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Long term race planning- beyond Covid

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  • 21-04-2020 12:55pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,431 ✭✭✭


    Just looking for some views and advice about best ways to structure training for the rest of the year.

    I've struggled over the last couple of weeks to get structure into training. That was partly intentional as I eased back from finishing off a Marathon plan. Now I'm eager to get some structure going having benefited from not actually having a race to recover from.

    I'm planning to train for some 5/10k stuff so I can do some time trials to measure progress. But beyond that it seems hard to know what to do as my main target was a sub 3 marathon attempt this year and I really can't see any of the autumn marathons going ahead.

    I suppose the best way of phrasing the question is- what can I do with the rest of this year to leave me in the best possible shape to re-target the marathon goal again next year?


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 8,082 ✭✭✭BeepBeep67


    I think that's the right approach, full on TT every 3-4 weeks or a couple of TT's in a short space of of time, then adjust based on the feedback and go again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    sideswipe wrote: »
    Just looking for some views and advice about best ways to structure training for the rest of the year.

    I've struggled over the last couple of weeks to get structure into training. That was partly intentional as I eased back from finishing off a Marathon plan. Now I'm eager to get some structure going having benefited from not actually having a race to recover from.

    I'm planning to train for some 5/10k stuff so I can do some time trials to measure progress. But beyond that it seems hard to know what to do as my main target was a sub 3 marathon attempt this year and I really can't see any of the autumn marathons going ahead.

    I suppose the best way of phrasing the question is- what can I do with the rest of this year to leave me in the best possible shape to re-target the marathon goal again next year?

    FWIW coming back from lack of fitness I am coming at the same sort of target from a different angle.

    My focus has been working from the ground up so started out with low mileage, alot of ancilliary work a fartlek and a tempo weekly. The aim is to build fitness on this core foundation as as I progress the volume will to. Rather than chasing miles I am organically building this up on the template.

    The aim is to hopefully be up in the 80/90 mpw as a comfortable average and from there I can then delve into a specific training plan for a target race.

    Strides, fartlek and tempo is a solid basis to any plan that will leave you in good knick as long as you keep consistent.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,181 ✭✭✭healy1835


    KSU wrote: »
    FWIW coming back from lack of fitness I am coming at the same sort of target from a different angle.

    My focus has been working from the ground up so started out with low mileage, alot of ancilliary work a fartlek and a tempo weekly. The aim is to build fitness on this core foundation as as I progress the volume will to. Rather than chasing miles I am organically building this up on the template.

    The aim is to hopefully be up in the 80/90 mpw as a comfortable average and from there I can then delve into a specific training plan for a target race.

    Strides, fartlek and tempo is a solid basis to any plan that will leave you in good knick as long as you keep consistent.

    What would your take be on the long run L? I'm keeping it to about 15/18 miles and more often than not using it as a session.

    I've been gearing towards staying sharp before beginning a block at the start of June for the Amsterdam Marathon, but that's not likely to happen now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    healy1835 wrote: »
    What would your take be on the long run L? I'm keeping it to about 15/18 miles and more often than not using it as a session.

    I've been gearing towards staying sharp before beginning a block at the start of June for the Amsterdam Marathon, but that's not likely to happen now.


    Personally I have been keeping some of the higher mileage lads (70/80mpw) I have between 2 hr and 2hr15 so roughly working out around same as yourself. I think that sort of time on feet at easy pace builds endurance to a good point that is perfect going into a marathon block.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭IvoryTower


    Im just following the normal season to me which would mean track May - Aug, XC in august/Sept, Base training in Nov. Higher mileage than normal and time trials every few weeks instead of races. Just high mileage and easy running does sound tempting though if ever there was a time to do that its now


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  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭MisterJinx


    Jumping in here too as was going to ask a similar enough question. DCM 2020 was to be my first Marathon but looking forward to 2021 now! Was looking at plans etc and trying to get a feel for what I would use but now I suppose it's all about maintenance and a really slow build up :-)

    Does anyone have any suggestions on best way to increase mileage from ~30/40K per week. Have found that my body is naturally shying away from running 5 consecutive days, legs are tired and feel the runs aren't really doing me much good....more of a trudge until I take a few days off and then there is some spring in the step.

    Options are getting used to running 5/6 days per week or building up the mileage by keeping 3/4 runs but upping the distance overall.

    2Hr LSR is fine weekly and can cover ~20K. TBH probably miss the cross training and being on the bike for active recovery which kept the legs fresher!


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    Just going to build on my aerobic base till this ends. Really enjoying it at the moment.

    Speed work I can't get into right now, with nothing in the future I just can't motivate myself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Just going to build on my aerobic base till this ends. Really enjoying it at the moment.

    Speed work I can get into right now, with nothing in the future I just can't motivate myself.

    Don't ignore a few strides and you won't know yourself when you do go big. A little often can work wonders


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    KSU wrote: »
    Don't ignore a few strides and you won't know yourself when you do go big. A little often can work wonders

    Is it better to do the strides at the end of an easy run or during it?

    My plan at the moment is 60 mins steady, 45 mins easy, 60 mins steady, 45 mins easy and 90 mins lsr at the weekend. Will up this to 105 mins at the end of May

    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    MisterJinx wrote: »
    Jumping in here too as was going to ask a similar enough question. DCM 2020 was to be my first Marathon but looking forward to 2021 now! Was looking at plans etc and trying to get a feel for what I would use but now I suppose it's all about maintenance and a really slow build up :-)

    Does anyone have any suggestions on best way to increase mileage from ~30/40K per week. Have found that my body is naturally shying away from running 5 consecutive days, legs are tired and feel the runs aren't really doing me much good....more of a trudge until I take a few days off and then there is some spring in the step.

    Options are getting used to running 5/6 days per week or building up the mileage by keeping 3/4 runs but upping the distance overall.

    2Hr LSR is fine weekly and can cover ~20K. TBH probably miss the cross training and being on the bike for active recovery which kept the legs fresher!

    I would say depends on pace on your runs. For me in marathon training there should be a lot of easy miles (min 3 per week real easy pace) and these will get some miles, help recovery and also help to run on some tired legs. A big part of marathon training is running on tired legs and this will help you adapt.

    Take the easy days easier, make the hard days harder. Something I like to try do. I dont always succeed.

    At the moment I have no treadmill or anything so limiting myself to 35-40mins running but going out every day to keep up some mileage. So basically every day running about 4M. Some easy runs, some tempo, some with intervals but overall not worrying too much. Its more to keep me healthy and sane. I am hoping in another month restrictions will be relaxed a little to allow more time out but will see.

    I also hope people going out for 15-20M runs are on treadmill or its a bit of a p*ss take to the crisis we are in. We are just running for health (a few perhaps here who are high level) so bit selfish to flaunt the rules just to get some extra miles. Rant over I guess.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭IvoryTower


    chris85 wrote: »
    I also hope people going out for 15-20M runs are on treadmill or its a bit of a p*ss take to the crisis we are in. We are just running for health (a few perhaps here who are high level) so bit selfish to flaunt the rules just to get some extra miles. Rant over I guess.

    There's a thread for this already, lets keep all the toxic sweat to one thread


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Good question as its hard to stay motivated without an event or plan.

    DCM was my A goal of the year. I had planned GLR Half as a B Goal.

    I had set upon a half marathon plan but binned that.

    I'm using this time as an opportunity to build the aerobic base. To start the DCM plan in June from a stronger base to help the cumulative fatigue recovery from the plan. Maybe even train and better paces for the same effort than last year.

    The base is simply building easy mileage. Bench marked base 5k tests every 100 miles to ensure Its progressing and not folding into over reaching. As such I'm approaching intensity more cautiously.

    Strides
    1 session mid week at 5-10k effort
    MP effort Stuff in the LR. No need to go over 2hrs.

    Intensity all based of RPE or heart rate zones, than target paces.

    What I'm thinking is turning the base tests into 5-10k TTs - as motivation to maintain fitness and transition into a marathon plan. If the marathon is not going to happen this year I might target a 5-10k TT goal


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭DubOnHoliday


    For anyone looking for plan suggestions, our coach Emmett Dunleavy has been putting for plans on the myrun community Facebook group, with options for people running 3 times a week and those running more, the plans include a monthly TT. Highly recommended.


  • Registered Users Posts: 946 ✭✭✭KSU


    Is it better to do the strides at the end of an easy run or during it?

    My plan at the moment is 60 mins steady, 45 mins easy, 60 mins steady, 45 mins easy and 90 mins lsr at the weekend. Will up this to 105 mins at the end of May

    Thanks

    I have seen both (in both regular runners and elite)

    Personally I like them at the end as it is a bit of a form reset for me and energises the legs a little (doesn't hurt that it speeds up the trip home as run out and back from the house)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,502 ✭✭✭chris85


    IvoryTower wrote: »
    There's a thread for this already, lets keep all the toxic sweat to one thread

    Didn't read the other one tbh. I only came into this tread as looking beyond this too. Was expecting more a conversation about maintaining with the restrictions but sure that how it is. My expectations just altered a little so no harm. Enjoy your runs, run as long as you want.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    Time trials don't float my boat. They are pretty meaningless for sprinting. I need the races to stay motivated.

    I'll keep positive that there will be a stripped down season with a few later summer/autumn meets.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭bryangiggsy


    I set myself a solo 8 week challenge and run a solo 10k time trial at the end of it.

    On week 4 at the moment.
    Mileage for 1st 3 weeks was 40,46,50 miles
    Probably do 52 this week (all within a 2k radius) then drop back down for a recovery week next week

    Week is structured as
    Monday Lactate threshold run
    Tues Recovery Run
    Wed Aerobic Run
    Thursday VO2 max 5*1km
    Friday Recovery Run
    Sat LSR 90 mins
    Sunday Off

    After the 8 weeks was planning on starting the marathon plan for Berlin. Thats shelved now. Maybe Valencia or Malaga will go ahead in December.
    I think its too early to tell re October , Nov,dec smaller marathons.
    I think things will be much clearer by end of June what way everything is going.
    Germany have set a date of Oct 24th before any mass gatherings. Could we see them allowed in November/December.?


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,851 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    I set myself a solo 8 week challenge and run a solo 10k time trial at the end of it.

    On week 4 at the moment.
    Mileage for 1st 3 weeks was 40,46,50 miles
    Probably do 52 this week (all within a 2k radius) then drop back down for a recovery week next week

    Week is structured as
    Monday Lactate threshold run
    Tues Recovery Run
    Wed Aerobic Run
    Thursday VO2 max 5*1km
    Friday Recovery Run
    Sat LSR 90 mins
    Sunday Off

    After the 8 weeks was planning on starting the marathon plan for Berlin. Thats shelved now. Maybe Valencia or Malaga will go ahead in December.
    I think its too early to tell re October , Nov,dec smaller marathons.
    I think things will be much clearer by end of June what way everything is going.
    Germany have set a date of Oct 24th before any mass gatherings. Could we see them allowed in November/December.?

    Very hard to know what will happen. This could end quickly which I hope, or it could go on for a long time


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭IvoryTower


    Chivito550 wrote: »
    Time trials don't float my boat. They are pretty meaningless for sprinting. I need the races to stay motivated.

    I'll keep positive that there will be a stripped down season with a few later summer/autumn meets.

    You could do 300-600 TT's no bother, would be fun imo, no pressure and something to go back every couple of weeks and try to beat


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,695 ✭✭✭Chivito550


    IvoryTower wrote: »
    You could do 300-600 TT's no bother, would be fun imo, no pressure and something to go back every couple of weeks and try to beat

    No spikes, no track, having to do a standing start so I can start the watch, inaccurate distance over such a short distance (even 2m off is huge over 200m). Times would be fairly meaningless to me personally.

    600m is too long for me as I'm training for 100m/200m.

    I will do time trials, but that's not going to keep me motivated.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,164 ✭✭✭and still ricky villa


    I've 2 weeks left of an FTP block on the bike (for a September half IM I'm not optimistic about) then I'm doing something I've never done before and training for distances specifically rather than just throwing in the odd race during a marathon plan.

    I'm hopeful of Seville going ahead in Feb 2021 so should go into it with 5k, 10k, half marathon PBs in the bag.
    I'll work out the blocks next week once I'm back in work and allowed look at my laptop again


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,895 ✭✭✭Sacksian


    Just trying to take the opportunity to do more mileage than I would normally (all easy). The hope is to build a habit of higher volume that I can sustain when I reintroduce sessions / go back to club training. Before this month, 7 miles felt like a substantial run, but it's getting to be my daily average now. Would like to keep that up post-lockdown.

    Cannot do TTs. Find it hard to even get near race pace in training. Just can't get the adrenaline going for a solo run. I like a long lead-in to races, so not too worried about the blank calendar for now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭IvoryTower


    Honestly that sounds like a great idea, I think it suits me better to do sessions but I reckon most road runners would benefit massively by adjusting to higher mileage. I've gone from 40 to 50 and that'll do but if I was training for 1500 and upwards I'd be looking to go way higher


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