The idiosyncrasies of the fly fishers mind

whelzer

Tippet "viewabilty" is area we could debate....

If it gets interesting maybe mods could create a separate thread. There is a lot of research and opinions which show that fish (ie trout) seeing a tippet is not an issue. There is probably as much research and as many opinions the other way so it probably just comes down to what you believe.

I am in the it does not matter camp. The amount of stuff (****e) a trout sees in in a short period is ridiculous. Stones, branches, leaves, footballs, plastic bottles, used toliet roll - you get the idea. All float past a trout 1000s maybe even 100s of 1000s times a day. Do any of these directly stop trout feeding - I think not.

I seen seen fish take real flies in all sorts of circumstances (some involving toilet roll!).

A length of 0.12mm tippet is not going put it off floating or not.

For me what counts is drag, so an unbalanced tippet (0.2mm) on a size 22 midge nymph is going to cause the nymph to drift un naturally, ie look a bit dodge. There is a decent amount proper scientific evidence to say that trout (and most other predators inc mammals) have a very simple, go/no go trigger where prey is concerned. If it looks like food and acts like food trout will give it a go.

Did you ever keep a trout (I have not done so in years btw) and find it full of stones, bits it twigs, etc all taken for snails and cased caddis. At the time each one simply looked and behaved like food....

Just my opinion... right with that I'm gonna tie a few of what ever Davie McPhails latest is (search youtube).

ihaveadarksoul

whelzer wrote: »

Tippet "viewabilty" is area we could debate....

If it gets interesting maybe mods could create a separate thread. There is a lot of research and opinions which show that fish (ie trout) seeing a tippet is not an issue. There is probably as much research and as many opinions the other way so it probably just comes down to what you believe.

I am in the it does not matter camp. The amount of stuff (****e) a trout sees in in a short period is ridiculous. Stones, branches, leaves, footballs, plastic bottles, used toliet roll - you get the idea. All float past a trout 1000s maybe even 100s of 1000s times a day. Do any of these directly stop trout feeding - I think not.

I seen seen fish take real flies in all sorts of circumstances (some involving toilet roll!).

A length of 0.12mm tippet is not going put it off floating or not.

For me what counts is drag, so an unbalanced tippet (0.2mm) on a size 22 midge nymph is going to cause the nymph to drift un naturally, ie look a bit dodge. There is a decent amount proper scientific evidence to say that trout (and most other predators inc mammals) have a very simple, go/no go trigger where prey is concerned. If it looks like food and acts like food trout will give it a go.

Did you ever keep a trout (I have not done so in years btw) and find it full of stones, bits it twigs, etc all taken for snails and cased caddis. At the time each one simply looked and behaved like food....

Just my opinion... right with that I'm gonna tie a few of what ever Davie McPhails latest is (search youtube).

That’s a very interesting point of view. I gues main point is not to spook fish with wrong casting but deliver it correctly

efanton

whelzer wrote: »

Tippet "viewabilty" is area we could debate....


Did you ever keep a trout (I have not done so in years btw) and find it full of stones, bits it twigs, etc all taken for snails and cased caddis. At the time each one simply looked and behaved like food....

I have seen that, but always assumed it was trout feeding on caddis lava. They can make a case of small stones as well as vegetation.

You make an extremely good point about drag though. I have experience days of catching nothing, switching to a lighter tippet and suddenly getting a bite on most casts.
I have also seen days where a size 18 midge catches nothing, but another fisherman having great success with a size 22.
These are the joys and heartache of being a fly fisher. Some days it doesnt matter, you put a fly, any fly, in the right spot and the trout will have it. Other days you trawl through your box trying to find the right fly that is the right size.

SeaFields

Just an experience I vividly recall. I was fishing a pool full of freshly run seatrout awhile back. I was using drennan double strength and my usual medicine fly on its own. Figure of 8 retrieve. I was not getting a touch. Changed the leader to sub surface and instantly started getting knocks and landing fish. My theory, whether true or complete cods wallop, was the double strength was catching whatever light was there.

The idea of the fly moving unnaturally depending on the leader is a sound one - more so for fishing the tiny sizes. I have heard that plenty of times.

whelzer

Davies latest tying, if there is a human on the planet that get as much onto a hook using 8/0 thread and getting them to look so damn good i would be amazed...

For more musings on the reasons why trout may or may not behave, I would highly recommend Bob Wyatt's books, Trout Hunting and What Trout Want.

His thoughts and ideas whilst controversial to purists make a lot ofo sense to me.

Also, his flies are bloody good, DHE for starters. Quite hard to tie correctly (ie sit up well) but there is nothing to beat it at the start of a summers evening sedge hatch. Hopefully I'll get a shot at using one in 2020...

whelzer

SeaFields wrote: »

Just an experience I vividly recall. I was fishing a pool full of freshly run seatrout awhile back. I was using drennan double strength and my usual medicine fly on its own. Figure of 8 retrieve. I was not getting a touch. Changed the leader to sub surface and instantly started getting knocks and landing fish. My theory, whether true or complete cods wallop, was the double strength was catching whatever light was there.

The idea of the fly moving unnaturally depending on the leader is a sound one - more so for fishing the tiny sizes. I have heard that plenty of times.

I love the drive home pondering such things...not taking away from your thoughts but....

I fish a lot with a buddy, he generally out fishes me and it tormented me for years! Mid session we have swapped places in the river, fly boxes, rods, tippet spools you name it.

My flies are better than his. He still tends to out fish me. Last year we swapped rods almost mid cast, he struggled with my fly tied on by me. I did ok with his. We changed flies and same pattern occurred.

It turns out the knot I use to tie my flies on was ever so slightly different to his and I always had a very small kink in the tippet immediately after the fly. I changed my knot and my catch rate improved. Even now I have to deliberately tie my flies on "wrong" if you know what I mean.

This could be total tosh but I'm convinced.

So to you Seafields, could your knot or tippet have been "bad" before you tried the new material?

efanton

whelzer wrote: »

Davies latest tying, if there is a human on the planet that get as much onto a hook using 8/0 thread and getting them to look so damn good i would be amazed...

For more musings on the reasons why trout may or may not behave, I would highly recommend Bob Wyatt's books, Trout Hunting and What Trout Want.

His thoughts and ideas whilst controversial to purists make a lot ofo sense to me.

Also, his flies are bloody good, DHE for starters. Quite hard to tie correctly (ie sit up well) but there is nothing to beat it at the start of a summers evening sedge hatch. Hopefully I'll get a shot at using one in 2020...

I have an uncle who swears blind that a new or neatly tied fly is useless.

He has no more than 20 flies in his box, and they all look like they have been through the wars. He waded chest deep across river Nore in just his underpants to recover one of his flies that got caught in a bush. Most would have just broke the line and started with a new tippet and fly. Thats how convinced he is that old well worn flies are the best. Absolutely comical to watch, sadly that was before smart phones and youtube.

DogfoxCork

Mach Two wrote: »

On the subject of tippets. What kind of knot do ye use to join the tippet to the leader.

when im using my 7wt single handed rod i use a perfection loop knot to make a loop to loop connection. https://www.animatedknots.com/perfection-loop-knot
I do the same on my switch rod when connecting to a rio versileader end loop. i usually use a non slip loop knot or a uni knot https://www.animatedknots.com/uni-knot https://www.animatedknots.com/rapala-knot (same looped connection just different knot, depends on what mood im in!) for the fly too as it swims more naturally.

SeaFields

Mod As suggested I have moved some posts from ihaveadarksoul's thread to this new thread. Let us ponder....

Lewis_Benson

I'd agree OP.
Similarly when trolling on the large loughs for trout and other predatory species, i'd often be using quite visible leaders and trace materials which stand out in the water.

I think for the most part , fish aren't all that bothered, and home in on the fly or lure.

richj

Hi Guys, new to this forum but I'll give me 2 cents worth;

I spend a lot of time when fishing lately wondering if the latest piece of fluorocarbon I have tied to the end of my tapered leader could be effecting the way a fish looks at the fly? But then, I cast my mind back 25 years ago when I first started fly fishing, I was using a second hand Shakespeare fiber glass rod with little or no feel, a fly line that was god knows how old with whatever bit of "Leader" was lying around tied to the end of it and I still caught my fair share of fish!

Sometime I wonder do we over think the situation?