Taking company to circuit court.

carveone

Searching through boards.ie I was seeing someone saying that "The WRC adjudication procedure is straightforward, as is enforcement of any award via the courts."

Is it reasonable for an individual to take their company to the circuit court for enforcement of an award, in preference to asking the WRC to do it? The WRC do have a process available. More to the point, I somehow doubt any enforcement is going on during the Covid-19 lockdown. I've no idea!

I was awarded 15k by the WRC including 9k in redundancy. The company ignored my request for an RP50, refuses to engage, reply to email, do anything at all. They've also refused to comply with Revenue (enforcement were on to me!). I've now seen that they're are "strike off listed" on the CRO website. Because of Covid-19, strike offs are not proceeding at the moment - not sure if this is good or bad for me.

My situation sounds similar (to me!) to the Glegola case. I have an award, company has no money (they say) but are not officially insolvent but are also on their way to being struck off the CRO register. In which case I may get zero.

The company are due about 45k in EU payments though. My thinking is that they'll take the payments, shutdown the company and tell me to drop dead

Truthvader

Dishonest people routinely use companies to defraud and steal from people. The government and the courts dont care because it has been going on for so long it is "normal"

There is a solution for you. If you are certain that 45K is on the way to the company and you know whete from get a solicitor to "garnishee" the money or make an application for "receiver by way of equitable execution". This is your only hope. A small firm might do it "no foal no fee" if they are convinced the money is there. Move now because these people have no intentionof paying you or anyone else

carveone

I know it sounds awful but if it hadn't been for Covid 19, they would have gone "Ceased" by now. The WRC officer actually asked them as to their status and they said "We're still trading". Which was a complete lie.

It's a bit late for me but I'd advise anyone with issues with their company to keep a constant eye on the CRO website.

Yes, I am certain the 45K is on its way. It an EU payment via a large Irish university and I'm still on the EU project mailing list :P

I didn't know I could put the RP50 in myself and it's on its way. The DEASP told me the same thing - move right now!

I'm going to ask a relative who is a solicitor to see if this garnishee thing is a possiblity. Thanks.

ezra_

How can they get the money if they are not trading?

I had some dealings with one university and you needed a valid tax clearance cert to get paid - they checked this pretty much every-time we were owed money. Saying that, I dealt with another and they didn't seem to have the same procedures.

If the company is strike-off listed, the University should be informed.

carveone

ezra_ wrote: »

How can they get the money if they are not trading?

That's a very good point. It looks like they either expected to get the money anyway or to get it before they got struck off. It didn't happen that way - delays from Covid-19 means they don't have the money yet but Covid-19 has also prevented them being struck off!

A specific Google search of cro.ie tells me they were "struck off listed" in 2016 too, at the end of the last EU project but before they knew they'd got this one. Very dubious behaviour. Wish I'd seen that earlier!

I informed the University who didn't seem to be interested; perhaps I should email their financial arm instead of the project coordinator. I'm rather tempted to talk to AIB too - the company have a 30k loan with them and I'm betting AIB don't know that they won't get that money back! 30k might be enough that AIB wind them up and I won't have to

(That "receiver by way of equitable execution" would be such a nice thing to get from the circuit court. No soup for you!)

ezra_

carveone wrote: »

That's a very good point. It looks like they either expected to get the money anyway or to get it before they got struck off. It didn't happen that way - delays from Covid-19 means they don't have the money yet but Covid-19 has also prevented them being struck off!

A specific Google search of cro.ie tells me they were "struck off listed" in 2016 too, at the end of the last EU project but before they knew they'd got this one. Very dubious behaviour. Wish I'd seen that earlier!

I informed the University who didn't seem to be interested; perhaps I should email their financial arm instead of the project coordinator. I'm rather tempted to talk to AIB too - the company have a 30k loan with them and I'm betting AIB don't know that they won't get that money back! 30k might be enough that AIB wind them up and I won't have to

(That "receiver by way of equitable execution" would be such a nice thing to get from the circuit court. No soup for you!)

Accounts in Universities are very separate from the various schools and projects.

Copying into the email some of the senior management, and writing in a calm and very professional way may help grant the delays that you are looking for.

splinter65

If or when they get the €45,000 payment the first thing that will happen is that Revenue will snatch it. I can guarantee you they owe a fortune in tax.
Revenue is first i the queue. Customers and especially employees are on the bottom of the pile.

Truthvader

Told you what to do. You are wasting your own time messing about on CRO websites - ringing AIB might generate a legal action agaist you, from an insolvent company with nothing to lose

Ring your relative, offer him 20% commission on whatever he recovers. He should also get costs from the company. Lawyers have nothing to do these days so he/she should be well up for it

carveone

Thanks Truthvader - I understand but I was also considering that I may need to get more time. I've definitely been getting off my ass though today! (And your warning on AIB is heard and understood)

carveone

A minor update for someone who might be in the same situation.

The WRC tell me that, on application, they can contact the CRO and put a stop on any strike off. This is really important as it give you time.

My relative suggested that given the legal costs vs benefit ratio (ie: it would be more than whatever money I'm due!), it would make sense to do it yourself: a) the respondent is highly unlikely to turn up and b) the District Court are "well used to and encouraging of lay litigants, especially as you have a WRC decision in your favour."

She also said to bear in mind there are priorities for who must be paid first in an insolvency situation and, as splinter65 said, Revenue are at the top of the list. But I'd then get most of the money (4800) paid from the SIF anyway so it's no loss to me to just do it.

davindub

carveone wrote: »

A minor update for someone who might be in the same situation.

The WRC tell me that, on application, they can contact the CRO and put a stop on any strike off. This is really important as it give you time.

My relative suggested that given the legal costs vs benefit ratio (ie: it would be more than whatever money I'm due!), it would make sense to do it yourself: a) the respondent is highly unlikely to turn up and b) the District Court are "well used to and encouraging of lay litigants, especially as you have a WRC decision in your favour."

She also said to bear in mind there are priorities for who must be paid first in an insolvency situation and, as splinter65 said, Revenue are at the top of the list. But I'd then get most of the money (4800) paid from the SIF anyway so it's no loss to me to just do it.

The strike off is likely to do with accounts being outstanding, but can be a bad sign.

Go ahead and file for an enforcement order and then try the sheriff.

hullaballoo

Employees entitlements are ranked ahead of Revenue in a liquidation. What is unclear is whether the full amount of the WRC order is in respect of entitlements or comprises entitlements plus damages. My company law knowledge is ok, my employment law knowledge is another matter.

I'm not sure it's an insolvency situation or a stretching creditors situation right now but there is a government fund that can be applied to for employee entitlements unable to be met by an insolvent company.

There are actually quite a few options here that I'd be exploring before jumping straight to putting the company into liquidation or applying to a government fund but all of those options would see me speak to my solicitor in the first instance.