Question for cocker5

Roycropper63

Hello. I have a 7 year old blue down cocker bitch and she has been a great dog with my grandkids. They put ribbons etc in her fur and allows it. Site on couch with kids etc. Very well behaved. Temperament is well suited to kids.
Now eldest child has annoyed her parents into getting a dog. What's your thoughts on so called "cocker rage" in solid colours?
Many thanks

cocker5

Roycropper63 wrote: »

Hello. I have a 7 year old blue down cocker bitch and she has been a great dog with my grandkids. They put ribbons etc in her fur and allows it. Site on couch with kids etc. Very well behaved. Temperament is well suited to kids.
Now eldest child has annoyed her parents into getting a dog. What's your thoughts on so called "cocker rage" in solid colours?
Many thanks

Hey there!

I’m not an expert by no means (DBB May be able to offer advice here) but here’s my thoughts.. cocker rage while can be found in any colour it’s primarily linked to the red / golden cockers.

Here’s my experience with cockers and colourings.. know 2 blue roan males (different breeders) both fabulous gorgeous dogs.

We had a black cocker for 14 years and while I am biased he was the sweetest, kindest boy ever .. super sweet with kids (he never so much growled the entire time we had him)

My sisters kids wanted a cocker like my Cody so 7 years ago so they went the IKC Route and purchased a golden female named willow.., does she have cocker rage not that we know if ? BUT she is the total opposite to my Cody .. no patience, she resource guards (not food but her toys and bed) .. she’s temperamental.. and a times growls when someone walks by her bed even if they are not looking at her .. now with willow one of her parents was a show cocker and this may be the reason.. n

Please note my sister did all the same training methods I did with Cody .. hand feed etc.. part of the family, socialisation at a young age, training classes she also had Cody for company a good bit of the time ..

Also where I live (north wickow) we meet a few golden cockers on our walks and many are reactive (as many dogs are) but stil

Now please don’t get me wrong there are loads of fabulous golden cockers out there .. but from my experience they can be temperamental!

But if it were me and I was getting another cocker (which I’d love too at some point - instead we adopted a crazy springer) would I go for a golden? No I wouldn’t to be honest .. I’d stick with blue roan or black .., and do all the proper socializing methods etc .. but that’s what I would do ..

But all dogs are individual in-fairness..


Sorry if that’s not very helpful..

cocker5

Sorry I would say I’d be very picky with breeders (seek proof genetic testing for hereditary diseases etc), look to see both parents and ask about temperament .. stay away from show lines ..

borderlinemeath

Can I butt in?

I've met and handled a good few golden cockers. Maybe 20 or so. There's only 1, maybe 2 out of all the dogs I've met that I would consider of a sound enough temperament to be in a family environment with young kids (under 12).

Now, maybe, it's geographically where I am (North East) that I see a lot of them from the same local breeders. I can certainly say I see a lot of very similar traits, resource guarding, nervous aggression, short tempered dogs that can be fine once you know what to expect, but with kids around it's far from ideal. That isn't "cocker rage", it's just bad breeding. Generations of nervousness bred over and over, and nervousness is a trait that is very easily passed on to pups.


Any of the black or roan cockers I know, are far less reactive. That is purely anecdotal, and there's a far lower number of them, the goldens are by far the most popular.

DBB

I'll butt in too
I've worked with dozens and dozens of Cockers with aggression issues... as a breed, in my experience, they are overrepresented amongst dogs that exhibit resource guarding issues. Here's my caveat... I never noted any bigger prevalence in Golden Cockers over any other colouration.
For the record, the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors (APBC) occasionally compiles a case data report, collating a pile of data from their members on what breeds they see most, and for what problems. Cockers are by far the breed most commonly seen for "aggression towards known people"... more likely to need help for this category than even Westies, which is saying something The APBC report doesn't opine on coat colour.
My suspicion is that, as Borderlinemeath suggests, the breed has suffered terribly from really crap, aimless, profit-driven breeding over the past 10-15 years, and these poorly-bred dogs have flooded the gene pool in Ireland.
So, I would proceed with huge caution. Generally, dogs from working lines have good temperaments, and are usually put together better. They can be a bit wired though, needing a job to do.
At the very least, you want to make absolutely certain that the breeder has a major interest in the breed, that they give great consideration into what bloodlines they use, that they carry out genetic health tests to reduce the chances of breed-related health issues, that they rear their pups so that the pups spend at least a significant chunk of their daily life inside the home getting used to life in a home... therefore I'd prefer if the breeder had young children interacting with the pup daily, and if they invite visitors around to interact with pup... and critically.. that they do things to minimise the risk of switching on that damn possessive gene that Cockers have. First amongst these is that they feed each pup from a separate bowl, and supervise mealtimes to prevent food guarding behaviour.
They would ideally also be actively teaching the pups to love having all people approach them as they eat... by regularly approaching each feeding pup to add more food to their bowl. Toy-swapping exercises a distinct bonus too, rather than yelling at pup to grab forbidden items from them. These are all exercises you'd repeat ad nauseum after bringing pup home.

I didn't mean to go on at such length here, but that's what happens when you get me going:D

tritriagain

DBB wrote: »

I'll butt in too
I've worked with dozens and dozens of Cockers with aggression issues... as a breed, in my experience, they are overrepresented amongst dogs that exhibit resource guarding issues. Here's my caveat... I never noted any bigger prevalence in Golden Cockers over any other colouration.
For the record, the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors (APBC) occasionally compiles a case data report, collating a pile of data from their members on what breeds they see most, and for what problems. Cockers are by far the breed most commonly seen for "aggression towards known people"... more likely to need help for this category than even Westies, which is saying something The APBC report doesn't opine on coat colour.
My suspicion is that, as Borderlinemeath suggests, the breed has suffered terribly from really crap, aimless, profit-driven breeding over the past 10-15 years, and these poorly-bred dogs have flooded the gene pool in Ireland.
So, I would proceed with huge caution. Generally, dogs from working lines have good temperaments, and are usually put together better. They can be a bit wired though, needing a job to do.
At the very least, you want to make absolutely certain that the breeder has a major interest in the breed, that they give great consideration into what bloodlines they use, that they carry out genetic health tests to reduce the chances of breed-related health issues, that they rear their pups so that the pups spend at least a significant chunk of their daily life inside the home getting used to life in a home... therefore I'd prefer if the breeder had young children interacting with the pup daily, and if they invite visitors around to interact with pup... and critically.. that they do things to minimise the risk of switching on that damn possessive gene that Cockers have. First amongst these is that they feed each pup from a separate bowl, and supervise mealtimes to prevent food guarding behaviour.
They would ideally also be actively teaching the pups to love having all people approach them as they eat... by regularly approaching each feeding pup to add more food to their bowl. Toy-swapping exercises a distinct bonus too, rather than yelling at pup to grab forbidden items from them. These are all exercises you'd repeat ad nauseum after bringing pup home.

I didn't mean to go on at such length here, but that's what happens when you get me going:D

I have a black cocker and he is the gentlest soul I have ever seen. He runs like a mad man on his walks and lies on the couch ( the bed if he can) and craves snuggles the rest of the time. I have heard of the golden rage so that's we chose the black.

borderlinemeath

DBB wrote: »

I'll butt in too
I've worked with dozens and dozens of Cockers with aggression issues... as a breed, in my experience, they are overrepresented amongst dogs that exhibit resource guarding issues. Here's my caveat... I never noted any bigger prevalence in Golden Cockers over any other colouration.
For the record, the Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors (APBC) occasionally compiles a case data report, collating a pile of data from their members on what breeds they see most, and for what problems. Cockers are by far the breed most commonly seen for "aggression towards known people"... more likely to need help for this category than even Westies, which is saying something The APBC report doesn't opine on coat colour.
My suspicion is that, as Borderlinemeath suggests, the breed has suffered terribly from really crap, aimless, profit-driven breeding over the past 10-15 years, and these poorly-bred dogs have flooded the gene pool in Ireland.
So, I would proceed with huge caution. Generally, dogs from working lines have good temperaments, and are usually put together better. They can be a bit wired though, needing a job to do.
At the very least, you want to make absolutely certain that the breeder has a major interest in the breed, that they give great consideration into what bloodlines they use, that they carry out genetic health tests to reduce the chances of breed-related health issues, that they rear their pups so that the pups spend at least a significant chunk of their daily life inside the home getting used to life in a home... therefore I'd prefer if the breeder had young children interacting with the pup daily, and if they invite visitors around to interact with pup... and critically.. that they do things to minimise the risk of switching on that damn possessive gene that Cockers have. First amongst these is that they feed each pup from a separate bowl, and supervise mealtimes to prevent food guarding behaviour.
They would ideally also be actively teaching the pups to love having all people approach them as they eat... by regularly approaching each feeding pup to add more food to their bowl. Toy-swapping exercises a distinct bonus too, rather than yelling at pup to grab forbidden items from them. These are all exercises you'd repeat ad nauseum after bringing pup home.

I didn't mean to go on at such length here, but that's what happens when you get me going:D

It's good to know I'm not imagining things! I often get asked about breeds and which are best for family life, or even are there any breeds I am wary of. I always warn of cockers, given that so many I know are so quick to show teeth for various reasons such as bed guarding, food guarding, one will even go for the other dog in her household if that dog approaches while she's sitting beside the owner. I'm sure people are expecting me to tell them I'm wary of GSDs or staffies, but when I say that cute little cockers can be prone to behavioural problems they are surprised.

My worry is that a lot of the nervous lines have been used to cross breed into the fad of designer dogs. a good few cavapoos I have met have been very nervous, one I know is banned from 3 or so local groomers and a few others have food guarding issues. They don't seem just quite as guardy as pure bred cockers but the nervousness is evident and they are so popular.

mymo

borderlinemeath wrote: »

It's good to know I'm not imagining things! I often get asked about breeds and which are best for family life, or even are there any breeds I am wary of. I always warn of cockers, given that so many I know are so quick to show teeth for various reasons such as bed guarding, food guarding, one will even go for the other dog in her household if that dog approaches while she's sitting beside the owner. I'm sure people are expecting me to tell them I'm wary of GSDs or staffies, but when I say that cute little cockers can be prone to behavioural problems they are surprised.

My worry is that a lot of the nervous lines have been used to cross breed into the fad of designer dogs. a good few cavapoos I have met have been very nervous, one I know is banned from 3 or so local groomers and a few others have food guarding issues. They don't seem just quite as guardy as pure bred cockers but the nervousness is evident and they are so popular.

We had a blue roan cocker growing up (over 35 years ago) , he was amazing, very gentle, kids ages birth to 6 when we got him. But I would not recommend them as family dogs, I've known too many in recent years aggressive, I think partly from lack of exercise and training, but I've seen 3 really bad, so I would warn anyone off. They are a lovely breed but as said above the breed has suffered.
All those doodle type crosses I've met have health or behaviour issues bar one or two, and I meet a lot of them where I live as its popular touristy and walking area.
I do know 3 lovely schnauzer family dogs, and any i meet are fab little dogs. Would that be an option? Always research health issues and check with breeders what tests they do with parents.

Roycropper63

Thanks for all the replies. Mine must have a working dog somewhere in her because she loves the river and rabbits and rises the odd pheasant.
There are probably Springer's from shooting stock available but as I know from past dogs to say they are wired is an understatement.
Will pass on the info to the parents.
@ borderline. What's your nearest big town as this pup will be based near navan

borderlinemeath

Roycropper63 wrote: »

Thanks for all the replies. Mine must have a working dog somewhere in her because she loves the river and rabbits and rises the odd pheasant.
There are probably Springer's from shooting stock available but as I know from past dogs to say they are wired is an understatement.
Will pass on the info to the parents.
@ borderline. What's your nearest big town as this pup will be based near navan

I'm Drogheda, 30mins from Navan. A few of the dogs I know come from Cavan "breeders". Whether that's from actual breeders or the many licenced puppy farms in Cavan, I don't know for sure.

FWIW, I have red setters and they are brilliant with kids. One of mine was a bit barky at kids when he was younger, but having his own human sister has helped him a lot.

Roycropper63

Thanks for that. But I feel a setter would be too big. Thanks again

cocker5

Roycropper63 wrote: »

Thanks for that. But I feel a setter would be too big. Thanks again

Would you consider a springer?

We have our guy 15 weeks nearly now (he’s 18 months approx) and I’m a complete convert.. same energy if not a little more and goofyness of a cocker ... lots of similarities?

Our new guy is the sweetest little thing, amazing at fetch.. and super smart .. just an idea!

borderlinemeath

Roycropper63 wrote: »

Thanks for that. But I feel a setter would be too big. Thanks again

Here's the thing about small/medium sized dogs. They jump! Quite a lot, and it's usually tolerated by owners a bit more because they are small. I find when cocker spaniels jump on your legs - it really hurts! They aren't the smallest/lightest of breeds and along with staffies and french bulldogs - are divils for jumping, and throwing their weight behind the jump. Springer spaniels are far "softer" at jumping (if you know what I mean!) and a lot of the poodle mixes tend to jump softly as well as tapping your legs with their front paws (in fairness it's very cute if you don't mind jumping!) I have a 4yr old and she far prefers bigger dogs because they don't jump on her, as she's not that much taller than them.

Kids also tend to want to lift smaller dogs, which is always tolerated when they're puppies, but not so much when they grow into adult dogs. A lot of small dogs can get quite annoyed at kids who try and lift them when they aren't expecting it/don't want it. Dogs love to climb up and sit on your lap, or are happy to crawl over kids when they are rolling about on the floor, but sometimes when they are lifted or hugged (particularly from above) they feel smothered and a bit out of control, so it can end badly. So from that point of view, I would never discount a dog based on their size.

jimf

cocker5 wrote: »

Would you consider a springer?

We have our guy 15 weeks nearly now (he’s 18 months approx) and I’m a complete convert.. same energy if not a little more and goofyness of a cocker ... lots of similarities?

Our new guy is the sweetest little thing, amazing at fetch.. and super smart .. just an idea!

I wonder would he like a permanent move to limerick :D

I have room and will be getting another puppy shortly

must drop in to the wife or maybe daughter might

oh **** must paint the house first :eek::eek: