New i7 build

galvo_clare

Hi

8 years ago I asked for help in speccing an i5 office machine. It was going strong until the other day when I finally got around to upgrading it with an i7 chip I bought.
It turns on but I have nothing from the video, no POST beeps either.
I've no doubt I'll fix it but maybe it's time to start from scratch again.
What I'm missing from my current machine are USB 3.0 sockets on the front and ideally I'd like USB-C but especially an SD card slot too.
I've only added memory and hard drives, including an SSD to my current box so it's served me well.
I'd like a quiet PC again. The current build has a big quietpc heatsink - wondering can that be reused?
My new build will have to accommodate 2 HDs an SSD and a DVD-Writer so a mini tower is called for.

1. What is your budget? [€700 ish I reckon. Flexible up or down]

2. What will be the main purpose of the computer? [Office duties, Adobe Indesign/Photoshop, bit of video editing, Programming (mainly Visual Studio but there may be other languages)] (If gaming include which games)

3. Do you need a copy of Windows? [No]

4. Can you use any parts from an old computer? [Hard drives/DVD-Writer, keyboard/mouse/speakers]

5. Do you need a monitor? [No] Have a nice 1080p with DVI interface

5a. If yes, what size do you need. [19'/20'/22'/24'/etc.]

5b. If no, what resolution is your current monitor and do you plan to upgrade in the near future? [1920x1080 No]

6. Do you need any of these peripherals? [No. Would ideally like SD card slot built in]

7. Are you willing to try overclocking? [No]

8. How can you pay? [Bank Transfer/Credit Card/Debit card/PayPal]

9. When are you purchasing? Soon

10. If you need help building it, where are you based? Should be OK but Clare

TIA

TitianGerm

Why do you want an i7 over a Ryzen build?

On your current machine does the new CPU you bought have integrated graphics or were you using a GPU previously as well?

K.O.Kiki

When you say it turns on, do your fans spin up?

I'm assuming you bought an i7-3770 or i7-4770. Might just be a dead CPU.

galvo_clare

TitianGerm wrote: »

Why do you want an i7 over a Ryzen build?

On your current machine does the new CPU you bought have integrated graphics or were you using a GPU previously as well?

I suppose I've always been used to Intel PCs but yes, I'd consider a Ryzen if it offered more bang for buck.

I have a graphics card on the current machine - quite an old one but it was decent enough in its day.
I've tried both the graphics card and the motherboard outputs but I'm getting nothing from either.
Didn't get around to seeing if I have to do anything to switch it back to the motherboard graphics or try the VGA output but I'll get to both of those.

Will remove the RAM to see if there's a seating problem and obviously throw the old i5 back in even though it's a right faff removing the heatsink. I suppose I'd be OK to run it for a few minutes without the sink for testing purposes.

galvo_clare

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

When you say it turns on, do your fans spin up?

I'm assuming you bought an i7-3770 or i7-4770. Might just be a dead CPU.

It’s been a few months since I bought it but I checked compatibility at the time.
It’s an i7-3770. Bought secondhand so it could well be dead alright.
Yes the fans are working. Everything seems normal but nothing on the screen.

galvo_clare

sugarman wrote: »

What motherboard do you have? / What i5 did you have, a 2xxx series? If so, it could just need a bios update.

It's an ASRock Z68 Pro3 Gen3 with a i5-2500K

BloodBath

The board probably needs a bios update to run that chip. You would have to use the 2500k to do it.

Read up on BIOS updating. It can brick the board if you do it wrong.

galvo_clare

BloodBath wrote: »

The board probably needs a bios update to run that chip. You would have to use the 2500k to do it.

Read up on BIOS updating. It can brick the board if you do it wrong.

Cool, thanks. Will do that. I’m sure I’ve updated that bios since i got it but I’ll throw the old chip back and check the latest version.

djan

galvo_clare wrote: »

I suppose I've always been used to Intel PCs but yes, I'd consider a Ryzen if it offered more bang for buck.

I have a graphics card on the current machine - quite an old one but it was decent enough in its day.
I've tried both the graphics card and the motherboard outputs but I'm getting nothing from either.
Didn't get around to seeing if I have to do anything to switch it back to the motherboard graphics or try the VGA output but I'll get to both of those.

Will remove the RAM to see if there's a seating problem and obviously throw the old i5 back in even though it's a right faff removing the heatsink. I suppose I'd be OK to run it for a few minutes without the sink for testing purposes.

If going new, ryzen is the only way really. Much better bang for buck. There are some new 3rd gen 4core/8thread processors coming out which could be an option.

*** please do not in any circumstances attempt flashing bios or using pc for longer than a few seconds without a heatsink on the cpu. At the very least use some thermal paste and hold it down with your hand. Depending on CPU, some will only last a few seconds before the overheat protection will shut it off.

galvo_clare

galvo_clare wrote: »

Cool, thanks. Will do that. I’m sure I’ve updated that bios since i got it but I’ll throw the old chip back and check the latest version.

Well, progress of sorts.
I updated the bios, put in the new i7 and set the boot priority to my SSD, the only drive I connected.
The Bios sees the ssd but when I try to boot it can't find a system partition.

I put in a temporary HD from another machine and it booted grand. Funnily with this drive, I had the option in the BIOS of either a EUFI mode or a SATA mode. Think it booted under UEFI.

With the SSD, I only see the drive with no UEFI/SATA options.
So is this a UEFI issue? I see there's mention in the BIOS of flashing an updated UEFI so that's my next port of call but in the meantime any ideas?

galvo_clare

djan wrote: »

If going new, ryzen is the only way really. Much better bang for buck. There are some new 3rd gen 4core/8thread processors coming out which could be an option.

OK, can we throw Ryzen into the mix too? I'd be interested to see what a new build could give me, particularly if I got the sockets I wanted on the front.

djan wrote: »

*** please do not in any circumstances attempt flashing bios or using pc for longer than a few seconds without a heatsink on the cpu. At the very least use some thermal paste and hold it down with your hand. Depending on CPU, some will only last a few seconds before the overheat protection will shut it off.

Thanks for that. I did some reading on it and it was generally considered to be a very poor idea. I took the extra time to put the heatsink back even though it's a bit of a pain.

galvo_clare

Latest is that the i7 is in and working but it won’t recognise the boot drive.
I’ve tried running Win 10 disk repair on it but it made no difference. Puzzled now. Will I need to reinstall Windows? I would have thought a processor swap wouldn’t cause those issues.

galvo_clare

sugarman wrote: »

The processor usually wouldn't, but a bios would.

I've had this issue before on my old z68/2500k rig and I can't really recall what I did to resolve it.

Have you had a good look in the bios at the settings that something is selected that shouldn't be? Like IDE over AHCI?

Can't see anything obvious. What's slightly concerning is that I'm not sure it picked up the usb drive and the behavious is inconsistent.
At the moment it can't see any drive and I've changed nothing.
I'll have another look tomorrow.
I've taken the SSD out to take a full backup just in case.

galvo_clare

sugarman wrote: »

Hmm.. sure if you've backed up the SSD no harm wiping it now and doing a clean install to see how it behaves tomorrow. You shouldn't have to but sure if it fixes it, it fixes it.

I've everything taken off the SSD that I need but when I plug the SSD in I don't even get the initial BIOS/UEFI screen up.
I'm sure I'll get this thing working again, even with the i5 chip back in it but it's time for a new PC.
Can anyone suggest a spec based on my OP using an i7 or Ryzen?

TIA

galvo_clare

galvo_clare wrote: »

I've everything taken off the SSD that I need but when I plug the SSD in I don't even get the initial BIOS/UEFI screen up.
I'm sure I'll get this thing working again, even with the i5 chip back in it but it's time for a new PC.
Can anyone suggest a spec based on my OP using an i7 or Ryzen?

TIA

Ok, I've just knocked a spec up based mainly on the feature in this month's Computer Shopper

Ryzen 7 3700x £260 Amazon
ASRock B450 Pro4 £76 ebuyer
Corsair RM750i PSU £140 scan.co.uk
M.2 Kingston A2000 500GB £83 ebuyer
Thermaltake View 37 (Case) £60 ebuyer
(The case has the USB slots I want on the front but no sd card. None of the
listed cases appear to have any 5.25" bays - does that preclude fitting a DVD drive?
Memory £70 ish for 16GB

That comes to almost £700 or about €800 inc VAT
For comparison for around €800 + VAT and I can get the VAT back I could buy an i7 based PC
https://www.businessdirect.btireland.com/products/lenovo-thinkstation-p330-tower-gen-2-intel-core-i7-9700-8gb-256gb-ssd-windows-10-professional-64-bit-30cy0023uk-FGJJ.html

It's only 8GB and 256gb SSD but it has all the slots I want on the front and can take my HD drives.

Any thoughts?

TIA

K.O.Kiki

galvo_clare wrote: »

Ok, I've just knocked a spec up based mainly on the feature in this month's Computer Shopper

Ryzen 7 3700x £260 Amazon
ASRock B450 Pro4 £76 ebuyer
Corsair RM750i PSU £140 scan.co.uk
M.2 Kingston A2000 500GB £83 ebuyer
Thermaltake View 37 (Case) £60 ebuyer
(The case has the USB slots I want on the front but no sd card. None of the
listed cases appear to have any 5.25" bays - does that preclude fitting a DVD drive?
Memory £70 ish for 16GB

That comes to almost £700 or about €800 inc VAT
For comparison for around €800 + VAT and I can get the VAT back I could buy an i7 based PC
https://www.businessdirect.btireland.com/products/lenovo-thinkstation-p330-tower-gen-2-intel-core-i7-9700-8gb-256gb-ssd-windows-10-professional-64-bit-30cy0023uk-FGJJ.html

It's only 8GB and 256gb SSD but it has all the slots I want on the front and can take my HD drives.

Any thoughts?

TIA

Don't buy that i7 lol

I'll price up a build in a moment.

K.O.Kiki

PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/BYN39G

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (£155.52 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI B450M PRO-VDH MAX Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£73.48 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£69.98 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Blue SN550 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£69.98 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 550 - 512 4 GB Video Card (£88.00 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1100 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (£42.40 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: Cooler Master MWE Bronze V2 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£47.00 @ Amazon UK)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer (Purchased For £0.00)
Custom: Akasa AK-ICR-32 3.5" Front Panel With Type-C and Type-A USB Ports (£18.52)
Total: £564.88
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-07 18:17 BST+0100

Ryzen 3600 instead of 3700X as you need a GPU to see a picture.

Case has 2x 5.25" slots so you can fit the USB-C front panel & your DVD reader.
Regarding the SD card, no DIY cases include them. And they break anyways.
Just buy a USB hub.

galvo_clare

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

PCPartPicker Part List: https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/BYN39G

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor (£155.52 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI B450M PRO-VDH MAX Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£73.48 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory (£69.98 @ Amazon UK)
Storage: Western Digital Blue SN550 500 GB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive (£69.98 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 550 - 512 4 GB Video Card (£88.00 @ Amazon UK)
Case: Fractal Design Core 1100 MicroATX Mini Tower Case (£42.40 @ Amazon UK)
Power Supply: Cooler Master MWE Bronze V2 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply (£47.00 @ Amazon UK)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer (Purchased For £0.00)
Custom: Akasa AK-ICR-32 3.5" Front Panel With Type-C and Type-A USB Ports (£18.52)
Total: £564.88
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-05-07 18:17 BST+0100

Ryzen 3600 instead of 3700X as you need a GPU to see a picture.

Case has 2x 5.25" slots so you can fit the USB-C front panel & your DVD reader.
Regarding the SD card, no DIY cases include them. And they break anyways.
Just buy a USB hub.

Thanks. Really appreciate that and it looks ideal.
Can I ask where are you sourcing the AKASA panel and how is the DVD writer coming in at 0.00 - that’s some clever purchasing there!
EDIT: can see that the case comes with USB 3.0 sockets so probably don't need the extra panel. Can do without usb-c.

I can reuse the video card on my current box. Not sure I understand the differences between the two processors but I’ll research that later.

I’d say I’m 95% there and I’d prefer to build my own.
How does a Ryzen 5 compare to an i7 - is it worth going for a Ryzen 7 and could that just drop into that build?

K.O.Kiki

Ryzen 5: 6 cores, 12 threads
Core i7: 8 cores, 8 threads
Ryzen 7: 8 cores, 16 threads

In video editing I'd take more threads, but up to you if you want to pay extra for Ryzen 7. If you're going to use render more than 2-3 times a month, it could work out.
Since a bit of budget has opened up, I'd spring for a better motherboard, too.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/pBr39G

Priced the DVD drive as 0.00 as you said you'd reuse.

galvo_clare

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Ryzen 5: 6 cores, 12 threads
Core i7: 8 cores, 8 threads
Ryzen 7: 8 cores, 16 threads

In video editing I'd take more threads, but up to you if you want to pay extra for Ryzen 7. If you're going to use render more than 2-3 times a month, it could work out.
Since a bit of budget has opened up, I'd spring for a better motherboard, too.

https://uk.pcpartpicker.com/list/pBr39G

Priced the DVD drive as 0.00 as you said you'd reuse.

Ah grand. Thanks. How would the Ryzen 5 compare with my current i5 do you reckon?

galvo_clare

galvo_clare wrote: »

Ah grand. Thanks. How would the Ryzen 5 compare with my current i5 do you reckon?

I see the 7 only adds around £100. Reckon that would be worth it.

galvo_clare

Right, I'm committed. The case is ordered.

The only problem is that the PSU is out of stock at Amazon. Any suitable alternative?
Would prefer Amazon as delivery with Prime seems to be working well at the moment.

EDIT: I suppose I could use my existing PSU at least for now. It was a good one at the time.

Also, I think the CPU comes with a cooler - is that right?
EDIT2: Yes it does.

Homelander

The Ryzen 5 is night and day with your old i5, twice as powerful. The Ryzen 7 has more cores/threads which would help longevity in your uses, but obviously it depends on how heavy a user you are.

You will see a titanic difference between your i5 and Ryzen 5 in casual editing/rendering use, but less so between Ryzen 5 and Ryzen 7 in general. The more you're working on heavy productivity tasks, the more you'd notice the differences really.

It's hard to gauge when people say they need a machine for editing or whatever. Person A could mean "I'll be mostly browsing the web but doing a bit of editing/rendering every now and again" while person B could mean "I'll be editing and rendering on this machine at least several hours per day".

If you're a heavy user the 3700X is worth it, if it's the former where it's just something you'll be doing the odd time or in small amounts, the Ryzen 3600 is an exceptionally good processor.

That Lenovo posted earlier is fine too though obviously when you're not self building you're paying a premium, and the cost of a full Windows 10 license is included too. Really building a new PC now that's doing any sort of editing/productivity/rendering type tasks you would want 16GB of ram plus a 512GB SSD as a minimum.

I wouldn't buy an i7-9700 over a 3700X personally but the 9700 is still an exceptionally strong processor.

You mentioned being able to re-use an old video card. This is fine but a newer video card will support newer features and some editing tools may benefit from having GPU hardware support - you will have to research this yourself and find out if it is applicable in your case.

If not - re-use your old GPU. If yes - probably something like an Nvidia GTX1650 as a baseline.

galvo_clare

It's as well I have the new machine ordered. The old one seems to be bricked.
I put the i5 back in and it's not showing the BIOS screen, even with no discs plugged in.
Pity, it was a good machine. I'll reuse the PSU and DVD-RW in the new box and move on.

galvo_clare

Just an update on this and thanks for the advice.

I went for the Ryzen 7 build as specced.
I was let down by two suppliers for the case and Mobo so I ended up buying a different case and the mobo from cclonline. I chose the CiT Classic Micro Case as it featured 2 x usb 3.0 and 2 x usb 2.0 on the front and also gave me two 5.25 and a 3.5 external slot. Think it looks nice too.


Unfortunately, it came with a PSU which went straight into the bin but it was a cheap case so I don't really mind.

The build was surprisingly easy. Given that I'd taken apart my i5/i7 so many times recently I was in the zone for building. My only mistake was installing the 3.5" hard drives before putting in the motherboard. They fouled the heatsink when trying to install it so I had to whip the drives out again.
This case is slightly smaller than my previous one so space was tight, particularly getting power to the HDs but with a bit of swearing it was grand. In all, taking my time, the basic build took about an hour and the PC fired up first time.
There's a very cool feature on the mobo so updating the BIOS only needs a button press and it works even without processor or memory, although both were installed. The update only takes five minutes. My only issue with the BIOS is that the mouse is incredibly slow. Seems to be a common problem and there may be a setting to improve things. If not, I'll live with it.

Installing Windows was a breeze and incredibly fast. I immediately updated the Radeon video driver and then went to install the mobo drivers, one of which, described as the chipset driver, started to install the exact same version of the video driver that I had just installed.
I let it go in case it had other bits to install afterwards but it didn't appear to have.
After that, the PC became sluggish with the mouse lagging badly and overall it felt awful. I took no chances and zapped the drive to reinstall and all has been well since.

It's slightly louder than I'd like but I can experiment with fan settings to quieten it. If that doesn't work, I'll investigate a quieter cpu cooler which is where the noise seems to be coming from. The case has a single 80mm fan - I'd have preferred something bigger and I thought the noise might be coming from there but it seems to run very quietly. If I need to upgrade that it's a cheap fix.
The only other thing I'll look at is a front panel card reader. I've got a PCI-e card on order to give me the second usb 3.0 header that I need. Once that's in and tested I'll make up my mind. I have a decent usb 3.0 card reader/hub that will do me 'til then and I might even leave it at that.

Overall, the build went very smoothly and I'm delighted with the results which will hopefully be better once I've tricked around with it a bit.