New setup freesat 4K/saorview system

AngeloArgue

I'm looking to install a new dish/aerial combo system. But I'm hoping to future proof the set up as best as possible.
With freesat introducing 4K HEVC, what set up would be best to combine it with the saorview signal?
Would a wideband LNB be the one to use?

If I wanted to have 3 tvs connected up, how would I go about wiring the system?
In my old house I installed a Multi LNB sat/aerial system using splitters and diplexers to feed 3 combo receivers.
I didn't have pause TV or recording from a transponder other than the one I'm watching. I believe that typically takes 2 separate LNB feeds. Does the wideband LNB eliminate that necessity? How do you distribute the wideband feed and combine it with the saorview feed?

AngeloArgue

Okay, did a little digging.
And I came across the dSCR/dCSS Unicable II system. is this system compatible with diplexers that mix in a terrestrial signal?
Are there any combo receivers compatible with this system which are linux based and support pvr and 4k?

Johnboy1951

I suggest Cat 6 distribution throughout with multipe outlets per room (*), all back to a central media press which could hold internet connection and also tuners, and a server to store and distribute the media over the Cat 6.
* one never knows the future use of the rooms or the positioning of furniture & TVs.


Very light and cheap devices are capable of doing the server job.
Smart TVs or small client boxes at TV to display the media.

There are several threads on the subject in the 'HTPC & Media Centre' section of boards.

The Cush

AngeloArgue wrote: »

I'm looking to install a new dish/aerial combo system. But I'm hoping to future proof the set up as best as possible.
With freesat introducing 4K HEVC, what set up would be best to combine it with the saorview signal?
Would a wideband LNB be the one to use?

If I wanted to have 3 tvs connected up, how would I go about wiring the system?
In my old house I installed a Multi LNB sat/aerial system using splitters and diplexers to feed 3 combo receivers.
I didn't have pause TV or recording from a transponder other than the one I'm watching. I believe that typically takes 2 separate LNB feeds. Does the wideband LNB eliminate that necessity? How do you distribute the wideband feed and combine it with the saorview feed?

A wideband LNB setup requires 2 cables from the LNB to a compatible receiver like SkyQ or the new Freesat receiver but the Saorview feed cannot be combined with either wideband satellite feed.

My suggestion would be a dSCR multiswitch in the attic, fed by 4 co-ax cables from a quad/quattro LNB on the dish and a feed from the aerial for Saorview. Saorview and satellite are combined down a single cable and split at the TV/STB point.

The dSCR multiswitch can feed a 12 tuner SkyQ receiver and the new 4 tuner Freesat receiver via a single cable, the switch can also feed standard receivers in the usual way, single/twin cable. Available in 4/8/12/16 output models.

Triax multiswitches - https://www.triax.uk/products/satellite/multiswitches/dscr-multiswitches
A wideband LNB will also work with 3 of the Triax multiswitches using just 2 co-ax cables from the dish.

AngeloArgue

Would this work?

Unicable II LNB and Aerial joined next to mast using diplexer, single cable enters attic.
Feed is split using a DC pass splitter suitable for unicable, each feed goes to a diplexer wall plate where it is seperated into satellite and aerial again.
A receiver like the Gigablue uhd ue 4k that uses fbc is connected to the wall plate.

AngeloArgue

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I suggest Cat 6 distribution throughout with multipe outlets per room (*), all back to a central media press which could hold internet connection and also tuners, and a server to store and distribute the media over the Cat 6.
* one never knows the future use of the rooms or the positioning of furniture & TVs.


Very light and cheap devices are capable of doing the server job.
Smart TVs or small client boxes at TV to display the media.

There are several threads on the subject in the 'HTPC & Media Centre' section of boards.

Very interesting set up.

The Gigablue UE 4K has a SAT>IP server built in. If I was to have a nVidia Shield as a client what app should I use?

AngeloArgue

The Cush wrote: »

A wideband LNB setup requires 2 cables from the LNB to a compatible receiver like SkyQ or the new Freesat receiver but the Saorview feed cannot be combined with either wideband satellite feed.

My suggestion would be a dSCR multiswitch in the attic, fed by 4 co-ax cables from a quad/quattro LNB on the dish and a feed from the aerial for Saorview. Saorview and satellite are combined down a single cable and split at the TV/STB point.

The dSCR multiswitch can feed a 12 tuner SkyQ receiver and the new 4 tuner Freesat receiver via a single cable, the switch can also feed standard receivers in the usual way, single/twin cable. Available in 4/8/12/16 output models.

Triax multiswitches - https://www.triax.uk/products/satellite/multiswitches/dscr-multiswitches
A wideband LNB will also work with 3 of the Triax multiswitches using just 2 co-ax cables from the dish.

I'm definitely more interested in the Unicable II setup with a fcb tuner. Most likely the Inverto Unicable II LNB 1/32 and a Gigablue UE 4K receiver. It looks pretty solid, maybe not as good as a Vu+ ultimo 4K but it's almost half the price and well supported in terms of enigma on Polish and German forums.
Also the Unicable II requires only one line from the satellite and I'm looking to keep the wiring as simple as possible and the cost down.

dubrov

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Would this work?

Unicable II LNB and Aerial joined next to mast using diplexer, single cable enters attic.
Feed is split using a DC pass splitter suitable for unicable, each feed goes to a diplexer wall plate where it is seperated into satellite and aerial again.
A receiver like the Gigablue uhd ue 4k that uses fbc is connected to the wall plate.

A few tips.
Unicable feeds can be split like aerial feeds. So you don't need to have a direct feed from the satellite dish / switch to each receiver.

The receiver will need to be Unicable compatible. Pretty much all satellite boxes will be. Televisions less so. Check the specs.

Be aware there are two versions of Unicable (I and II). The difference is the number of feeds that can be sent down the cable (4 vs 32 I think)
Unicable can also be combined with aerial feeds.

So I think your proposed setup should work fine.
The main potential stumbling block is to make sure the receivers are Unicable compatible. The Gigablue definitely is and with the FBC tuners you can have it perform many simultaneous sat recordings (8 I think) off a single cable feed.

Also SkyQ uses its own version of Unicable so won't work with this setup.
If you need the potential for SkyQ, consider the quattro feed to multiswitch setup mentioned by STB.

You should also give consideration to JohnBoys proposal which will distribute the signal over the LAN. I am pretty sure that the Gigablue only has SAT>IP client functionality so you would need additional hardware to serve up the sat and terrestrial signals over the network.

Johnboy1951

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Very interesting set up.

The Gigablue UE 4K has a SAT>IP server built in. If I was to have a nVidia Shield as a client what app should I use?

Presumably you would not have such a device as the Gigablue in a media press, but at a TV point, so the coax cables would need to reach there to supply the tuners.

Not what I was describing really.
I more had in mind tuners in the media press only - something like a Telestar Digibit R1 or equivalent.

dubrov

I think he was thinking the sat/terrestrial feed would got to the Gigablue which would then serve up the channels over the network using SAT>IP to various clients (like the NVidia Shield).

I actually see there is a SAT>IP server plugin for Enigma2. It looks a little flaky though with many reporting issues.
I think it would be better buying a dedicated device if this is the chosen route

AngeloArgue

dubrov wrote: »

I actually see there is a SAT>IP server plugin for Enigma2. It looks a little flaky though with many reporting issues.
I think it would be better buying a dedicated device if this is the chosen route

Gigablue have a propriety SAT>IP system called Multiroom



Would installing an enigma 2 image disable functionality that is in the original unmodded box?

Johnboy1951

AngeloArgue wrote: »

Gigablue have a propriety SAT>IP system called Multiroom

[IMG]h ttps://wiki.gigablue.de/images/1/12/Multiroom1.png[/IMG]

Would installing an enigma 2 image disable functionality that is in the original unmodded box?

Probably but you could most likely use a free and open replacement.

Where do you envisage putting the Gigablue? In the attic like the pic?

I, most definitely would not depend on wifi signals for my media viewing in the long term. Would be OK for testing and temporary, but it is too easily disrupted for a permanent solution, IMO.

This shows what I did a couple of years ago.
I have since simplified it, removing the Sky box and the HDMI>DVB-T devices.
All devices are ethernet cabled - Cat5e.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108671297&postcount=41



The only other change I have made is the small devices in use.
I like to 'play' with cheap Android gear, and run Linux on them where possible to get the best from them, although they are perfectly adequate running Android, so I do at times change device 'just to see'.

AngeloArgue

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Where do you envisage putting the Gigablue? In the attic like the pic?

Nah, ha ha

I'd be networking it with ethernet cable to the router in my living room. They'd be side by side so I don't envisage miles of cable clutter.
I'm still thinking of using old fashioned tv aerial/sat wall plates in my living room and bedrooms. But the SAT>IP setup has intrigued me. I have a nvidia shield that I'm using and an old MXIII 4K lying around.
I was thinking of getting another receiver at a later date for my bedroom, maybe something like the zGemma H7S (I'd really have to look into compatability first), but using the MXIII 4K as a client in the meantime.

dubrov

I'd be careful of tying yourself into the proprietary Gigablue protocol. Replacing one of the boxes could be problematic in a few years if needed. JohnBoys setup would be much more flexible for distributing TV channels over the LAN as there are many devices/apps that would be compatible.

I don't know about making it work on other than the standard Gigablue software. I have a Gigablue UHD UE 4K runnign OpenVix but can't see anything in the menu about SAT>IP or Gigablue client in the menus.
I'd be surprised if there wasn't a way of making it work though given the standard Gigablue OS is complete muck and nobody uses it. Both would be linux based as well.

Another thing to consider is that many TVs have built in Freesat/Saorview and/or IPTV apps.
So depending on your current Satellite/Aerial/TV setup, you may not need to buy as much hardware as you think.

dubrov

Also, I just read this in your first post

In my old house I installed a Multi LNB sat/aerial system using splitters and diplexers to feed 3 combo receivers.
I didn't have pause TV or recording from a transponder other than the one I'm watching.

This was probably related to the number of tuners you had in the receiver. What was the model?

The combos probably only had 1 satellite tuner meaning you could only watch/record one satellite transponder at a time. If you want flexibility to record any channel while watching another you'll need 2 tuners. Using a Unicable II LNB with an FBC tuner will give you more satellite tuners than you could ever use (8 I think).

AngeloArgue

This is from another forum:

As long as have you all the bouquets on the main box GigaUE 4K then use C/S (client server mode) in OpenViX (menu/Setup/tuner setup) on a client receiver e.g. Vu+ Zero or Zgemma i55plus .(no tuners needed)
At boot automatically picks up bouquets and EPG and your wife can watch 19.2E without issues.

No need for multiroom

It does seem that Multiroom is dependant on having their own brand clients. I found this badly translated manual:
https://gigablue.de/wp-content/uploads/howto/Mutiroom_Configuration_eng_16062015.pdf

Looks like it doesn't follow the SAT>IP protocol even though they advertise it:
https://gigablue.de/portfolio-item/gigablue-uhd-ue-4k-2/

Is there still away to stream channels from the receiver to an android box loaded with kodi? Anyway to share recordings over the network?

@Dubrov Seeing as you have the box I'm interested in would you recommend it?

dubrov

There are loads of client options for SAT>IP. Most smart TVs have in-built apps that can play the channels. KODI will do it. Android have about 20 IPTV apps that will play it also.
Check through JohnBoy's old posts. I remember he had a solid setup all running fine.

On the Gigablue UHD UE 4K, I am not really using it to its full ability yet as I am in the process of moving and am currently only using the IPTV features of it. It has run smoothly or the last 4 months. I haven't tried the sat>ip server plugin but there is a Gigablue app that runs fine on my Android phone anyway. For recordings, I just record to the Gigablue internal hard drive and use Minidlna to make the content available to other TVs on the network.

In saying that I have setup a GigaBlue UHD TRIO 4K for my Dad which was about half the price of the UE. It has a single sat and terrestrial feed and some IPTV channels. All runs flawlessly with the same OpenVix interface so apart from the FBC tuners, I am not really sure what the extra gets you with the UE. It has also been around for a few years so unles you need the FBC tuners, there are likely much better options.

When I move, the setup will be a Satellite dish with quattro feed and aerial feeding this multiswitch (bought for £50 on Ebay). This will support Sky, Unicable or legacy satellite receivers if needed. I guess I will need a diplexer to split out the terrestrial feed at the client end.

Johnboy1951

AngeloArgue wrote: »

The Gigablue UE 4K has a SAT>IP server built in. If I was to have a nVidia Shield as a client what app should I use?

It is difficult to know how you envisage the division of functions. Maybe you prefer to have everything in one device.

I prefer separates.
Unicable II LNB to suitable tuner box for DVB-S/2
Terrestrial Aerial to suitable tuner box for DVB-T/2
Tvheadend server on tiny cheap box
8 port gigabit network switch

The above devices are in a 'media press' and completely out of sight.

That provides everything except the Client/TV/Display end of things. Service is provided throughout the premises, on the LAN. It can even provide services on the internet, if required, for holidays or when travelling.

Access to the Tvheadend server, in my case, is through Kodi and its tvheadend PVR client addon.
So smart TVs, laptops, PCs, tablets etc can access everything.

If the TV is not 'smart' then a tiny client device, similar to the tvheadend server device, will provide all that is required, including 4K playback of media.

We all have our own preferences and limitations (both physical and monetary) and I much prefer separate devices (throwback to my now ancient audio days I guess). I also like to get best value.

When I initially started out I built a HTPC (was comfortable building a PC) and spent close to €700 on the device, in a nice big case suited to living room use with TBS tuners. It sat under the main TV.
I soon saw the error of my ways. It was monolithic and not at all easy to alter to suit advances in technology. It required a degree of cooling, particularly if other clients connected, so was not silent. It is gone now thankfully.

On the new set up I paid approx €30 per small device for clients and tvheadend server.
Tuners were always costly and the separates cost about €300 in all I think.
Add in a network switch so that all devices could 'talk' to each other and the LAN and that was it.
If any one device goes down the rest remains available.
The client devices and the server device are interchangeable.

I can replace or upgrade any component in the system without needing to change the whole lot.

Essentially it suits me and the way I approach things.
It would be a horrible setup for others.

Nonetheless it is good to know/be aware of alternatives out there, just in case one might suit you.

AngeloArgue

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It is difficult to know how you envisage the division of functions. Maybe you prefer to have everything in one device.

I like the idea of having the receiver at hand under my TV. Presently I'm only planning on buying the one decently featured receiver. And if I was to expand in the future with more receivers I would connect them all to the same network.

That being said I have been looking into SAT>IP on enigma receivers with fbc tuners. It seems you can install the minisatip plugin and you can allocate some of the tuners to it. My old redundant android tv box (Amlogic S812?) can run a version of LibreELEC 9.0 which I believe supports ports of tvheadend. The android box would be a lot more powerful than say a raspberry pi, and supports both H.265 and 4K.

I'm thinking of giving feeds from an E2 receiver running minisatip to the android box running tvheadend which would act as both server and client. I'm wondering if this set up is feasible?
As I said before SAT>IP is not essential to me. I'd just like to play around with what I have

Johnboy1951

AngeloArgue wrote: »

.......

I'm thinking of giving feeds from an E2 receiver running minisatip to the android box running tvheadend which would act as both server and client. I'm wondering if this set up is feasible?
As I said before SAT>IP is not essential to me. I'd just like to play around with what I have

I would expect that can be done.

It does seem like it includes an extra step which just might be avoided - minisap.

I would probably prefer to have Tvheadend server on the E2, if that would work.

I do not know if a suitable Tvheadend server plugin is available for the E2, but have a recollection of opkg/Entware having Tvheadend server available for installation. Does the E2 already have Opkg capabilities? If not then I guess it could be installed.

You might get further information in "HTP & Media Centre" area of Boards.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=643

Have fun!

For some real fun try building it yourself
https://tvheadend.org/boards/4/topics/34921
.