Wiring Centre for Central Heating

funkey_monkey

When installing a central heating system does the connections for the controls normally get installed using block terminals or is it now standard in a new build to use a wiring centre?


Thanks.

Hintel

funkey_monkey wrote: »

When installing a central heating system does the connections for the controls normally get installed using block terminals or is it now standard in a new build to use a wiring centre?


Thanks.

Wiring centre, either a standard unit or a proprietary wiring centre for some systems

Block terminals if you mean connectors are confusing if you have to troubleshoot except it's a simple system

Been a while but that was my experience

funkey_monkey

As per another thread I was asked previously to relocate central heating programmer and was looking into how it was previously installed. My understanding now is that there is only a single quad-core cable routed to the programmer which makes life simpler.

The plan discussed on the other thread was to relocate the programmer to inside the press as sideways in its current location was not a option without tracking. Upwards is not feasible either as the purpose of this is to allow installation of a larger freezer unit.

I like the look of the wiring centres. I get the impression that what has been installed has been fitted inside a double socket recessed box. Will check later. I just hope there is enough flex to install the wiring centre. The wall on which the wiring is currently located for the wiring centre is stud so if possible I'd like to recess as much as possible.

However, i might just chicken out and do minimal if I have to do this work.

Hintel

funkey_monkey wrote: »

As per another thread I was asked previously to relocate central heating programmer and was looking into how it was previously installed. My understanding now is that there is only a single quad-core cable routed to the programmer which makes life simpler.

The plan discussed on the other thread was to relocate the programmer to inside the press as sideways in its current location was not a option without tracking. Upwards is not feasible either as the purpose of this is to allow installation of a larger freezer unit.

I like the look of the wiring centres. I get the impression that what has been installed has been fitted inside a double socket recessed box. Will check later. I just hope there is enough flex to install the wiring centre. The wall on which the wiring is currently located for the wiring centre is stud so if possible I'd like to recess as much as possible.

However, i might just chicken out and do minimal if I have to do this work.

Didn't see other thread

Sounds like.just a single channel programmer wired to a boiler and pump

You wouldn't need a wiring centre for that?

I'd be checking that the programmer will be fused correctly in this setup and that the boiler has local isolation fitted and circuit is RCD protected ,if that's all it is

Bruthal

I have previously used an enclosure and din rail to do them, with a printed out label on the inside of the lid.

In my own house, I used that, as well as a wiring centre, as I added a stove to the existing gas heating system, and added sonoff relays to the setup which operate 2 zone valves, which in turn bring on the boiler.

2011

Sometimes it’s easier to build your own wiring center based on your own requirements. It starts off by figuring out what how you want the system to operate.

2011

My heating control:

⦁ 1 x Sonoff TH16 that turns the boiler. I mounted this in my utility room local to the boiler. I then drilled a dole through the wall so that I could discreetly pass the temperature probe through into the kitchen just above a shelving unit. This provides me with a good reference temperature for the house.

⦁ 2 x Sonoff TH16 as shown in the first photo below. These are supplied from the small enclosure that I fed from the immersion heater circuit. The load is so small that it is not an issue and appropriately sized MCBs have been used. One Sonoff controls the zone valve for the domestic hot water. The temperature probe from this unit is held firmly against the hot water tank so that I can gauge how much hot water I have. The 2nd Sonoff controls the zone valve for the radiators.

This means that I essentially have 2 "smart zones". These are synced with Google Home, so for example if I want hot water I simply say "Hey Google turn on the boiler and the hot water". This will turn on the boiler and open the appropriate zone valve so that the hot water tank is heated.


Total cost about €120.

Hintel

Why did you have the boiler wired independently of the zone valves

Was it just a smart retrofit and that was just the simplest way

tech

Hi 2011

how do you find the SonOff Kit, can you detail more on how it is all wired up and the setup, would like to look into this myself

thanks

tech

Hi 2011

how do you find the SonOff Kit, can you detail more on how it is all wired up and the setup, would like to look into this myself

thanks

Hintel

If that's the 2 zone valves hardwired to the DB I'd have prob tried to fit a wireless link to activate the boiler

And wired the stat to the rad valve but if it works it alright

I have a few of the sonoff plugs but never got into it much

2011

Hintel wrote: »

Why did you have the boiler wired independently of the zone valves

The first Sonoff will switch on the domestic hot water valve via a stat (ensuring the water does not over heat). Once this valve opens auxiliary contacts on it fire the boiler.

The second Sonoff will switch on the radiator valve. Once this valve opens auxiliary contacts on it fire the boiler.

The third Sonoff is normally left on. This provides me with temperature and humidity measurement in my kitchen which is a central point in the house. I can view these on the app. It also serves a second purpose, it provides a "master off" for the boiler. So if either of the above valves stick in the on position I can use this to shut off the boiler (via the app). Otherwise it would keep going.

Was it just a smart retrofit and that was just the simplest way

It was a retrofit but I rewired everything from scratch.

Hintel

No problem isee

I'm misreading the situation cos I'm not familiar with operation of the th16

Bruthal

Hintel wrote: »

No problem isee

I'm misreading the situation cos I'm not familiar with operation of the th16

I have the same setup. Not sure what sonoff devices I have but I've 2, each one switching on a zone valve. Valves switch on boiler.

Stove pipe stat closes a relay which open both valves when stove is going.

2011

tech wrote: »

Hi 2011

how do you find the SonOff Kit

I find it excellent, reliable, cheap and easy to install.

can you detail more on how it is all wired up and the setup, would like to look into this myself

Either of the auxiliarys on the zone valves can bring on a small relay. One set of normally open connections on this relay are fed from the 3rd Sonoff (in my kitchen). The output from the relay fires the boiler (when live). So for the boiler to fire the relay must be energised (that means I want to heat water, rads or both) and the kitchen Sonoff must be on.

Make sense?

Lat time I bought it from sonoff.ie

2011

Hintel wrote: »

I'm misreading the situation cos I'm not familiar with operation of the th16

TH = Temp and Humidity sensors can be connected
16 = Designed to switch a resistive load of up to 16A

This is a 1 channel device.

Hintel

I see the setup now with the 3rd sonoff

Looked it up there,the TH16 is very handy for heating with the probe

2011

Hintel wrote: »

I see the setup now with the 3rd sonoff

Looked it up there,the TH16 is very handy for heating with the probe

Yes and for fractionally more you can measure humidity & temp from a single probe. The output can be programmed to switch by both temp and humidity set points or a 7 day week timer. Also integrates seamlessly with Google Home

Hintel

2011 wrote: »

Yes and for fractionally more you can measure humidity & temp from a single probe. The output can be programmed to switch by both temp and humidity set points or a 7 day week timer. Also integrates seamlessly with Google Home

Great functionality altogether

2011

Hintel wrote: »

Great functionality altogether

Yes. Since I installed this there have been a number of firmware upgrades which provide even more functionality (for free). Once you buy one you tend to get carried away. They even have a replacement light switch that does not require a neutral and 3 gang versions that fit on a single back box.

Hintel

2011 wrote: »

. They even have a replacement light switch that does not require a neutral and 3 gang versions that fit on a single back box.

With led bulbs in-circuit?

Bruthal

Hintel wrote: »

With led bulbs in-circuit?

It is unlikely non neutral switch will work with LEDs. Some chopping of the circuit is likely needed to maintain power to the device when the lights are on, which will probably be seen by LEDs flickering.

Hintel

Bruthal wrote: »

It is unlikely non neutral switch will work with LEDs. Some chopping of the circuit is likely needed to maintain power to the device when the lights are on, which will probably be seen by LEDs flickering.

Ya I knew the devices would work with incandescent

Can't see the point if they're restricted to that

Bruthal

Hintel wrote: »

Ya I knew the devices would work with incandescent

Can't see the point if they're restricted to that

Just for people who dont have leds, but want the functionality.

Ive no leds here, but have a few switches on the phone setup.

Hintel

Bruthal wrote: »

Just for people who dont have leds, but want the functionality.

Ive no leds here, but have a few switches on the phone setup.

You can replace the lightswitch with a keyswitch and recess a 230v sonoff near the light if u want led control

More work though

2011

Hintel wrote: »

With led bulbs in-circuit?

I'm not sure if it will work with LED's, see thread here.
My Sonoff is switching LED's perfectly but my version of the Sonoff light switch requires a neutral.

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

I'm not sure if it will work with LED's, see thread here.
My Sonoff is switching LED's perfectly but my version of the Sonoff light switch requires a neutral.

Those ones have a relay, so they are able to switch on and off like a standard switch. Non neutral switch type ones would use a triac setup probably. With no neutral, very little power can be taken from the circuit to power the switch when the light is on. Too little to operate a relay.

Although it probably is possible to power a small relay by chopping the circuit off and back on rapidly.

Has anyone tried them with leds? Has to be cutting the output briefly per cycle to maintain the electronics and so cause led problems.

Thinking about it now, its probably when its off that its likely to cause led flickering.

Loozer

Bruthal wrote: »

Those ones have a relay, so they are able to switch on and off like a standard switch. Non neutral switch type ones would use a triac setup probably. With no neutral, very little power can be taken from the circuit to power the switch when the light is on. Too little to operate a relay.

Although it probably is possible to power a small relay by chopping the circuit off and back on rapidly.

Has anyone tried them with leds? Has to be cutting the output briefly per cycle to maintain the electronics and so cause led problems.

Thinking about it now, its probably when its off that its likely to cause led flickering.

I looked them up there recently

They claim to work with led alright but they need a supplied resistor fitted in parallel with the lighting load to operate

To hell with that crack,Imagine trying to fault find or test an installation with resistors and smart switches everywhere lol, might be alright for one fitting

2011

Loozer wrote: »

To hell with that crack,Imagine trying to fault find or test an installation with resistors and smart switches everywhere lol, might be alright for one fitting

Why not test first and then install the switch?
Not that hard to do.

Loozer

2011 wrote: »

Why not test first and then install the switch?
Not that hard to do.

I mean retro testing

2011

Loozer wrote: »

I mean retro testing

Apply the same logic, very little work.
Remove the switch, link out, test, done!