Fencer problem

TheFarrier

Advice please.
Bullocks into the yard the last 2 evenings. They have plenty grass and water, and the physical fence is good and strong too. But the shock could do with being better, so I went about earthing it it a bit better this evening.

Drove three 6foot galvanise earth rods and a new wire from them to the fencer.

Now the shock is even worse than what it was before when it was only earthed to a bit of a bar a foot long.

Fence tester is gone walkabout so don’t know exactly what it’s at but up to now I could just about catch the fence but couldn’t hold it but now with the new earth rods I can hardly feel a tickle.

Area fenced is about 12 acres with a fencer fit to do a 20 acre area.

Before i go and buy a bigger fencer tomoro have ye any tricks I could try to remedy the situation.

whelan2

You might need to put some water on the earth bars. Have you walked the fence? I had a bad shock in one of my fences this last while. Found the problem today. Wire touching sheep wire. Great relief when you find the problem

49801

Water be worth a go alright. Turn water hose on for an hour!

Think if you touch the earth bars yourself and you get a bang/tickle is a sign the earthing not being ok. On the other hand if you feel nothing it’s working well. Better again if you’ve a voltmeter to check. Or I am talking rubbish :-)

Danzy

Sounds like it is touching iron, that said if you are in a dry part of the country it may be the earth bar ground needs soaking, that made an awful big difference in 2018 drought.

Probably not though as you'd have experienced that before.

Can you half the area fenced, its splits here at the bottom so if I take it off there I can feel if a half is weaker.

50HX

Get a loan of a fencer first

Plug in and see where you are then...nothing else has changed, if you still have an issue you need to look at spacing earth bars properly

I'd do this before wetting the ground around the bars first

TheFarrier

50HX wrote: »

Get a loan of a fencer first

Plug in and see where you are then...nothing else has changed, if you still have an issue you need to look at spacing earth bars properly

I'd do this before wetting the ground around the bars first

Wish I’d seen this earlier. Earth bars are spaced 10ft apart.
I’ve wet the area around the earths this evening, seemed to improve the thing a bit but I’ll get another fencer tomoro and see does that make a difference

Thanks all

amacca

TheFarrier wrote: »

Wish I’d seen this earlier. Earth bars are spaced 10ft apart.
I’ve wet the area around the earths this evening, seemed to improve the thing a bit but I’ll get another fencer tomoro and see does that make a difference

Thanks all

Is it definitely connected properly? i.e. earth connection on fencer unit actually going to earth rods...

are there any lights on the fencer unit?....if so what are they doing? are any not lighting at all and they should be....

what brand is it? cheetah, pel etc

TheFarrier

amacca wrote: »

Is it definitely connected properly? i.e. earth connection on fencer unit actually going to earth rods...

are there any lights on the fencer unit?....if so what are they doing? are any not lighting at all and they should be....

what brand is it? cheetah, pel etc

Yep all the connections are right, they were my first port of call to try fix the issue. All lights are running as normal, it’s a Gallagher fencer

Water John

What is its Joule rating? The lighter models cannot tolerate any earthing on the line. That might at an insulator.
I put my hand on a stake and got a shock. A bit of mud had landed on the insulator. Some types of insulator can develop cracks and leak shock.

TheFarrier

Water John wrote: »

What is its Joule rating? The lighter models cannot tolerate any earthing on the line. That might at an insulator.
I put my hand on a stake and got a shock. A bit of mud had landed on the insulator. Some types of insulator can develop cracks and leak shock.

No idea I’ll have a look in the morning

nagel

things to try, without the voltmeter

listen the sound of the fencer disconnect the line and see if the sound changes, if it doesn't change it could be a fencer problem

hold the line away from the terminal and gradually move it towards it, if you get a large spark as you get close to the terminal
its likely your line is earthing

_Brian

Maybe disconnect the fence from the energiser and see if the shock is better ?

That will tell you if the fence is the problem.

If the shock is still poor test as above by holding an earth rod and touch the ground, you shouldn’t get any shock from the earth.

Get a fence tester, your only guessing without one !!

whelan2

OP did you get sorted?

TheFarrier

whelan2 wrote: »

OP did you get sorted?

Short answer is no.

After I put down the earth rods, the shock hadn’t much improved, so I fired a few buckets of water down around the earth rods. The reading on a Gallagher tester was reading 2.3 before water, and 3.5 after.

Results so far is the friesian bullocks are staying put now, the 2 Angus b*****ds are still outside the fence half the time but they won’t leave the others so they’re not going far. They seem to come and go as they please, half the time they’re where they should be and half the time they are outside the fence looking to be left in.
It would be a fine thing if the hoors would at least knock the wire where they’re going out at least I’d know then where the weak spot is but the fence is spot on to look at it.

I’ve the fencer now running just the field they’re in, pressed the battery fencer back into service to keep an eye on the horses

Could my fencer be gone weak?? Have it maybe 15 years now

Water John

The AAs are probably just dipping under the wire and taking the hit on their backs.
Remember seeing a number locally for some guy who used to repair fencers and sell reconditioned ones, so maybe they can go weak.

I did buy a Forcefield Mains on line. Guy in Clare sells them but I think they're a Polish model rebranded. Does the job fine. Have two battery Gallaghers as well.
Battery fencers won't put up with much earthing the wire.

Good loser

Seems to me the fence is earthing - probably on a bit of steel.
If you haven't a tester get a loan of one. Try it first at the terminal and then progressively along the fence line.

TheFarrier

Water John wrote: »

The AAs are probably just dipping under the wire and taking the hit on their backs.
Remember seeing a number locally for some guy who used to repair fencers and sell reconditioned ones, so maybe they can go weak.

I did buy a Forcefield Mains on line. Guy in Clare sells them but I think they're a Polish model rebranded. Does the job fine. Have two battery Gallaghers as well.
Battery fencers won't put up with much earthing the wire.

2 strands of wire around the whole field, with a serious strain on it, it pings like a guitar string when you tip it. Can’t figure it.

Thanks for all replies

whelan2

I had a problem with mine yesterday. I walked the fence and couldn't find anything wrong. I then checked the fence unit itself. The connection were the earth wire goes onto the unit was loose. I tightened it and it was back working properly

cjpm

Lightning can wreck fencers. We had a Gallagher that the ticking sound was gone quiet in. Bull used to graze under wire while it was resting on his back. Sent it away to be repaired. As good as new now.

epfff

cjpm wrote: »

Lightning can wreck fencers. We had a Gallagher that the ticking sound was gone quiet in. Bull used to graze under wire while it was resting on his back. Sent it away to be repaired. As good as new now.

Wher you send it off to

Bass Reeves

OP, it's a matter of isolating sections. First check the fencer with nothing on it. Connect to earth and check at point where it first connects to fence, disconnect from fence first.

Get someone to stay at fencer to turn on and off and go through fence section by section. It ideal if you can take out sections. Use gate points to isolate by using string or role to hold in place.

If it not the earth it a virtual full earth on the line. But you need to check to see if it is the earth. So disconnect all the farm from the first point and check it there

Mortelaro

TheFarrier wrote: »

Short answer is no.

After I put down the earth rods, the shock hadn’t much improved, so I fired a few buckets of water down around the earth rods. The reading on a Gallagher tester was reading 2.3 before water, and 3.5 after.

Results so far is the friesian bullocks are staying put now, the 2 Angus b*****ds are still outside the fence half the time but they won’t leave the others so they’re not going far. They seem to come and go as they please, half the time they’re where they should be and half the time they are outside the fence looking to be left in.
It would be a fine thing if the hoors would at least knock the wire where they’re going out at least I’d know then where the weak spot is but the fence is spot on to look at it.

I’ve the fencer now running just the field they’re in, pressed the battery fencer back into service to keep an eye on the horses

Could my fencer be gone weak?? Have it maybe 15 years now

I presume you've tested it at the line where it first joins the fence
If its poor there,then the problem is still the fence or the earth
If it's full there,the problem is down the field

Mortelaro

I've one of these wifi plugs on my fence by the way
It means I can turn on and off the fence while down the field from my phone
They're around €30

Lime Tree Farm

epfff wrote: »

Wher you send it off to

I go back to Dairygold, where it was purchased, and they pass it on to the Gallagher rep.

I returned a battery fencer, I think it was shorted by the + and - terminals touching, leads swinging loose, and not turning off the fencer before removing it.

I was disappointed when they failed to repair a faulty digital voltmeter for me - most annoying, and it cost enough.

https://www.gallagherireland.com/contact_us.aspx

endainoz

Mortelaro wrote: »

I've one of these wifi plugs on my fence by the way
It means I can turn on and off the fence while down the field from my phone
They're around €30

I have one myself, it works great but thats assuming you have WiFi in range of the mains fencer. OP have you got your hands in a fault finder rather than a fence tester? They are a good bit more expensive but give a much more accurate reading and tell you which direction there may be a fault in the line. It could be something as simple as a staple worn into the metal.

nagel

Bass Reeves wrote: »

OP, it's a matter of isolating sections. First check the fencer with nothing on it. Connect to earth and check at point where it first connects to fence, disconnect from fence first.

Get someone to stay at fencer to turn on and off and go through fence section by section. It ideal if you can take out sections. Use gate points to isolate by using string or role to hold in place.

If it not the earth it a virtual full earth on the line. But you need to check to see if it is the earth. So disconnect all the farm from the first point and check it there

when you take off the line at the fence unit listen to see if there is a difference in the sound of the unit if there is no difference between the sound with the line disconnected or connected you most likely have a faulty unit, without a tester you can try this, then take off the line from the fencer , and being careful move it towards the terminal if you have a short to line you should get a spark arching
for about 6mm or so. then do the same where the lead out connects to the fence , again being careful, ir the spark jumps at the fence and not at the lead out, its likely that your lead out is the problem. btw what is the rating of the fence unit and roughly how much line have you on it , what type of wire are you using, dou you have any leads going under ground

TheFarrier

endainoz wrote: »

I have one myself, it works great but thats assuming you have WiFi in range of the mains fencer. OP have you got your hands in a fault finder rather than a fence tester? They are a good bit more expensive but give a much more accurate reading and tell you which direction there may be a fault in the line. It could be something as simple as a staple worn into the metal.

I haven’t got one myself yet but I had the use of one for a few days last week.
It didn’t seem to show up much of a problem, but the instructions I got were a bit vague and confusing so I’m not sure I had it right. The block of land in question was fully fenced brand new this time last year, all new posts wire and insulators, I’m still not ruling out a fault on the fence itself but it could still be that.
I’ll get a fault finder tomoro, if I can get to the coop before they close after work.


Thanks

TheFarrier

nagel wrote: »

when you take off the line at the fence unit listen to see if there is a difference in the sound of the unit if there is no difference between the sound with the line disconnected or connected you most likely have a faulty unit, without a tester you can try this, then take off the line from the fencer , and being careful move it towards the terminal if you have a short to line you should get a spark arching
for about 6mm or so. then do the same where the lead out connects to the fence , again being careful, ir the spark jumps at the fence and not at the lead out, its likely that your lead out is the problem. btw what is the rating of the fence unit and roughly how much line have you on it , what type of wire are you using, dou you have any leads going under ground

Peak voltage is 5.3kv
Pulse energy is 1.8j

At a guess 1km of fence, 2 km of wire in total
No underground cable
New earth rods lead out cable and earth cable 2 weeks ago

TheFarrier

Does a fault in a fence line only effect the shock after the fault or does it pull down the shock to the whine fence??

The readings with the fault tester above were taken within a meter of where the lead out cable attaches to the fence, surely the current should be at its highest there regardless of any fault further on??

endainoz

TheFarrier wrote: »

Does a fault in a fence line only effect the shock after the fault or does it pull down the shock to the whine fence??

The readings with the fault tester above were taken within a meter of where the lead out cable attaches to the fence, surely the current should be at its highest there regardless of any fault further on??

I was surprised when going down along the farm road with the fault finder last year. The mains fencer goes down the main farm road towards the fields. The wire on the main farm road is older and a good bit of variation in the quality of wire but beyond the road there is more modern strained high tensile wire which is connected to the poor quality wire on the road.

The voltage actually recovered and was much higher on the high tensile wire even though it was coming from mains via the poor quality wire. That suprised me as I thought the poor wire would bring the whole lot down in voltage.

I'd also agree with you about the instructions on the fault finder. A bit vague alright.

https://youtu.be/9-UeAjF8X-A

This quick video shows how it works quite well. You have probably been told this before but would you be able to get a loan of a new mains fencer and then you will know for sure that the issue is your mains fencer. I have a Forcefield mx8. Probably way overpowered for what I need but it gives a bit of peace of mind.

nagel

TheFarrier wrote: »

Peak voltage is 5.3kv
Pulse energy is 1.8j

At a guess 1km of fence, 2 km of wire in total
No underground cable
New earth rods lead out cable and earth cable 2 weeks ago

ok being careful, do the spark test, with no line the fence unit should give a sharp noise if there is a short somewhere it will be more muted.

Mach Two

Disconnect the wire where the shock is connected to the wire in the field. Then check the shock strength there. That will tell you how good the shock is there and eliminate whether the fencer is working properly or not. Then zone the rest of the farm. Eliminating field by field. I use a little device that beeps when the fence is on. The stronger the shock the further away from the fence it beeps. Only cost about €8.

J.O. Farmer

TheFarrier wrote: »

Short answer is no.

After I put down the earth rods, the shock hadn’t much improved, so I fired a few buckets of water down around the earth rods. The reading on a Gallagher tester was reading 2.3 before water, and 3.5 after.

Results so far is the friesian bullocks are staying put now, the 2 Angus b*****ds are still outside the fence half the time but they won’t leave the others so they’re not going far. They seem to come and go as they please, half the time they’re where they should be and half the time they are outside the fence looking to be left in.
It would be a fine thing if the hoors would at least knock the wire where they’re going out at least I’d know then where the weak spot is but the fence is spot on to look at it.

I’ve the fencer now running just the field they’re in, pressed the battery fencer back into service to keep an eye on the horses

Could my fencer be gone weak?? Have it maybe 15 years now

Any chance the 2 Angus were looking forward to the Dublin Horse show in the RDS and now it's cancelled are entertaining themselves showjumping. If that's the case it's the height of the fence rather than the power in it that's your problem.

TheFarrier

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Any chance the 2 Angus were looking forward to the Dublin Horse show in the RDS and now it's cancelled are entertaining themselves showjumping. If that's the case it's the height of the fence rather than the power in it that's your problem.

If they could jump that well I could send half the horses to the factory lol