It’s not impossible for children to develop mental illnesses, the same way as they can develop or be born with other illnesses.

Barnardos have some exercises online that might help calm her or help her to cope (and there’s stuff for adults there too). https://www.barnardos.ie/how-you-can-help/fundraising/covid-19-crisis-appeal-for-children/heart-body-and-mind

If I were you, I’d look into how to help young children cope with anxiety. A friend of mine has a three year old who was diagnosed with anxiety by her GP and they’ve often said the child just needs extra reassurance and attention that everything is okay, maybe some distractions away from the sadness when they have a chance.

The NHS also have some advice and information about mental illness in children that might be worth reading: https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/children-depressed-signs/

Best of luck.

Augme

If she is the creative type, sticking is her in front of the TV for hours everyday is obviously going to be extremely frustrating.

I understand working from home is difficult, but so you think maybe you and your wife need to put in a bit more effort to make sure she isn't just plonked in front of a TV for hours in end?

I don't see why she can't be encouraged by the both of you to be creative - is drawing, paints, Lego, etc etc an option? Or what if she does an hour of TV, and hour of something else. That would also help with a routine.

When she is plonked in front of a TV is it to watch shows that she can interact with and allows participation or just sit and watch cartoons?

I would definitely encourage a trip to the GP but from OP I get the impression yous havent made a huge amount of effort to sort the problem yourselves or at least try to. It basically reads that she is frustrated because she has been dropped in front of a TV for the day and now we need to visit a gp to solve it.

I don't really know what you think a GP will do to help.

Airyfairy12

My friends child sounds very much like yours, constantly looking for attention, very immature for his age, very needy and has massive meltdowns over anything. When we call each other, as soon as he hears her on the phone he stops whatever he was doing, comes into her and throws things, keeps calling her, constantly asking for things he doesnt want or need.
He was sent to see a psychologist a few months ago because of his behaviour and afterwards my friend was told that he's spending too much time on screens and that too much screen time negativly effects kids, their moods and ability to handle their emotions and behaviour, I obviously cant explain it the way the psychologist did to my friend but she was pretty much told to cut out all screen time and only use it as a reward and for certain times during the week. How much time does your daughter spend on ipads, phones, watching tv etc?
My friend got her child to see a psychologist by going to her gp who referred her, her child attends weekly monitered play groups with other children.
Definitly get her seen by a doctor, screen time may or may not be the issue, it could be a hundred other things but just something to point out as it sounds similar to my friend but keep in mind, kids dont have the vocabulary or emotional maturity to express their feelings so they act out instead. As hard as it for you to deal with, it sounds like its hard for her too and she may just need a bit of help expressing herself.

Finchie1276

Hi
We had this with our first kid too. Pretty much the same.
After lots of going round in circles we went to a private child psychologist (just the parents) She went through what is appropriate at each age, how kids develop and how they take cues from us.
So, after that we changed how we interacted. We set boundaries, we responded appropriately, we did not react to the meltdowns, we rewarded appropriate behaviour and worked on helping him develop the ability to regulate his emotions.

Kids don't learn to emotionally regulate quickly, they cannot abstract reason until they are 8 /9 years old. So your child is kicking off and you are both jumping into action to prevent the emotional flare. Let it flare, let her express her emotions and move on. Star charts, timed breaks etc are important now for kids at home. But if you are both jumping to attention then you are rewarding bad behaviour.

I had severe anxiety at the time this was kicking off and in retrospect my buttons were really pressed and I reacted as I thought I had to do everything and be everything. Your wife needs to go get her anxiety sorted but its separate from her relationship with your child.

I am not a child psychologist but it is unlikely she needs counselling or to see a GP, in doing so you would add to the drama and the 'importance' of her needs. Its important you respond to her needs for sure, but not all, not always. You cannot be the perfect parent.

You also need to be careful in comparing they younger sibling - he will have his own stuff but beware of making him be the one that is less trouble.

I think if your wife understood how her anxiety played out and how this probably pushes her buttons would would be clearer in what to do next. You both need to be on the same page. If she is 5 she should not be coming into meetings demanding things. She needs to learn to wait, even it upsets her.

shesty

I have 4 and 5 year old girls.
The current situation is doing none of us any favours.My 4 year old is angry, tbh, a lot.She expresses it alright, in the sense that we know it stems from missing preschool, friends, grandparents.It manifests itself in zero patience, and temper outbursts.Five year old has bad temper lately too, the drama, and everything is a crisis of epic proportions.That being said, she lives life at speed and emotional regulation is something she would struggle with more- she is quite a "high needs" child in terms of attention and interaction.

Turn off the TV.I know it's a nightmare working with kids, we are at it too, and we have a 1 year old aswsell.We just have to take turns on calls, and log on at evenings and weekends if needed.The 1 year old kind of dictates that anyway in the sense that we cannot leave him alone during the day.I portion the TV out during the day, just from experience.Leaving them in front of the TV for extended periods is a disaster, they are cranky, angry, and a nightmare to deal with.We just don't use it as an option, we just have to work our jobs around them and each other as best we can.Outdoors is the solution for everything here.

The crying thing in the morning, I would suspect there is an element of habit to that.She knows it gets her what she looks for.I am only saying that from observing things with my own kids especially lately, look at your own behaviour first and foremost.If she escalates to wailing and you react everytime, it has done it's job.

Of course she is sad lately.I am sad too, personally.Actually the last week or so,I have had a lot of "this stupid germ" conversations with my 5 year old.She would be going along with me and then say "this stupid germ, when can we go back to see XYZ, or the playgrounds, it's rubbish".My answer is usually "yep, it is totally crap for me too".I can't fix it for her, much as I would like to, but I can acknowledge that it is a horrible situation and for me too.She is quite accepting of it, she tends to move on then quickly.

Your wife could probably do with keeping her anxiety under control if possible.Do you do any schoolwork or anything?Mine like a routine, they were doing some Joe Wick's PE or Cosmic Kids Yoga in the mornings, bit of schoolwork, out for a walk, home for lunch.I usually do a bit of TV at lunch while the toddler sleeps, gives me an hour or so free.

You will need to talk to your employers and try to arrange a system where you can take turns, either early and late shifts, or logging on at night/evenings or something.If you have annual leave that must be used, consider taking turns at Fridays off, that kind of thing.That is the only way to make this work.

As regards dealing with your 5 year old in general, I find this lady to be very good for tips and advice.It's about how you react more than your child's behaviour, generally.

https://www.janetlansbury.com/

Otherwise you have my utmost sympathy....as far as I can see there are those in charge here who seem to think working parents -indeed parents in general - are capable of keeping this mad juggle up indefinitely, with no help, and no plan for how kids can get their lives back.In the words of my kids, it is completely rubbish.

qwerty13

You need to take charge, and also limit screen time.

Your daughter is currently learning that over-reacting gets her exactly what she wants. And you’re reinforcing this. I know it’s difficult, but she’s behaving like a brat, and you’re rewarding her behaviour in terms of attention, and giving her whatever she wants. This is not good for her. Or you.

Of course your daughter finds current time’s frustrating, but it sounds like you’ve established no rules/boundaries at all.

So much Screen time just adds to the issue in my view. Can you, as suggested by others, change around your working hours? Can you start early and take a 2 hour lunch, and spend time with her?

fits

I’m afraid you won’t want to hear this but you are going to have to take shifts working. It’s just not fair to leave them to their own devices for long periods. And schedule the tv time. We are working on this at the moment with one child. If you schedule it it’s easier to stand ground when it’s demanded.

Now I’m not saying you shouldn’t talk to GP. Absolutely flag it if you are concerned.

LegacyUser

She's five. Hasn't seen her school friends or child minder or grand parents in weeks. She's lacking attention and to make matters worse you're both homemade can't give her that attention. I'm six times her age and would freak out myself if plonked in front of tv half the day.

Her routine is gone and she's gets nearly everything she wants. You're setting self up for trouble. The lock down operation transformation show had some good advice for parents working from home when good kid turns bad. It was one of the earlier episodes. Basically broken down to the kid needed and wanted a routine because that's what they have at school, certain things at certain times.