Should long sentence/life criminals be given option of euthanasia?

bo0li5eumx12kp

I firmly believe they should.

Cats do some heinous things but, been watching some prison documentaries and, I can't imagine the hellishness of being locked in that environment for that long.

Maybe a sentence of set term followed by option for medically assisted euthanasia at a certain point?

I know death sentencing was popular at one point, then with more forward thinking national policies, was eliminated.

Some means of death/punishment in the past are foul; medieval torture methods etc (brass bull being one among many) - just so we're clear.
I'm not advocating anything like that.

I'm talking something quick and painless.

I get political correctness is OTT at the moment, which let's face it - is far more so to preserve sensibilities than as a matter of justice.

A life sentence in an insanity inducing cramped space is to me, infinitely more unethical than a death sentence.

I consider this in addition to the introduction of medically assisted suicide to chronically ill patients with no possibility of recovery, to be unquestionably something for consideration on behalf of lawmakers and medical authorities.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Victims should get a say maybe? Or is that leaning a bit towards a revenge-based system too much?

IAMAMORON

Giving such an option to a criminal sounds heinous.

Legally it would be impossible to apply such options to the criminally insane. As such it could interfere with due process.

It is a farcical idea, with ugly connotations.

endacl

IAMAMORON wrote: »

It is a farcical idea, with ugly connotations.

Funny. That would work as a first reply post to the majority of his threads!

Luimneach2018

If we're not going to allow for euthanasia in this country for the likes of Marie Fleming in that terribly sad case a number of years back then I don't see why criminals who have perpetuated acts that resulted in their long term incarceration should be extended that same privilege. (Privilege seems a strange word to use for this but here we are...)

They are free to take their own lives if that's what they want. The Marie Flemings of this world who are suffering horrible degenerative diseases such as MS have no choice but to suffer.

So no, I'd rather see euthanasia become an option for people with end of life conditions so that they be given the option to go out on their own terms.

jaxxx

So give the very worst in society a chance to escape punishment by choosing death rather than incarceration? Excuse me French but WTF kind of sh*t are you smoking.


Euthanasia is to end suffering. Imprisonment is not suffering. If you think spending a life in prison is suffering, then quite frankly it's a f*cking insult to quadraplegics, those in long term comas, and other scenarios for anyone that knows actual suffering. Criminals chose to do what they did. Those with actual suffering had no choice. Cop on to yourself. Now I'm going to quickly take my leave before I truly lose control and possibly get myself banned.

Das Reich

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

I'm talking something quick and painless.

Why is necessary to be like that?

witchgirl26

But is that not just a way to evade punishment essentially? We don't have the death penalty in this country which I fully agree with for a couple of reasons and 1 of them is, justice is not served by the perpetrator of a crime being dead. The old adage of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

bo0li5eumx12kp

Luimneach2018 wrote: »

So no, I'd rather see euthanasia become an option for people with end of life conditions so that they be given the option to go out on their own terms.

I was advocating that, in addition.

Just FYI, we all know fentanyl is highly obtainable, and even mild overdoses result in respiratory depression.

I'm just saying if someone in my immediate family was being forced to suffer under an incompetent system....

Queasy Tadpole

Everyone should be allowed to end their lives in a painless and respectful manner.

In prison or outside.

bo0li5eumx12kp

jaxxx wrote: »

So give the very worst in society a chance to escape punishment by choosing death rather than incarceration? Excuse me French but WTF kind of sh*t are you smoking.


Euthanasia is to end suffering. Imprisonment is not suffering. If you think spending a life in prison is suffering, then quite frankly it's a f*cking insult to quadraplegics, those in long term comas, and other scenarios for anyone that knows actual suffering. Criminals chose to do what they did. Those with actual suffering had no choice. Cop on to yourself. Now I'm going to quickly take my leave before I truly lose control and possibly get myself banned.

Again, those situations of chronic dysfunction you describe, I absolutely advocate such individuals be given the option of euthanasia.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Everyone should be allowed to end their lives in a painless and respectful manner.

In prison or outside.

Perhaps it is true I'm not fully informed but, this was the point I was making.

Now, someone's having a hard time and just wants to check out, of course regulatory measures would be in place - otherwise there could be otherwise positive lives going to waste that could be redeemed.

But lifers in prison that have no possibility to rejoin civilized society?
Or the chronically ill?

I advocate the quoted statement.

witchgirl26

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Everyone should be allowed to end their lives in a painless and respectful manner.

In prison or outside.

Completely agree if they have a terminal, degenerative disease. However if it's just an option to get out of serving an essentially life sentence. Then no. They don't.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Additionally, does no one consider relief of burden the economic system to be a factor?

Prisons are a huge weight on the tax payer.

Over the chronically ill, I honestly think Simon Harris needs his ass kicked for not getting on that issue.

bo0li5eumx12kp

I do think it's worth pointing out that, those that condemn the idea of euthanasia of prison lifers, are almost certainly the type that reside firmly on one certain side of society.

And can probably not even imagine what it's like to live on the other.

And if they spent a single day in prison - I suspect they may have a dramatic change of perspective.

Luimneach2018

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

I was advocating that, in addition.

Just FYI, we all know fentanyl is highly obtainable, and even mild overdoses result in respiratory depression.

I'm just saying if someone in my immediate family was being forced to suffer under an incompetent system....

I don't like being this blunt but most of us are free to take our own lives, even most people in prison.

In general, euthanasia is applicable to physical suffering, I don't really think an opt-in death sentence for convicted criminals can be considered in a conversation about euthanasia.

To go off on a tangent, prisoners in our country don't actually have it that bad. They're not really suffering.

In this country we have people with dozens, even hundreds of convictions walking around free as the rest of us. You'd have to do something particularly heinous in this country to serve more than 20 years in a sentence.

Prison isn't supposed to be an enjoyable experience. It's a punishment afterall. If one doesn't want to do the time then don't do the crime. A cliché maybe but a fair deal nonetheless.

witchgirl26

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

Additionally, does no one consider relief of burden the economic system to be a factor?

Prisons are a huge weight on the tax payer.

Yes they are but rather than trying to empty them by offering euthenasia to prisoners, how about people stop doing crimes that get themselves lengthy prison sentences?

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

I do think it's worth pointing out that, those that condemn the idea of euthanasia of prison lifers, are almost certainly the type that reside firmly on one certain side of society.

And can probably not even imagine what it's like to live on the other.

And if they spent a single day in prison - I suspect they may have a dramatic change of perspective.

What do you mean by that? People who are in prison for that length of time have generally committed one of the worst offences you can up to an including murder. I don't think it matters what side of society you sit on, murder is always wrong.

I don't plan on ever spending a day in prison. Generally I try not to break the law. I do feel for some people who are in prison & want to rehabilitate & can imagine it's not a great experience but then that's the whole point of it really.

Queasy Tadpole

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Completely agree if they have a terminal, degenerative disease. However if it's just an option to get out of serving an essentially life sentence. Then no. They don't.

Why does the reason matter?


Do you realise they can easily hang themselves in prison anyway?

Luimneach2018

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

I do think it's worth pointing out that, those that condemn the idea of euthanasia of prison lifers, are almost certainly the type that reside firmly on one certain side of society.

And can probably not even imagine what it's like to live on the other.

And if they spent a single day in prison - I suspect they may have a dramatic change of perspective.

People don't get to choose where they are brought up or their family circumstances when they grew up. I know plenty of people who turned out just fine despite being dealt a crappy hand in life. Unfortunately plenty will take the wrong path and use the crappy hand they have been dealt as an excuse.

Conversely, I've known plenty of examples who were dealt a golden hand in life and opted to take a negative/destructive path. People have free will to do the right thing or the wrong thing, and if they choose to take the darker path, they tend to be experts at playing the victim card regardless of what side of society they are on.

Some of the most decent people I know either are or were from rough areas, on that "other" side as you term it.

Prison lifers can make all the excuses in the world but at the end of the day they only have themselves to blame.

martingriff

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Why does the reason matter?


Do you realise they can easily hang themselves in prison anyway?

Then let them. So let's say someone kills a member of your family or a friend, you be ok with them taking the easy option and not living with what they have done and the consequences while you will have to. NO F#^*^&G WAY

Luimneach2018

Actually, I'm nearly forgetting where I am - "Legal Discussion". Setting aside the moral/ethical aspects.

As far as I'm aware, suicide was a criminal offence until some time in the early 90's, and the wording was effectively changed to make it a criminal offence to be an accomplice.

To do this would require decriminalising the act of being an accomplice to suicide; which to me would be opening a major can of worms, obviously it can't be fully decriminalised, and only permissible in particular circumstances. Such as in cases of people with terminal illnesses.

Someone who wishes to die in order to not continue a jail sentence. If that's the starting point, where does the line get drawn? What about the person who wishes to die because they recently got divorced? The person who wants to die because they haven't been able to find a job for the last 5 years? These people need to avail of mental health supports, not assisted suicide.

A person in an end of life situation who wishes to bring an end to physical suffering seems more clear cut. In many cases, these people lack the physical capacity to commit the legal act of suicide. Only in these cases should "euthanasia" apply.

Suicide is open to all others.

OP; the question I believe you should be asking here is should the death penalty be restored?

bo0li5eumx12kp

Luimneach2018 wrote: »

OP; the question I believe you should be asking here is should the death penalty be restored?

Well, more so say, state can not implement the death penalty, but can offer the option to the condemned.

Victor

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

Cats do some heinous things

Cats?

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

been watching some prison documentaries

American prison documentaries? While Irish prisons aren't 'good', they aren't that bad either.

I can't imagine the hellishness of being locked in that environment for that long.

Then surely your first step should be prison reform or something like that?

Mellor

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

Maybe a sentence of set term followed by option for medically assisted euthanasia at a certain point?

There's no such thing as "assisted euthanasia".
Euthanasia is assisted suicide for people who want to end their life but physically can't. That doesn't apply to life sentence prisoners.

There is nothing stopping them committing suicide. Pointless suggestion

A life sentence in an insanity inducing cramped space is to me, infinitely more unethical than a death sentence.

That is unquestionably incorrect. Living in prison, is at least a form of life. Dying it nothing. But as you'll probably disagree, there's the fact only one give you a choice.

A person given a life sentence can choose to die.
A person given a death sentence can choose to live.

witchgirl26 wrote: »

But is that not just a way to evade punishment essentially? We don't have the death penalty in this country which I fully agree with for a couple of reasons and 1 of them is, justice is not served by the perpetrator of a crime being dead. The old adage of "if you can't do the time, don't do the crime".

That's not the reason we don't have the death penalty.
And that adage makes no sense in that context.

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

I'm just saying if someone in my immediate family was being forced to suffer under an incompetent system....

If they murdered somebody, then they deserve it.
I'm not going to feel sorry for a hypothetical murderer who doesn't like his cell.

bo0li5eumx12kp

Mellor wrote: »

There's no such thing as "assisted euthanasia".
Euthanasia is assisted suicide for people who want to end their life but physically can't. That doesn't apply to life sentence prisoners.

There is nothing stopping them committing suicide. Pointless suggestion


That is unquestionably incorrect. Living in prison, is at least a form of life. Dying it nothing. But as you'll probably disagree, there's the fact only one give you a choice.

A person given a life sentence can choose to die.
A person given a death sentence can choose to live.


That's not the reason we don't have the death penalty.
And that adage makes no sense in that context.


If they murdered somebody, then they deserve it.
I'm not going to feel sorry for a hypothetical murderer who doesn't like his cell.

Quite obvious the side of society that attitude comes from.

Pampered, all catered to.

Easy to be judgemental on that high horse.

There's an entire other world out there pal.

Mellor

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

Quite obvious the side of society that attitude comes from.

Pampered, all catered to.

Easy to be judgemental on that high horse.

There's an entire other world out there pal.

Easy to dodge the points and claim some nonsense like that.

I'm judgmental and pampered because I pointed out that prisoners aren't physically prevent from committing suicide like a bedridden terminally ill patient.
Does that reply actually make sense to you.

witchgirl26

Queasy Tadpole wrote: »

Why does the reason matter?
Do you realise they can easily hang themselves in prison anyway?

Of course the reason matters. Its one thing if someone decides that they don't want to keep living with a degenerative disease which they never did anything to deserve that is losing them literally all quality of life. It's a totally different thing if they choose to end their life, legally, because they don't want to serve a long prison sentence for a crime they committed of their own volition.

Mellor wrote: »

That's not the reason we don't have the death penalty.
And that adage makes no sense in that context.

I never said that is the reason we don't have the death penalty. I said it was one of the reasons I am glad we don't.

As for the adage - I was saying that prisoners shouldn't be offered the euthanasia option if they are using it to get out of serving a life sentence. Thus committing the crime but not wanting to serve the time.

Mae Rancid Club wrote: »

Quite obvious the side of society that attitude comes from.

Pampered, all catered to.

Easy to be judgemental on that high horse.

There's an entire other world out there pal.

I agree there can be a fine line with some petty crime and that we shouldn't judge too quickly on some matters like theft without violence and understand the circumstances that led to it. However the level of crime that results in an extremely long prison sentence like you were saying in your OP is a crime that has most likely hurt someone or killed someone. Therefore yes it is very easy for anyone to be judgemental. No amount of "I had a tough start in life" justifies that type of crime.
A lot of people grow up in that world and don't resort to that life.

Mellor

witchgirl26 wrote: »

. It's a totally different thing if they choose to end their life, legally, because they don't want to serve a long prison sentence for a crime they committed of their own volition.

His point is that that can choose to end their life, legally, right now anyway.
Which makes your criticism pointless. It also makes the OPs suggestion pointless.

As for the adage - I was saying that prisoners shouldn't be offered the euthanasia option if they are using it to get out of serving a life sentence. Thus committing the crime but not wanting to serve the time.

I understood what you are saying. It makes little sense really. The adage isn't about time or even crime specifically. It's about consequences.

Opting for a death sentence over a custodial one is not a lesser punishment or consequences. It's a significantly more severe one.