Freesat / Sky and Saorview - new wiring

jonnybravo

We're currently rewiring our house as part of a renovation. I've researched TV wiring on this site and I just want confirmation that the below will work and is future proofed as can be and I have some questions to clarify. Appreciate any help or pointers people can provide. 

* Install a new satellite dish with a Quatrol LNB and saorview aeriel
* Both will be wired to the attic and connect to a dSCR multiswitch
* From the attic wiring will run to individual rooms. Sitting room will have a Humax Freesat box and Saorview recorder (already have both). Wire from the attic will be split here. Requirement is for both to have recording ability 
* Rest of the rooms will just have a TV at the moment. 
* Cat 6 cables will be run from attic to rooms as well. 

Questions

* For the new Sky Q system will one wire do combined with Saorview? 
* What splitter do I need to separate the feeds in the individual rooms? 
* If I just want Saorview in some of the rooms do I still need a splitter?
* What grade of wiring should I use? 
* Any recommendation for multiswitches / splitters?

Thanks

Jonny

Johnboy1951

The Cat6 should help future proof it for the mid-term anyway.
If possible run the Cat6 in flexible pipe so that it can be replaced if required.

You could also do

Unicable LNB - Sat>IP tuners - tuner server - Cat6 and a client app or device at each TV, thus dispensing with coax altogether, except that coming from LNB & Aerial to tuners in attic or media room.

The Cush

jonnybravo wrote: »

Questions

* For the new Sky Q system will one wire do combined with Saorview? 
* What splitter do I need to separate the feeds in the individual rooms? 
* If I just want Saorview in some of the rooms do I still need a splitter?
* What grade of wiring should I use? 
* Any recommendation for multiswitches / splitters?

Question
- Do you plan to install SkyQ, hence the requirement for a dSCR multiswitch?

I'm almost certain the Humax Freesat box doesn't support SCR. The Humax will require 2 cables for 2 tuner recording/watching.

dSCR multiswitches are an expensive option if you don't currently have a requirement for it or plan to install SkyQ. If you go for a regular multiswitch now there is an add-on unit that can give you dSCR when you require it - https://www.triax.uk/products/satellite/multiswitches/dscr-multiswitches/tmds-42-c-dscr-add-on

The new Arris Freesat boxes appear to have an SCR option (MDU) in the menu but no one has tested the box to see if the option works. A 2 cable wideband LNB feed gives the option of 4 tuners while a standard 2 cable LNB gives the option of 2 tuners.

I would recommend at least 3 co-ax cables to the main TV point which would future proof for Saorview + 2 cable legacy or wideband sat feeds /1 cable dSCR feed. I would also recommend 2 cables to the other TV points. A rewire is only time these cables can be hidden away even if there is no plan to use them now.

Modular sockets are a good way to terminate these cables - https://www.alltrade.co.uk/product-docs/Triax/1662.Pdf
I'd recommend deep back boxes, 35/45mm single or double as required. The deeper back boxes are handy for the bulky co-ax cables behind the faceplate.

Regarding your questions

- Technically a SkyQ dSCR feed should be able to co-exist on the same cable as Saorview as neither frequency range overlaps. In the real world I would prefer 2 separate cables to rule out any potential interference.

I purchased some of these Triax eurogrid modules recently - triplex (TV/Radio/Sat 1) + Sat 2 -, the single feed SAT2 input/output has the letter Q beside the SAT 2 label (SAT2/Q). Appears to be an updated version of the one linked on the Triax site. This would be my choice for a dSCR SkyQ feed with the other input/output for Saorview.

- For splitting a single cable combined feed a screened single cable input diplexer faceplate will do the job, for example https://www.satworld.ie/tv-sat-diplexed-wall-plate-screened.html

- For Saorview only, a diplexer won't be required but I would recommend a diplexer faceplate in any case to have the option available if required in future.

- CT100 satellite grade cable - https://www.cai.org.uk/index.php/contact/downloads/product-certification-schemes/cable-certification/110-cai-certified-cables

- Won't recommend a specific switch but I installed one of these in the last few months, compatible with both quad and quattro LNBs, requires an addition launch amplifier for Saorview if all outputs are connected - https://whytetechnologies.com/products/wm516l

Triax do a range of legacy and dSCR multiswitches - https://www.triax.uk/products/satellite/multiswitches

jonnybravo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

The Cat6 should help future proof it for the mid-term anyway.
If possible run the Cat6 in flexible pipe so that it can be replaced if required.

You could also do

Unicable LNB - Sat>IP tuners - tuner server - Cat6 and a client app or device at each TV, thus dispensing with coax altogether, except that coming from LNB & Aerial to tuners in attic or media room.

Thanks for your response. What type of flexible pipe should be used?

jonnybravo

The Cush wrote: »

Question
- Do you plan to install SkyQ, hence the requirement for a dSCR multiswitch?

I'm almost certain the Humax Freesat box doesn't support SCR. The Humax will require 2 cables for 2 tuner recording/watching.

dSCR multiswitches are an expensive option if you don't currently have a requirement for it or plan to install SkyQ. If you go for a regular multiswitch now there is an add-on unit that can give you dSCR when you require it - https://www.triax.uk/products/satellite/multiswitches/dscr-multiswitches/tmds-42-c-dscr-add-on

The new Arris Freesat boxes appear to have an SCR option (MDU) in the menu but no one has tested the box to see if the option works. A 2 cable wideband LNB feed gives the option of 4 tuners while a standard 2 cable LNB gives the option of 2 tuners.

I would recommend at least 3 co-ax cables to the main TV point which would future proof for Saorview + 2 cable legacy or wideband sat feeds /1 cable dSCR feed. I would also recommend 2 cables to the other TV points. A rewire is only time these cables can be hidden away even if there is no plan to use them now.

Modular sockets are a good way to terminate these cables - https://www.alltrade.co.uk/product-docs/Triax/1662.Pdf
I'd recommend deep back boxes, 35/45mm single or double as required. The deeper back boxes are handy for the bulky co-ax cables behind the faceplate.

Regarding your questions

- Technically a SkyQ dSCR feed should be able to co-exist on the same cable as Saorview as neither frequency range overlaps. In the real world I would prefer 2 separate cables to rule out any potential interference.

I purchased some of these Triax eurogrid modules recently - triplex (TV/Radio/Sat 1) + Sat 2 -, the single feed SAT2 input/output has the letter Q beside the SAT 2 label (SAT2/Q). Appears to be an updated version of the one linked on the Triax site. This would be my choice for a dSCR SkyQ feed with the other input/output for Saorview.

- For splitting a single cable combined feed a screened single cable input diplexer faceplate will do the job, for example https://www.satworld.ie/tv-sat-diplexed-wall-plate-screened.html

- For Saorview only, a diplexer won't be required but I would recommend a diplexer faceplate in any case to have the option available if required in future.

- CT100 satellite grade cable - https://www.cai.org.uk/index.php/contact/downloads/product-certification-schemes/cable-certification/110-cai-certified-cables

- Won't recommend a specific switch but I installed one of these in the last few months, compatible with both quad and quattro LNBs, requires an addition launch amplifier for Saorview if all outputs are connected - https://whytetechnologies.com/products/wm516l

Triax do a range of legacy and dSCR multiswitches - https://www.triax.uk/products/satellite/multiswitches

Wow thanks a lot for the detailed reply.


No not planning on Sky Q / similar in the short term so probably best to go normal multiswitch as you suggest?

I'm a bit confused about the wiring. Is it possible to run one cable and then split it or should I run three cables (two for humax and one for saorview)?

The Cush

jonnybravo wrote: »

I'm a bit confused about the wiring. Is it possible to run one cable and then split it or should I run three cables (two for humax and one for saorview)?

Yes it is possible to run a single cable and combine a single satellite feed and a Saorview feed and split it again at the other end using a diplexer/splitter or a diplexer faceplate like the one I linked to above. Note only a single satellite feed can be carried this way to a single tuner on a satellite receiver, it is not possible to split this single satellite feed between two or more satellite tuners, so at least two cables are required to feed your Humax Freesat box.

I would recommend 3 co-ax cables to the main TV point for separate Saorview and satellite feeds. The two satellite feeds can be used for the two standard feeds to a satellite receiver from an LNB or multiswitch, also the two cables can be used to feed a future SkyQ receiver or Arris Freesat receiver with two wideband feeds from a standard SkyQ wideband LNB or hybrid LNB, note wideband satellite feeds and Saorview cannot share the same cable as the frequency range they both use overlaps.

Good quality satellite grade cable isn't that expensive for a 100m roll and would run enough of it now when the rewire is being done.

Johnboy1951

jonnybravo wrote: »

Thanks for your response. What type of flexible pipe should be used?

It doesn't 'have' to be flexible IF your runs are straight or close to straight.
You know what would work in your situation.

I would try to avoid having joints in the piping, so flexible off a roll seems most appropriate.

Inner dimension should be capable of taking a couple of Cat6 cables without being tight ...... maybe 13mm inner dimension?
IMO, the largest you think you can buy and fit.
You do not know what you might wish to use the duct for in the future.

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

- Technically a SkyQ dSCR feed should be able to co-exist on the same cable as Saorview as neither frequency range overlaps. In the real world I would prefer 2 separate cables to rule out any potential interference.

I purchased some of these Triax eurogrid modules recently - triplex (TV/Radio/Sat 1) + Sat 2 -, the single feed SAT2 input/output has the letter Q beside the SAT 2 label (SAT2/Q). Appears to be an updated version of the one linked on the Triax site. This would be my choice for a dSCR SkyQ feed with the other input/output for Saorview.

I found this interesting unit in a search from Unitron - Johansson 9725 SFU dCSS Switch

It takes 2 feeds from a wideband LNB and converts them to 2 dSCR feeds or 2 legacy feeds or 1 of each feed as required and can be combined with a terrestrial TV/radio feed.

Suitable for use with standard quad modules or quad wallplates

Irish Steve

Did a big upgrade to the main room here recently, already have a multi switch to provide signal to other rooms, both Saorview and Sky+ HD, between network, and satellite feeds, there were 11 cables run into the new room. The issue to watch out for is that a lot of things like smart TV and the like can use Network, some use WiFi, others use wired, and that can cause some issues, especially if you don't have the space for a small router or network switch in the room, and depending on the position of the items, you may need some power distribution as well.

Family room was upgraded, and now has LG smart TV, which needed Saorview, Satellite feed, Multiple HDMI cables from Sky, soundbar, Blue ray and Ariva Sat/Saorview box.
Sky + HD, 3 coax, 2 for incoming, one for outgoing feed to another room, and Network, HDMI to TV
Ariva 150, Sat feed, Saorview, Network, (not Wifi, ) and HDMI to TV
LG sound bar, HDMI and Wired Network.
LG Blue Ray, HDMI and Network,

The one that can catch you out is HDMI, as the ends are pre formed on the cables, so they won't go through ducting easily, which can be a pain.

At a future date, I can upgrade to Sky Q, it will need an expansion to the existing multi switch to make it work with the Q system, but the rest of it should be unchanged.

With this number of devices in a relatively small area, there's a case to be made for avoiding use of Wireless Networking, as that can become stressed if there are other devices like phones, or tablets in the same area.

jonnybravo

Irish Steve wrote: »

Did a big upgrade to the main room here recently, already have a multi switch to provide signal to other rooms, both Saorview and Sky+ HD, between network, and satellite feeds, there were 11 cables run into the new room. The issue to watch out for is that a lot of things like smart TV and the like can use Network, some use WiFi, others use wired, and that can cause some issues, especially if you don't have the space for a small router or network switch in the room, and depending on the position of the items, you may need some power distribution as well.

Family room was upgraded, and now has LG smart TV, which needed Saorview, Satellite feed, Multiple HDMI cables from Sky, soundbar, Blue ray and Ariva Sat/Saorview box.
Sky + HD, 3 coax, 2 for incoming, one for outgoing feed to another room, and Network, HDMI to TV
Ariva 150, Sat feed, Saorview, Network, (not Wifi, ) and HDMI to TV
LG sound bar, HDMI and Wired Network.
LG Blue Ray, HDMI and Network,

The one that can catch you out is HDMI, as the ends are pre formed on the cables, so they won't go through ducting easily, which can be a pain.

At a future date, I can upgrade to Sky Q, it will need an expansion to the existing multi switch to make it work with the Q system, but the rest of it should be unchanged.

With this number of devices in a relatively small area, there's a case to be made for avoiding use of Wireless Networking, as that can become stressed if there are other devices like phones, or tablets in the same area.

Thanks for your reply. Very helpful. For the HDMI cabling was that just in the room? You didn't link anything by HDMI from one room to another?

Irish Steve

HDMI is all in one room, but there are devices out there now that can be connected room to room via Cat6 cable to propogate HDMI, and that's a lot easier than trying to get HDMI into trunking on the walls. I am looking to go that way when the remote set in the other room is upgraded, as it will then have HDMI, so a splitter on the Sky box and cables to the second set will make a difference, and remote operation will still be possible using the magic eye.